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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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Joel 
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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I know someone who works on the roads on a machine. Gets an extra $16,000 in "allowances" for various things, one is called an "inconvenience allowance". Gets paid over $90k a year. A lot of money.
Thousands losing their jobs in workplaces because businesses can no longer afford to operate in Australia.
Some how I think it is time for a rethink for unions and government. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Then you get companies like the one that did the Westgate last year that don't pay well and you get crap jobs done by crappy employees. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Joel wrote: | I know someone who works on the roads on a machine. Gets an extra $16,000 in "allowance" for various things, one is called an "inconvenience allowance". Gets paid over $90k a year. A lot of money.
Thousands losing their jobs in workplaces because businesses can no longer afford to operate in Australia.
Some how I think it is time for a rethink for unions and government. |
A re-think is good AS LONG AS it is fair to workers and it hasn't got any hidden agendas to make workers lose work conditions and benefits that the unions all fought very hard for.
With experience of being in the workforce unbroken since 1979, I find it very hard to trust a right winged government to preserve my working conditions and benifits.
In fairness, I would also LOVE to see a re-think on the working benefits and coinditions of the Employer lobby. The results of such a investigation might or might not surprise people, as I reckon you could save stacks more in $ than picking on the workers and cutting their benefits. I happen to know of Employees whose expenditure is way over a reasonable limit, FAR more than any "inconvenience allowance" or such slim pickings, using various forms of tax lurks as an escape playing normal taxes.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Joel wrote: | I know someone who works on the roads on a machine. Gets an extra $16,000 in "allowances" for various things, one is called an "inconvenience allowance". Gets paid over $90k a year. A lot of money.
Thousands losing their jobs in workplaces because businesses can no longer afford to operate in Australia.
Some how I think it is time for a rethink for unions and government. |
Except the aggregate economic data runs in the complete opposite direction to the supposed point of the anecdote you decided to select for us. What do you think the chart below says about your anecdote and economic analysis based thereon?
It says the claim is nonsense and anyone pushing policy based on it is a liar, which we know Abbott and co. are. In your case, you just haven't done your homework, you naughty boy.
And if you're wondering where those lines end up, real wage growth in Australia is the lowest it has been for 17 years. See: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/real-wages-growth-worst-in-17-years-20140521-38p5j.html
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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It's a hard one. We currently operate in a system that implies we have a labour shortage with a high minimum wage, generous entitlements and various penalties and loadings. This is fine when we have full or close to full employment, but at the moment all these things do is price the lower end of the employment market out of reach for many who can't find work. If you had to live on $250 a week (Newstart) then tell me you wouldn't take a job that paid, say $12 an hour. At the moment that employer who had a job that was only worth employing someone at that lower wage simply doesn't hire anyone because if they do they'll get fines or prosecuted.
I wouldn't be against some loosening of minimum wage laws, make any below 'minimum' jobs not tied to centrelink jobhunting requirements (i.e you don't HAVE to take a below minimum wage job to avoid losing welfare) and have it as a voluntary contract between employer and employee.
Personally I've had my best conditions and pay under enterprise bargaining and had my worst experiences dealing with unions and all their bullshit. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Yet another personal anecdote. It is actually an easy one: Workers are more productive but are getting less. Someone else is raiding the cookie jar; go and make them accountable rather than fawning over their marvellousnes and falling for their propaganda. The data isn't lying; they are.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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You can't tell your workers to earn less when you pull up in a Brand New BMW.
The Major Retailers are the one's complaining, they wanted 7 day a week trading. They screwed all the small businesses and forced them out of the market. And now they say it costs to much. We have restaurants bitching an moaning about the cost of employment, paying $60 an hour on public Holidays. They don't mention than 300% mark up on their alcohol. Cutting wages will simply introduce low standard workers. But the big thing all these idiots forget if Joe Bloggs has $100 disposable income and you cut his wage so he has only $50 disposable income that means he will spend 50% less.
My big beef is none of these idiots who support cuts in wages do not talk about cutting costs in the cost of living such as basic utilities.
When the Politicians and CEO's take a pay cut, when slime like Gina cut back their wealth then I will say let's do it. At the moment it's the Rich telling the poor to take less so they can have more. Well *uck you.
Last edited by Culprit on Fri Jan 23, 2015 2:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Joel wrote: | I know someone who works on the roads on a machine. Gets an extra $16,000 in "allowances" for various things, one is called an "inconvenience allowance". Gets paid over $90k a year. A lot of money.
Thousands losing their jobs in workplaces because businesses can no longer afford to operate in Australia.
Some how I think it is time for a rethink for unions and government. |
The thing is, Joel, that you can absolutely cast-iron guarantee that what this government does won't impact your mate on the road machine too much, but will hammer lots of poor bastards waiting on tables and cleaning toilets for $16.87 an hour. Lock that in and put your house on it, if you can afford a house. The "benefits" of any "reforms" this government makes will flow strictly and purely to those who need them least.
I agree with you that a rethink would be a damn good thing and is long overdue, but we won't see anything like a "rethink" under this government, just more and more of their ruthless policy of hammering the poor.
This is not a time for "rethinking"; that just provides more excuses for Abbott's addiction to brutal class warfare. Rethinking is important but it needs to wait until we have a government open to genuine fair reform. Right now, the key task is defending our economy, our freedoms, and our way of life against the 19th Century wrecking gang in Canberra. Change will come and should come, but the first task is to preserve as much of Australia as we can so that there is still something worthwhile to reform after the wrecking gang get booted out of office.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Great post, Culprit.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Joel
Joined: 23 Mar 1999
Location: Mornington Peninsula
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| pietillidie wrote: | | What do you think the chart below says about your anecdote and economic analysis based thereon? |
I didn't say every worker is paid too much.
It's just that there are many being over paid compared to others who are skilled workers.
On the other hand (of course) there are many people who are underpaid in their jobs. I'm not debating that. I'm just saying that we need to rethink our system when people can earn $16k in allowances (on top of a wage of $80k) in an unskilled job. Clearly this sort of system is not sustainable. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Can you remember the website? |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Culprit wrote: | You can't tell your workers to earn less when you pull up in a Brand New BMW.
The Major Retailers are the one's complaining, they wanted 7 day a week trading. They screwed all the small businesses and forced them out of the market. And now they say it costs to much. We have restaurants bitching an moaning about the cost of employment, paying $60 an hour on public Holidays. They don't mention than 300% mark up on their alcohol. Cutting wages will simply introduce low standard workers. But the big thing all these idiots forget if Joe Bloggs has $100 disposable income and you cut his wage so he has only $50 disposable income that means he will spend 50% less.
My big beef is none of these idiots who support cuts in wages do not talk about cutting costs in the cost of living such as basic utilities.
When the Politicians and CEO's take a pay cut, when slime like Gina cut back their wealth then I will say let's do it. At the moment it's the Rich telling the poor to take less so they can have more. Well *uck you. |
Bravo!!
Stands and applauds loudly. 
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| Joel wrote: | I know someone who works on the roads on a machine. Gets an extra $16,000 in "allowances" for various things, one is called an "inconvenience allowance". Gets paid over $90k a year. A lot of money.
Thousands losing their jobs in workplaces because businesses can no longer afford to operate in Australia.
Some how I think it is time for a rethink for unions and government. |
I know someone too that drives a petty machine that any monkey can drive, no experience required hey Joel. They miss Family Birthdays, they miss Christmas with their families. They work Sundays, they work at Nights so the motoring public are not inconvenienced travelling to work. He has no choice but to work, yes he earns a lot of money but he gives away plenty. He would take a 20% pay cut if it meant he was home with his family and worked normal hours. Walk a mile in their shoes. |
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