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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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A truly hellish problem. If a RC will make any difference, I'm for it. I have my doubts that it'll make much impact on the problem (though it'll bring some domestic bliss into the homes of lawyers, no doubt), but i'm prepared to be convinced.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Mugwump wrote: | | A truly hellish problem. If a RC will make any difference, I'm for it. I have my doubts that it'll make much impact on the problem (though it'll bring some domestic bliss into the homes of lawyers, no doubt), but i'm prepared to be convinced. |
Nah, this one should work: It's not about Australia's shameful treatment of Aboriginals.....in custody.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Australia has one of the lowest domestic violence incidences in the world, so apart from cheap politics I'm not sure what further demonization of men is going to accomplish. Plenty of studies show violence is reciprocal in about half of cases, meaning that violent people tend to gravitate together. Violent men already get removed from homes and charged by police even when the woman being abused doesn't press charges (as many wouldn't due to fear). What more can be done?
In incidences of non reciprocal violence of men against women we are already doing almost everything that could be asked as a society. I would think that educating kids in high schools effective conflict resolution and simply walking away from conflict that is escalating would be a good start. I think school is the best place to teach relevant life skills that parents seem unwilling or unable due to ignorance to pass on.
With the amount of violence, from both boys and girls among youth today I'm not confident that domestic violence is a solveable issue once that generation is pairing up, if anything I wouldn't be surprised to see it get worse. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Wokko wrote: | Australia has one of the lowest domestic violence incidences in the world, so apart from cheap politics I'm not sure what further demonization of men is going to accomplish. Plenty of studies show violence is reciprocal in about half of cases, meaning that violent people tend to gravitate together. Violent men already get removed from homes and charged by police even when the woman being abused doesn't press charges (as many wouldn't due to fear). What more can be done?
In incidences of non reciprocal violence of men against women we are already doing almost everything that could be asked as a society. I would think that educating kids in high schools effective conflict resolution and simply walking away from conflict that is escalating would be a good start. I think school is the best place to teach relevant life skills that parents seem unwilling or unable due to ignorance to pass on.
With the amount of violence, from both boys and girls among youth today I'm not confident that domestic violence is a solveable issue once that generation is pairing up, if anything I wouldn't be surprised to see it get worse. |
It is ignorance to state that ALL domestic violence is perpetrated by only men. I know of several situations where the alleged perpetrator is female.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Lazza wrote: |
It is ignorance to state that ALL domestic violence is perpetrated by only men. I know of several situations where the alleged perpetrator is female. |
Totally agree, and even worse the most prevalent perpetrator of domestic violence against children is mothers, but this never gets mentioned at all. I would be amazed if this Royal Commission even took a cursory look at violence against men and children by women.
There is so much support for women of domestic violence and an already aggressive and fast response to men who perpetrate that violence, if anything else can be done, well nobody in the world has thought of it yet. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Problem is the Feminist lobby are better organized than mens groups and as such will have been ready to go for this Royal Commission years ago. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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To be sure:
No one has said there is not DV the other way but that is a distraction and a straw man here.
For the apologists of Domestic Violence who always try to water this down through distraction or blame "feminists" for their own or other's inadequacies, I'll write it again:
The leading cause for death & disability for women in Victoria is Domestic Violence.
This is caused in the main by Men. 1061 has admitted she has been a perpetrator of DV on those sites before & good on her for owning up to it.
To say the extent of DV being less than other places while it is the number one reason for the killing & disabling of women in Victoria is is a relativist cop out.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Funny, today I can't get out of this funk I'm in, thinking of my mum. So close to tears all day.
Watching your father knock your mother out cold, stays with you forever. The majority of men are bigger, stronger, and do a lot more damage. Permanent damage. This won't help my mother now, who knows if the beating contributed to her brain tumour, or the dementia? Her death? All I know is domestic violence stole her life, she was the walking dead as long as I can remember. It's not just the wounds you see, it's the ones that cruel your heart, your hope, your whole being. It's also the damage done to the kids. Both physical and mental. My father beat me so bad when I was three I couldn't walk, a neighbour left me on the door step, too scared to ring the bell. I don't know why he did it. My mental scars will never heal, and my mothers pain haunts me. I should have done something. Anything. And I shouldn't feel like that. My dads still alive, almost crippled by self neglect, alone, miserable, and at times, as mean as ever. Pathetic. No remorse. Thankfully far away. Forgiveness? For my sake only. I'll never forget, and I still can't fill the hole that's left when a parent is so so bad.
That's my story. Make of it what you will. I welcome this commission. It can only be a good thing.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| watt price tully wrote: | To be sure:
No one has said there is not DV the other way but that is a distraction and a straw man here.
For the apologists of Domestic Violence who always try to water this down through distraction or blame "feminists" for their own or other's inadequacies, I'll write it again:
The leading cause for death & disability for women in Victoria is Domestic Violence.
This is caused in the main by Men. 1061 has admitted she has been a perpetrator of DV on those sites before & good on her for owning up to it.
To say the extent of DV being less than other places while it is the number one reason for the killing & disabling of women in Victoria is is a relativist cop out. |
I think you'll find the leading cause of Death is Suicide?
I think the Police response to DV is terrible, too many officers put their own spin on what they are viewing rather than remaining independent observers/enforcers of the law. How many parents use their kids as tools in their personal war with their ex's and this child welfare issue is too often ignored by the authorities. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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You're seriously spouting that bullshit statistic WPT? Worse, you're not even bothering to include the age group, don't worry, I'll add it in for you.
"The latest available data shows that the top five causes of death, disability and illness [combined] for Australian women aged 15-44 years are anxiety and depression, migraine, type 2 diabetes, asthma and schizophrenia. Violence (let alone the subset of family violence) doesn't make the list."
Begg, S., Vos, T., Barker, B., Stevenson, C., Stanley, L., & Lopez, A. D. (2007). The burden of disease and injury in australia 2003. Canberra: Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. Retrieved September 21, 2009, from http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/index.cfm/title/10317
All the statistics I've followed have shown the statement to be bullshit, and no matter how its worded it comes up bullshit.
Violence against women is wrong, those who do it are already punished and women effected already have support services in place. There are no such services or supports for men (even men with children facing this issue) and you purposefully misrepresenting those who highlight these facts just proves the point.
Sadly the only places that try and find the truth are mens rights websites, and even when the information is sourced and annotated people just don't want to know about it.
And you're wrong WPT, nobody bothers to mention the violence going 'the other way' as you put it, even though as I said the primary perpetrator of violence against children is their mother.
Also, don't you dare call someone an 'apologist of Domestic Violence' because they disagree with the biased, incorrect and damaging portrayal of this issue. The vast majority of men are NOT violent and yet all men are tarred with the same brush in these campaigns. Men and boys are being taught they are violent, aggressive brutes who everyone has to watch out for. I say bullshit to that.
Last edited by Wokko on Tue Jan 20, 2015 1:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| think positive wrote: | Funny, today I can't get out of this funk I'm in, thinking of my mum. So close to tears all day.
Watching your father knock your mother out cold, stays with you forever. The majority of men are bigger, stronger, and do a lot more damage. Permanent damage. This won't help my mother now, who knows if the beating contributed to her brain tumour, or the dementia? Her death? All I know is domestic violence stole her life, she was the walking dead as long as I can remember. It's not just the wounds you see, it's the ones that cruel your heart, your hope, your whole being. It's also the damage done to the kids. Both physical and mental. My father beat me so bad when I was three I couldn't walk, a neighbour left me on the door step, too scared to ring the bell. I don't know why he did it. My mental scars will never heal, and my mothers pain haunts me. I should have done something. Anything. And I shouldn't feel like that. My dads still alive, almost crippled by self neglect, alone, miserable, and at times, as mean as ever. Pathetic. No remorse. Thankfully far away. Forgiveness? For my sake only. I'll never forget, and I still can't fill the hole that's left when a parent is so so bad.
That's my story. Make of it what you will. I welcome this commission. It can only be a good thing. |
A horrible story, nobody deserves that and someone should have done something because actions like those are never a secret. My father and grandfather were similarly terrorized by my alcoholic grandmother, and while the physical damage wasn't as severe as in your case, my Grandfather ended up an emotional cripple (and recovered alcoholic) living in a caravan and my father was a drug addict and alcoholic who my mother ended up kicking out and I never saw again.
The costs of domestic violence are enormous and generational, but most people are not like that, most men are not like that and will do what they can to stop it. My beef is these campaigns make all men out to be potential perpetrators and the fact is, the vast majority of us are not. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Wokko wrote: |
The costs of domestic violence are enormous and generational, but most people are not like that, most men are not like that and will do what they can to stop it. My beef is these campaigns make all men out to be potential perpetrators and the fact is, the vast majority of us are not. |
Domestic violence either way, that's what needs to be looked into. Though I don't really think this commission paints all men like that, I'm sure you will get some women, and indeed men, victims abuse, who turn out to be serial killers becauSe of what they suffered. I consider myself lucky, once I got past the fear and bitterness, I was just left with an overprotective, overly sensitive nature. My sisters are both the opposite, surrounded by walls.
Most women are not like that either. Unfortunately the body bags mostly contain females. How many victims of abuse escape their living hell by suicide, or in a bottle of booze (my mum liked sherry)? Their deaths may fall under those banners, but why did they go down that path?
Take it at face value, hopefully some good will come out of it, and hopefully, for both sexes.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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While looking into this I've come across an interesting, well researched website that advocates for male victims of domestic violence. It should go without saying that showing concern towards male victims (who are a largely silent and shamed group) does not diminish the concern towards or breadth of the problem of violence against women.
http://www.oneinthree.com.au/
Some interesting facts from the site (and they've linked to the studies/statistics they're pulled from)
-At least one in three victims of family violence is male
-One male is a victim of domestic homicide every 10 days
- Male and female victims of reported domestic assault receive very similar numbers and types of injuries
I too hope the commission can find some solutions to this horrible issue for all victims, whether male, female or children and also discover some means of supporting perpetrators of violence to improve themselves and their behaviours. |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Wokko wrote: | You're seriously spouting that bullshit statistic WPT? Worse, you're not even bothering to include the age group, don't worry, I'll add it in for you.
"The latest available data shows that the top five causes of death, disability and illness [combined] for Australian women aged 15-44 years are anxiety and depression, migraine, type 2 diabetes, asthma and schizophrenia. Violence (let alone the subset of family violence) doesn't make the list."
Begg, S., Vos, T., Barker, B., Stevenson, C., Stanley, L., & Lopez, A. D. (2007). The burden of disease and injury in australia 2003. Canberra: Australian Institute of Health and Welfare. Retrieved September 21, 2009, from http://www.aihw.gov.au/publications/index.cfm/title/10317
All the statistics I've followed have shown the statement to be bullshit, and no matter how its worded it comes up bullshit.
Violence against women is wrong, those who do it are already punished and women effected already have support services in place. There are no such services or supports for men (even men with children facing this issue) and you purposefully misrepresenting those who highlight these facts just proves the point.
Sadly the only places that try and find the truth are mens rights websites, and even when the information is sourced and annotated people just don't want to know about it.
And you're wrong WPT, nobody bothers to mention the violence going 'the other way' as you put it, even though as I said the primary perpetrator of violence against children is their mother.
Also, don't you dare call someone an 'apologist of Domestic Violence' because they disagree with the biased, incorrect and damaging portrayal of this issue. The vast majority of men are NOT violent and yet all men are tarred with the same brush in these campaigns. Men and boys are being taught they are violent, aggressive brutes who everyone has to watch out for. I say bullshit to that. |
First:
In my initial OP I bolded the line:
Domestic violence is the major cause of death & disability for women under 45 in Victoria.
I then quoted the source being the link I provided, that is: The Age.
Going back to the Age they have since added this, that is they made a mistake hence my quotation of the news was based on wrong information.
* An earlier version of this story said that family violence is the leading cause of death and disability for young women. It should have said it is the leading contributor to the preventable death, disability and illness in young women.
located in this:
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/royal-commission-into-family-violence-terms-of-reference-released-20150119-12tbwv.html
Second: In the repeat of the bolded line I did omit the age of the women victims. Just a mistake nothing more or less.
Now to get back to the thread & my point & as I've said many times over:
Men kill & disable women far more, overwhelmingly more than the other way around.
All the rest is obfuscation & derailment.
If men feel personally blamed for the statistics that men kill & maim women overwhelmingly more than women kill & maim men then they should get some assistance.
The Royal Commission into domestic violence should be applauded. Hopefully it will look at all forms of DV.
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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