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Royal Commission into Domestic Violence

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Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:43 am
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But what? But not all of them? How much more could it be?
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1061 



Joined: 06 Sep 2013


PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:13 am
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David wrote:
Most certainly, but as I was saying, there's more to this issue than just victimhood. Expert opinion is absolutely vital.


Expert opinion is only worth what they charge!
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:37 am
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David wrote:
think positive wrote:
I'm sure there is more hidden male victims, same as with rape. But that's another problem, and needs to be dealt with another way. As for bringing the family court into it, giving men an apparently valid excuse for violence, well the mind boggles.


Is male victimisation really "another problem"? Domestic violence is domestic violence, whoever the perpetrator and whoever the victim. It all needs to be dealt with seriously.

On the second part, I think we need to get beyond "excuse" rhetoric, particularly on this topic. If we want to lessen the incidence of domestic violence, we need to be addressing all of its causes, and that has to start with what's causing the perpetrators to act violently in the first place (whether that be trauma, mental illness, dysfunctional relationships or general unhappiness). If men are being treated poorly by family courts and social services, and this is a significant factor in the incidence of domestic abuse, then of course that's going to be a factor worth addressing.

This royal commission will undoubtedly focus on matters like legal responses to domestic violence, effective reporting, intervention, therapeutic support for victims and so on. But if it's going to achieve anything of significance, its primary concern must be exploring the causes of domestic violence and developing stronger prevention mechanisms.


Male victimisation is not what I meant, I meant males not coming forward and reporting, totally different thing.

As for the rest, my dad was a spoilt only child, allowed to get away with treating his parents like dirt, and he was always big enough to fight his way out of anything, he's nothing but a big bully. As for the family court thing, my take on the commission is the abuse being looked into is occurring in the home, long before it gets to court. So yes, different subject.

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Tannin Capricorn

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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:01 am
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1061 wrote:
David wrote:
But if it's going to achieve anything of significance, its primary concern must be exploring the causes of domestic violence and developing stronger prevention mechanisms.


Hopefully the RC will bring in real people who have been on the receiving end of DV rather than a bunch of wanna be jock/jockets who think they know it all but have never had a hand raised in anger against them.


THat's what they do. They put victims in the witness box, hundreds of them, and they hear evidence. The example of the Church Abuse Royal Commission has been there before us for months and months, and the Bushfire RC before that. Haven't you been paying attention?.

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:44 pm
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Tannin wrote:
1061 wrote:
David wrote:
But if it's going to achieve anything of significance, its primary concern must be exploring the causes of domestic violence and developing stronger prevention mechanisms.


Hopefully the RC will bring in real people who have been on the receiving end of DV rather than a bunch of wanna be jock/jockets who think they know it all but have never had a hand raised in anger against them.


THat's what they do. They put victims in the witness box, hundreds of them, and they hear evidence. The example of the Church Abuse Royal Commission has been there before us for months and months, and the Bushfire RC before that. Haven't you been paying attention?.


Isn't all that information already there though? I assume that the way these find these people to interview them is because they have been recorded somewhere as being a victim, which means they should have been interviewed multiple times already by Police, Social Workers, DHS, etc. All the information you could ever need, plus more, has already been recorded and is sitting there waiting for someone to do something constructive with it.

So we start from scratch and interview people again? Confused

Sounds like a great way to avoid doing anything by pretending to be doing something.

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:48 pm
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Oh, and separate point, I don't buy the argument about needing to include violence against Men in this specifically.

I think the terms of reference should be "domestic Violence" period and allow that to encompass the examples of where Men are the victims, which is no doubt the minority.

Yeah I get pissed off with how some of these well meaning kind of things can make all men look like cnuts, but that's just collateral.

Overall general violence in society is a different case and needs a number of different interventions to change things. Working on the pieces individually is fine as ling as someone has sight of the bigger picture.

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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:51 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Tannin wrote:
1061 wrote:
David wrote:
But if it's going to achieve anything of significance, its primary concern must be exploring the causes of domestic violence and developing stronger prevention mechanisms.


Hopefully the RC will bring in real people who have been on the receiving end of DV rather than a bunch of wanna be jock/jockets who think they know it all but have never had a hand raised in anger against them.


THat's what they do. They put victims in the witness box, hundreds of them, and they hear evidence. The example of the Church Abuse Royal Commission has been there before us for months and months, and the Bushfire RC before that. Haven't you been paying attention?.


Isn't all that information already there though?


Sure it is. But:

(1) Nobody does a damn thing about it. The people with the information have no power, and the people with the power need the stinking information rubbed in their media-managed, poll-driven faces until they have to act on it.

(2) Only some of the information is on the record. People don't report stuff and they sit on their grief and fester, knowing that nothing will be done because the people with the information have no power (or, worse, aren't interested), or simply because they lack the courage. A Royal Commission brings these people out of the woodwork so they can tell their stories. (If you don't know this already from the hearings of the Child Abuse, which has brought out hundreds of previously unknown victim reports and drilled down deep into the bureaucratic structure to grill those responsible for sitting on the information and doing nothing, then you haven't been paying attention. Or, to be fair, perhaps you have been existing on your usual high-fat information diet and not listening to ABC current affairs, which has covered it in depth and gruesome detail.)

(3) For many victims, it is an important part of the healing process to get things out into the open, on the record, so they can tell their story, draw a line, and move on. Again, if you had been paying attention to the child abuse RC you would have seen this healing process in action already.

(4) Only a Royal Commission's report has the gravitas to impel fat-headed politicians into action. They seldom act on some bureaucrat's report, and habitually ignore even the experts on their own payroll. But it's very hard to ignore a Royal Commission, and you need very good reasons to ignore its recommendations. Once again, look at the Deaths in Custody RC or the Bushfire RC. In both cases, nearly all the recommendations were implemented in whole or in part.

This Royal Commission is not the whole answer and possibly its terms of reference could be better (I haven't studied them and have no current opinion on that), but it is an important and very useful step in the right direction.

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Morrigu Capricorn



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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:22 pm
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You have to include Family Law and CSA - the current processes are destructively adversarial - they help neither women, men or the children who invariably end up the pawns!
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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:47 pm
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^ Do you reckon they will? Doesn't sound too likely. Nobody takes complaints about family law matters seriously. Open your mouth and report it, and everybody thinks you are just a bitter, abusive loser.

(No personal axe to grind here, BTW. Domesticity is not my thing, unless you count the cat, and you know what happened to her when she played up.)

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partypie 



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:15 am
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Domestic violence affects us all. Has anyone ever tried to cost it? Thankfully it wasn't an issue in my immediate family.

I see a family of three brothers struggling with the trauma of having watched their mum get belted by their father, and the subsequent low self esteem and substance abuse.

I am going to move house because of a threatening neighbour. Checking up, I hear that his grandfather and his father were violent towards their children and he has a bad reputation regarding women. Hopefully I find another place to live soon.

One of my daughters young friends has been stalked by an ex boyfriend who is also having substance issues. The police have been helpful.

I can imagine a huge amount of health and welfare expenses are the result of domestic violence and new ways to deal with it are needed.
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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:52 am
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partypie wrote:
Domestic violence affects us all.


Well, no, as a matter of fact. It has certainly never affected me, nor anyone I know well enough to have learned about it, and I'm sure that there are plenty of other people who could say just the same. Possibly my social circle is on the small side, nevertheless, I'm not Robinson Crusoe in that respect.

But this is a mere nit-pick on a post I can't disagree with in any substantial way. As you were.

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pietillidie 



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:26 am
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Well, if I had my way the focus of any commission would be on the major stressors which amplify violence on the one hand, and the individual psychiatric coping resources which moderate it on the other. We know more than enough about the phenomenon of violence itself.

But that would mean first having to look at stressors such as rising social polarisation, declining real income, and the deterioration of things like "careers" in the flexible economy, and then taking the apparently bamboozling and quantum steps of viewing the brain medically, and modifying the school curriculum to include self- and-other awareness as a compulsory subject, delivered by competent child development experts who also act as a resource centre for teachers and parents.

But if preliminary steps are needed to move in a worthwhile direction, and can even lead to better immediate reporting or intervention procedures, or what have you, any start will do.

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pietillidie 



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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:36 am
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Quick question for those in the know: If the rate of violence against either men or women (or both) goes up or down, what happens to the rate of violence against children?
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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:35 am
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Yes, good thinking there PTID. You also need to look at cultural influences, most obviously the constant desensitisation to voilence delivered by the media for no better reason than the enrichment of already wealthy men, which is an ongoing disgrace.
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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:40 am
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Morrigu wrote:
You have to include Family Law and CSA - the current processes are destructively adversarial - they help neither women, men or the children who invariably end up the pawns!


It's not just adversarial, the people who work in it are (in the main) all seriously biased toward the female. The whole thing needs a separate thorough enema but no bloke would be stupid enough to go near it.

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