Happy Australia Day!

[David]

^ I don't see any of that (which I think is exaggerated in any case) as cataclysmic if it occurs. The idea that a change of the date might cause serious social unrest or violence seems absurd to me. Whether it could provide fodder for a successful Trump-esque political run is another question. But I still think it's far more likely that the positives would outweigh the negatives.

[stui magpie]

^

it's not cataclysmic, it's not even likely. it's an exaggerated possibility, elements of which are frankly more likely than people just going meh and moving on.

Ever action can have a number of consequences. the ones you want and others you don't. You can't simply ignore the ones you don't like and assume they won't happen. In the scenario I painted the Aboriginals become the poor buggers in the middle of a slanging match. if you reckon that's going to further the cause of reconciliation you need a better class of drugs.

I haven't seen a single benefit listed by anyone for changing the date, against the wishes of the vast majority, that can't be achieved with better education and marketing aimed at reconciliation.

[Skids]

And that's just it... the majority want nothing to change.

Another instance of the screaming, whinning, snowflake minority who can't take not getting what they want.

[Mountains Magpie]

[stui magpie]

^

Eddie for pres.

But yep, simple as falling up stairs. Just keep Australia day where it is.

[Mugwump]

[Mugwump]

By the way, can we change Labour Day ? That socialist partisan day is terribly divisive, celebrating old-style unionism in a country that tends to vote for neo-Liberal governments. There really is no reason to celebrate a day that clearly validates the Labour Party and its union mates. I think we should start a conservative push to change the date. It'll make us a much fairer society and prevent the hurt that a lot of people who do not vote Labour feel .... etc etc.

More seriously, right through the 1970s and 1980s there was a very strong Leftist push to trash Anzac Day (read the play "The One Day of the Year" as an example, read the newspaper cuttings re women's marches against rape in war etc). For a significant time, it was argued that Anzac Day represented a subtle glorification of war. That particular fad passed, but it is a great example of how some people with very strange and sinister agendas descend like locusts on a meaningful cultural moment, because it represents a history that they do not like, and they see the chance to increase their power and voice by deleting or suppressing it.

[think positive]

Just cancel all holidays!

[stui magpie]

[Dave The Man]

[Mugwump]

^ agree, Stui. These noisy pressure groups and their latest political fashion accessory are best recognised as a soap bubble in history. Fortunately most Australians ignore and politely resist them until they get bored and press a different button on their conscience.

[David]

Sounds a bit like wishful thinking, Mugwump. It's true, of course, that some progressive causes die a quick death (and sometimes very much for the best), but obviously cultural change and the symbols a society chooses for itself do change from time to time. Such is society's (any society's) endless tug of war between tradition and progress.

In any case, you're going to need more than ad hominem attacks on the intolerant left to deal with this argument. Indigenous people are going to always be a small percentage of the overall population, but you can be just as assured that there won't be any kind of acceptance of Australia Day (and, by extension, what Australia itself represents as a nation state) within Aboriginal communities in the foreseeable future. We can continue to exercise the tyranny of the majority on this and other issues, but if we're serious about the cause of reconciliation then we're going to have to tackle such issues soon.

[Morrigu]

ANZAC Day in this State was saved by Kevin Sheedy and Collingwood but it was Sheedy and the supporters of both teams who really made it happen - the first year or so a couple of dickheads thought it was cool to yell shite during the silence - such was the response from the crowd that it stopped and the silence of 100 thou in respect is " hair on the back of your neck standing up" stuff! The game and subsequent AFL involvement that didn't glorify war but honoured those who fought changed the perception and the public got on board.

The day and the date is not divisive as indigenous Australians fought with and beside Anglo and immigrant Australians. It was a lot easier to " reframe" ANZAC day as the protest was by folk who protested what they saw as the glorification of war and rape etc etc not a protest of the atrocities that resulted from white man arriving here. The facts of what happened to the indigenous people when white man arrived here cannot be changed - you can't " educate" reality away - yes it was a long time ago but so were the wars - you can't just tell people to forget and " get over it" . You may educate white folk about the history and culture but it will not change what actually happened.....

I don't know where you get the " majority" don't want it changed - everyone I know wants it changed ( and none of them or I are part of a nosiy pressure group excepting animal rights groups which quite frankly have a different agenda).

And I also know that the vast majority of indigenious people I have met, worked with, cared for and I have spent a fair amount of time with them in town and remote communities in WA, SA, NT and QLD want it changed as well - because it is a day of profound sadness for them - they don't scream or rant or rave it's just a day of remembrance of loss and sadness.

And the silliest thing of all is that Jan 26th has not always been " Australia Day" the date has changed so many times over the years - so why shouldn't in an effort to make the day a celebration of Australia for ALL it's people move again??

[Mugwump]

^ ^ Anzac Day - compare and contrast. I don't think the attitude to "glorification of war" changed - what changed was that (a) the day never represented what the far left claimed ; and (b) once it was clear that the day would not change, they moved on. The principle here is that the far Left poke at the soft spots, and if they find mush, they keep pushing. Otherwise they move on and try the handle of the next parked car.

As I said above, only half in jest, perhaps the right should start playing the same game, picking on the things that symobilically matter to the Left to try and delete them It would make our society so much more mature and cohesive and unified, wouldn't it ?

As for the "tyranny of the majority", you are far too intelligent for that - it is not "tyranny" at all, as you well know. Once we start emptying words of their meaning, meaning itself drowns. All that is left, then, is power.

[David]

But the Right have been doing precisely that for years! Hast thou considered the culture wars?

One thing I'll concede is that the left does spend far too much of its time on symbols and not nearly enough on the less sexy structural issues that they stand for. That doesn't make their arguments about the symbols in question wrong, per se � unlike, say, Helen Razer, I think symbols are important and can make a substantial difference to how people perceive their place in society and are treated by others � but I do wish that they would devote as much energy to more complex areas.

Lastly, I intended no other connotations re: 'tyranny of the majority' than what is usually implied by the phrase � not sure why you're taking issue with that. It's most certainly a relevant concept in this particular debate.