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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| David wrote: | | Does that make him a bad politician, necessarily? How do you know what the people you vote for are like in private? |
First of all he isn't a politician he was merely a candidate.
It doesn't matter what a politician is like in private to me as one can only judge them on the merits of what they display or say publicly.
Tone might be a likeable bloke in private but comes off as a complete tool in public to me.
Politicians or potential ones have to wear the consequences of there actions and if people decided to use it against them so be it.
It's democracy.
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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What I find dumb about these scandals and the reaction to them is that they provide such little information on the person. We don't know this bloke from Adam. We don't know if he whacks his kids regularly or if this was just a one-off brain fade. We've seen 1 minute out of 30,000,000 in his life—from a distance—and we seriously think we can now form an opinion on what he's like? It all just seems so primitive.
The way these stories play out isn't a function of democracy at all, I'd argue. It's about culture; a culture that can't stand ambiguity, in which things have to be black or white. I don't think it has to be that way.
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The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| David wrote: | | Not me. I think it's ridiculous. As if any of us have never hurt someone else physically or emotionally. What difference does it make that it happened in public? Do we have so many talented politicians on hand that we can just get rid of every single one that flips out in public, or has an affair, or sends a politically incorrect text message? He doesn't sound like the greatest parent in the world, to say the least, but I don't see what that has to do with his ability at developing and communicating policy or the price of eggs. |
I doubt regardless of how good his political abilities are/were it was going to save him from this. I think most would forgive an accidental text, a flip out in public, hell even getting drunk and being a dickhead but I think there's a few areas that there's never going to be forgiveness.
I don't know who he is, and don't follow politics but public or privately that's just wrong to do to a kid. Regardless of the side of the fence you are on the smacking your child debate that's still child abuse.
I have seen worse than that video over the years when I was a kid I had seen many kids that were beaten pretty badly in public for being, well mischievous but that doesn't change what it is.
He can be the best politician in the world, what he did is still wrong and should be punished by the law.
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Ðavâgé
https://www.facebook.com/davehardingphotography
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| swoop42 wrote: | I wouldn't vote for him.
Pouring water on a baby is just bizarre and smacking a toddler in the head isn't called for.
If he's willing to do that in public what's he like in private?
Looks to have short fuse. |
Yep that's what I always wonder, imagine what they are doing at yome where no one can see it.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | What I find dumb about these scandals and the reaction to them is that they provide such little information on the person. We don't know this bloke from Adam. We don't know if he whacks his kids regularly or if this was just a one-off brain fade. We've seen 1 minute out of 30,000,000 in his life—from a distance—and we seriously think we can now form an opinion on what he's like? It all just seems so primitive.
The way these stories play out isn't a function of democracy at all, I'd argue. It's about culture; a culture that can't stand ambiguity, in which things have to be black or white. I don't think it has to be that way. |
Yeah well you may be right, but since you think culture should allow things like incest and a certain amount of pedophilia, your vote don't count! I wouldn't vote for him, and I hope social services pay a visit.
By the way. You can tell it wasn't a brain fade, it looks far more like a normal reaction from him, that's the scary bit.
And I'll wade in a tad further. This no smacking shit. A lot of smacking isn't necessary if parents discipline their kids appropriately. You don't take a three year old to a place like that, give them nothing to fill their time, and expect them to behave. They are three, they have minus 10 attention span. Give them something to do, pay some attention to them, divert their attention from the wrong thing. If that fails, warn them, at least twice, finally, when all else fails, a quick smack on the bum, I'm talking smack, not hit, will not $£$%^%%$ kill them. My girls are just fine thankyou, two well adjusted, polite, happy, well behaved, previously smacked, young ladies. And it ain't luck folks. It's called parenting.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Catherine Deveny is someone I hold in utter contempt, can't $£$%^%%$ stand her and just her name make me start to rage but in this case... she's right (I feel dirty just saying that).
I have smacked my seven year old twice, and neither time left so much as a red mark or handprint. Once when she was close to doing herself some real damage (can't remember if it was touching something hot or reaching for a spider... something like that anyway), and once when she was hurting an animal (too young to know better, was having a toddler tantrum at the cat). My philosophy is that pain compliance (because that's what it is) should only be used as a last resort in matters of personal safety and never once a child is old enough to be reasoned with. Being annoying should never result in a smack, nor should bad behaviour, talking back, not complying with instruction etc.
Yesterday she ran across the road because she saw her friend and didn't look. All I did was raise my voice, tell her it was dangerous and never to do that again. Once a kid is old enough for this kind of message to get through, I don't see the value in causing pain as some kind of 'lesson'. Of course, my daughter isn't a 24/7 brat like some kids appear to be, I can extend some sympathy to parents who give those little shits a whack, but I suspect they got that way due to bad parenting in 90% of cases anyway. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| The Prototype wrote: | | He can be the best politician in the world, what he did is still wrong and should be punished by the law. |
Well, that's a different matter entirely. In any case, the police have already declined to press charges.
It is an interesting question, though: should the law really be called in every time a family member slaps another one over the head? I don't know about anyone else here, but I'd have been in juvenile detention if that was the case. As for my parents... 
Of course, I do think domestic violence should be policed, and I don't think recurrent physical abuse should be waved away as "just a family thing". At the same time, I don't think we can or should police every slap and hit. If for no other reason, we'd all probably end up in court.
| think positive wrote: | | Yeah well you may be right, but since you think culture should allow things like incest and a certain amount of pedophilia, your vote don't count! |
Do you mean I support child abuse? If so, that's certainly news to me. You probably shouldn't make such assertions lightly.
Re: the rest of your post, you're one of this boards's biggest advocates for corporal punishment. Every social ill seems to be the result of someone not getting smacked as a child. I understand that you see a difference between smacking and this, but isn't it such a fine line?
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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i was referring to your views re the age of consent.
No, today's ills are caused by lack of discipline, not necessarily smacking. Teaching children right from wrong, with instruction and setting a good example yourself. Something so sadly lacking in society full stop these days. Bad manners, lack of respect for others, lack of self respect.
But when I see a mother try and control a kid in a shop that's just being and out and out brat, and reasoning or distraction or threats isn't working, I'm not calling the cops if she taps his backside.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| David wrote: | | Does that make him a bad politician, necessarily? How do you know what the people you vote for are like in private? |
It shows me a man that easily looses control, a man with little respect or care for his son. This is child abuse and assault. At times our children can push us to our limits but this is a baby doing what typical babies do at this age. These are not qualities I want to see in a person in public office.
It is also interesting when reviewing the video that the wife does not react. Is that due to the fact that this is a common place event and an accepted form of treatment handed out by her husband or does she not react out of fear of her husband. Neither send the right message.
If this is the best we can offer up for public office we are in more trouble than I thought. |
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mandy 
Joined: 03 Jun 2001
Location: Glen Iris
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| Wokko wrote: | Catherine Deveny is someone I hold in utter contempt, can't $£$%^%%$ stand her and just her name make me start to rage but in this case... she's right (I feel dirty just saying that).
I have smacked my seven year old twice, and neither time left so much as a red mark or handprint. Once when she was close to doing herself some real damage (can't remember if it was touching something hot or reaching for a spider... something like that anyway), and once when she was hurting an animal (too young to know better, was having a toddler tantrum at the cat). My philosophy is that pain compliance (because that's what it is) should only be used as a last resort in matters of personal safety and never once a child is old enough to be reasoned with. Being annoying should never result in a smack, nor should bad behaviour, talking back, not complying with instruction etc.
Yesterday she ran across the road because she saw her friend and didn't look. All I did was raise my voice, tell her it was dangerous and never to do that again. Once a kid is old enough for this kind of message to get through, I don't see the value in causing pain as some kind of 'lesson'. Of course, my daughter isn't a 24/7 brat like some kids appear to be, I can extend some sympathy to parents who give those little shits a whack, but I suspect they got that way due to bad parenting in 90% of cases anyway. |
Excellent post and I agree completely.
In 18 years I've smacked my daughter twice. Once when she ran off in a car park when she was about 2. It scared the shit out of me and I didn't know how else to immediately make her understand not to do that. The second time she was about 7 and refused to get dressed in the clothes I put out for her and threw a tantrum. It had just taken us 30 hours to travel to Germany and I was tired and snapped. Still makes me feel uneasy to this day.
I don't believe any child under 3 or 4 can be "naughty". They don't have the capability to really understand. And once they do there are much better ways to teach them lessons. No TV, no computer, no dessert, early to bed....
Resorting to physical punishment says more about the parent than it does about the misbehaviour of a child.
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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TP, I have gone further down the journey of bring up children and I fully endorse your comment. My wife and I are very proud of both of our children who are now adults. Both are nice people, responsible, well educated, balanced with a good work ethic. It takes a lifetime of effort and influence as well as a bit of luck to get to this point. I am certain that you don't get there by hitting your kids around the head.
I spent a couple of days recently around the Dandenong magistrates court. It is a showcase of what can go wrong and what is wrong with our society. I came away horrified and wanted a good shower.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | i was referring to your views re the age of consent. |
If so, you're most certainly wrong. As far as I know, we hold the same views on that.
(Not sure why we're discussing this here.)
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Reductionism. |
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The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| David wrote: | Well, that's a different matter entirely. In any case, the police have already declined to press charges.
It is an interesting question, though: should the law really be called in every time a family member slaps another one over the head? I don't know about anyone else here, but I'd have been in juvenile detention if that was the case. As for my parents...
Of course, I do think domestic violence should be policed, and I don't think recurrent physical abuse should be waved away as "just a family thing". At the same time, I don't think we can or should police every slap and hit. If for no other reason, we'd all probably end up in court.
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Why would family members be slapping each other about the head, or hitting each other?
That cannot really be a healthy family environment if people have to resort to hitting each other during an argument, or whatever.
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https://www.facebook.com/davehardingphotography
https://www.facebook.com/Davage |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Certainly not if it's habitual, but who hasn't hit a sibling once or twice?
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