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Royal Commission into Domestic Violence

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:16 pm
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1061 wrote:
watt price tully wrote:
To be sure:

No one has said there is not DV the other way but that is a distraction and a straw man here.

For the apologists of Domestic Violence who always try to water this down through distraction or blame "feminists" for their own or other's inadequacies, I'll write it again:

The leading cause for death & disability for women in Victoria is Domestic Violence.

This is caused in the main by Men. 1061 has admitted she has been a perpetrator of DV on those sites before & good on her for owning up to it.

To say the extent of DV being less than other places while it is the number one reason for the killing & disabling of women in Victoria is is a relativist cop out.


I think you'll find the leading cause of Death is Suicide?

I think the Police response to DV is terrible, too many officers put their own spin on what they are viewing rather than remaining independent observers/enforcers of the law. How many parents use their kids as tools in their personal war with their ex's and this child welfare issue is too often ignored by the authorities.


See above.

Also:

The Vic police under Nixon, Overland & Lay have made significant progress into the investigation & support of victims of DV. I work with police who volunteer to work in these areas & are incredibly dedicated to doing good in their work. The same applies to the area I work in - mental health

I've been really impressed with the willingness & enthusiasm of Police in the DV area - it dispelled some of the myths I had. I haven't done a study but am greatly & pleasantly surprised by my limited & anecdotal experience.

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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:20 pm
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It's just a waste of taxpayers money as are all royal commissions.
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:23 pm
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Because it happens more to women we should ignore the men it happens to? The figures are 1 in 3 victims are men, the injuries sustained are similar and men are dying too. It takes severe lack of empathy to dismiss these victims.

Children are victims of domestic violence too, and it is women who perpetrate that violence more than men. Why are you bringing up that more perpetrators against women are men but ignoring that more perpetrators against children are women?
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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:43 pm
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Culprit wrote:
It's just a waste of taxpayers money as are all royal commissions.


Funny thing that. When a Royal Commission is held into a left wing sacred cow, they're all rubbish. When they're held into something that is unilaterally agreed needs work, then it's a good thing. Rolling Eyes

FMD, they either work or they don't.

In this case, I'm genuinely not sure what a royal commission is supposed to be able to uncover that a few diligent researchers going through the multitude of available information couldn't do at a fraction of the cost.

Is domestic violence a bad thing? Yes.
What do we do about it? That's where you want some experts in various fields going through all the information to determine patterns and potential options for alleviation.

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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:39 pm
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The difference, Stui, is that a Royal Commission has far greater weight. A Royal Commission can achieve things that an ordinary inquiry cannot. This is particularly the case when the key facts of the matter are largely known, or at least at least known by most experts, but are too politically difficult to act on.
You can have a dozen ordinary inquiries and politicians just ignore them, or more typically adopt a few of the easiest recommendations and drag their feet on the rest for as long as it takes for the papers to forget the story. (Usually about three days, in extreme cases a couple of months.)

But politicians find it vastly harder to ignore a Royal Commission. Consider a few recent examples: the Deaths in Custody RC report had nationwide impact and resulted in real, significant progress. Most of the recommendations were adopted, some in whole, some in part, and although we have perhaps backslid a bit since then, we have nevertheless achieved a great deal of long-lasting good as a result of it.

Or consider the current Church Child Abuse RC: although it hasn't even reported yet, the changes it is bringing about are real and important. No ordinary inquiry can do that.

The second factor to consider is the nature of the Royal Commission process itself. It is public; the evidence given before it is on te public record, it makes the news for weeks on end and cannot be ignored or supressed. Even without a report (though there will be a report) and even without clear government action at the end of it (though there will be action), the process itself creates much greater awareness, opens institutions up to public scrutiny and te fear of public scrutiny, forces changes of mindset, and forces changes of bureaucratic procedures.

Royal commissions, in short, serve a very useful purpose indeed.

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:43 pm
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Thanks for answering that, Tannin, I was wondering the same.

Wokko, I think you and WPT are talking past each otherI don't think WPT is saying that we should ignore male victims of DV; in fact, he said the exact opposite.

I do agree with you though that broader society seems to struggle to understand that domestic violence isn't just a male-on-female problem. I went through a Greens policy document on domestic violence prior to the Victorian state election, and I was disappointed by much of the wording in there. We definitely have a long way to go in the way we discuss this topic.

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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:45 pm
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PS: Abbott's ridiculous "Royal Commission" into the unions achieved nothing, of course, because it was stacked in the first place, because it was universally seen as a sham from the outset, and most of all because there was never anything much there for it to report on in the first place. No-one outside the Liberal Party and the IPA took it seriously. Thus far, Abbot's two sham RCs seem to have done more damage to Abbott's reputation than they have to the weight and significance of royal commissions in general.
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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:02 pm
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David wrote:
I do agree with you though that broader society seems to struggle to understand that domestic violence isn't just a male-on-female problem...... We definitely have a long way to go in the way we discuss this topic.


Just so, David. (And via you, Wokko.) We are still not allowed to mention the gigantic elephant in the room: the abundantly evidenced but apparently secret fact that most victims of violence are not women, they are men.

Reluctantly, I have come to two conclusions about this:

(1) That far too many people (women especially but men as well) reason that "because some men do violence to some women, all those other men who who are victims of violence deserve what they get because they are men".

(2) That this massive problem will never be addressed while the mindless trendies are obsessed with violence only if it is against women, and because of this unfortunate fact, we probably need to address the smaller problem (violence against women) first, and (however reluctantly) accept that the larger problem (violence against men) must go ignored for a decade longer.

I take the view that these two problems are in fact one single problem, and that we will never get a real answer to either one while we insist on pretending that they are different or (worse) pretending that one of them doesn't exist or isn't important. My hope is that after the campaign on violence against women fails (as it will - though it will undoubtedly make welcome progress along the way), the campaigners (or at least some of the smarter ones) will wake up to the fact that the best way to stop violence against women is to just stop violence, of any kind, against anyone. We can do that if we try, but we can't even get started until we begin to see the problem clearly. Don't hold your breath, check back in ten years, maybe 20.

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:07 pm
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You've got you're tongue so far in your cheek, I seriously hope you don't choke.

Violence against women does more physical damage than violence from women against men, the psychological damage is probably leaning toward the male victims but only just.

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:16 pm
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Wokko wrote:
Because it happens more to women we should ignore the men it happens to? The figures are 1 in 3 victims are men, the injuries sustained are similar and men are dying too. It takes severe lack of empathy to dismiss these victims.

Children are victims of domestic violence too, and it is women who perpetrate that violence more than men. Why are you bringing up that more perpetrators against women are men but ignoring that more perpetrators against children are women?


Oh dear. The thread is about an RC into DV.

The main victims especially in terms of being the recipients of violence (including death) are women at the hands of men.

This does not mean I ignore other victims. However, as you know there are some here that choose to blame others such as those sneaky "feminists" for the position of men.

The last line of my previous post was that along the lines of "Lets hope the RC deals with all forms of DV".

I have assessed thousands of people in my work in crisis & emergency mental health. I've seen very few who are men abused by women or women abused by women - especially as children (there could be a number of reasons for that).

I see damaged people from the abuse of parents where the overwhelming number of who are women & some men who have been abused if not by their fathers then by other male members of the family or a male friend of the family.

Without exaggeration this numbers in the hundreds if not more than a thousand. In my field unfortunately it's male perpetrators of rape / sexual abuse against children mostly female but also male victims of the actions of men that is common.

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Tannin Capricorn

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:23 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
You've got you're tongue so far in your cheek, I seriously hope you don't choke.

Violence against women does more physical damage than violence from women against men, the psychological damage is probably leaning toward the male victims but only just.


Who are you talking to? Not me, I trust, insofar as your remarks have got nothing whatsoever to do with my point. Or perhaps you just need to read more carefully before you reply to something you imagined I said.

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Wokko Pisces

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:36 pm
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David wrote:
Thanks for answering that, Tannin, I was wondering the same.

Wokko, I think you and WPT are talking past each otherI don't think WPT is saying that we should ignore male victims of DV; in fact, he said the exact opposite.

I do agree with you though that broader society seems to struggle to understand that domestic violence isn't just a male-on-female problem. I went through a Greens policy document on domestic violence prior to the Victorian state election, and I was disappointed by much of the wording in there. We definitely have a long way to go in the way we discuss this topic.


You're usually better at reading the subtext behind what people say David, or in this case the overt words staring you in the face. WPT has dismissed as obfuscation and derailment even the notion of domestic violence against Men. Sure there was the slightest of nods that you took hold of as a sign of rational impartiality but it was a smokescreen.

I fear that this Royal Commission will be nothing more than an exercise that demonizes men as violent thugs, gives a pass to female perpetrators both against men and children and does nothing more than suggest further punitive measures against men (even in reciprocal violence cases). I fear this because I've never seen anything other than this happen when it comes to this issue.

As for not seeing the victims of female - male violence, men don't report it because they are either mocked and shamed or, even when taken seriously receive no support and end up facing losing their children and assets in court. Even worse they receive a counter complaint from their abusers that is believed and acted upon.

As for child victims of their mothers, I've already told you about my own father, my partner's mother was emotionally and physically abused towards her and she is now a wreck, suffers from substance abuse and severe mental health issues. In your field you may not meet these people, but they're out there and they're ignored.

There was silence around husband to wife violence for decades, why are we doing the same thing again when we should all know better?
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HAL 

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:37 pm
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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:39 pm
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Tannin wrote:
stui magpie wrote:
You've got you're tongue so far in your cheek, I seriously hope you don't choke.

Violence against women does more physical damage than violence from women against men, the psychological damage is probably leaning toward the male victims but only just.


Who are you talking to? Not me, I trust, insofar as your remarks have got nothing whatsoever to do with my point. Or perhaps you just need to read more carefully before you reply to something you imagined I said.


I didn't imagine anything, unlike some here I actually read stuff I reply to. I made an assumption that, based on your post, was incorrect.

Well played sir.

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Wokko Pisces

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:43 pm
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Tannin's post has a sarcastic tone because that's the tone you would generally be accurate in assessing his posts as. In this case, just go with face value. Laughing
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