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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| barrybc41 wrote: | History has the ex Magpie player turned Magpie premiership coach a rare
breed and not since Phonse Kyne [1950 to 1963] has there been one.
Only sucsess has been non ex Magpies so Nathan Buckley has to change
52 years of history to become Magpie player and Magpie premiership
coach
Good luck NB |
Very good point well made. Touch act to follow I guess.
However if anyone is going to do it again, it with be NB (NOT NB as in Neil Balme!!)
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Agree Lazza on Nathan Buckley and i have put NB in for Neil Balme in posts before
Thanks for pulling me up on it and in future full names so as not to confuse Nicksters
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| barrybc41 wrote: | Agree Lazza on Nathan Buckley and i have put NB in for Neil Balme in posts before
Thanks for pulling me up on it and in future full names so as not to confuse Nicksters |
Not a problem barrybc41, I had noticed that on your posts before.. 
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Gone Critical
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
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Will preface these remarks by saying I am a massive fan of Bucks. Been watching the Pies for a long time and he is the best player I have seen at the club by a margin. Also a great leader and seems a great man.
Nonetheless he will come under a bit of heat as a coach if we go down any further. He inherited a great list. The 2010-11 team is clearly the best list Collingwood has had since the 1930's IMHO. It was also relatively young so I certainly had an expectation we could contend for a while. Bucks coached well in 2012 and injuries and poor JMac really scuppered that season. 4 ACLs was cruel. 2013 and 2014 were also significantly injury riddled so he has excuses. However he has also presided over a time when we have lost a lot of A grade or near A grade players who still had plenty of years left. Beams, Daisy, Shaw, Heretier.
There is not much of that team left but there is some top line talent still there. Think Pendles, Cloke, Reid, Sidey, Brown as well as good foot soldiers in Sack, Toovs and Blair. Bucks needs to get the young blokes up and going while the A graders above are still near their best. That's a shrinking time line. Alternative is he has done a total rebuild and completely dismantled the great list he was handed.
So while some events have worked against him Bucks hasn't yet been able to fully harness the talent available to him. Losing too many good players from a club isn't good at thee of the day. His minimum expectation this year has to be to arrest the slide we are on and start to move back up. I for one expect us to play finals if we get a good injury run. |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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GC an incredible run of injuries, defections and pure bad luck have dogged us for three years now. I fully expect a return to finals football with a good run with injuries like you.
Too many fans just see the ladder position and refuse to entertain the leavening factors - that is of course taking Mick fanboys and Buckley haters out of the equation.
Freeman looks like a round 1 start and that boy looks ready to rumble.
De Goo looks all class with ball in hand and may force his way in later in the year.
Shazza is looking good for mid season return to the VFL and if we can keep him on the park he is a CLASS UNIT.
Witts was looking threatening towards the end of last season and may explode onto the scene this year - fingers crossed.
Marsh - lot's of people overlook him - showed a fair bit in the backline last year and has huge potential.
This coming season is show and tell for our previous second rankers to push through and help out the frontliners, that will be the key to how deep we go into September. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Gone Critical wrote: | Will preface these remarks by saying I am a massive fan of Bucks. Been watching the Pies for a long time and he is the best player I have seen at the club by a margin. Also a great leader and seems a great man.
Nonetheless he will come under a bit of heat as a coach if we go down any further. He inherited a great list. The 2010-11 team is clearly the best list Collingwood has had since the 1930's IMHO. It was also relatively young so I certainly had an expectation we could contend for a while. Bucks coached well in 2012 and injuries and poor JMac really scuppered that season. 4 ACLs was cruel. 2013 and 2014 were also significantly injury riddled so he has excuses. However he has also presided over a time when we have lost a lot of A grade or near A grade players who still had plenty of years left. Beams, Daisy, Shaw, Heretier.
There is not much of that team left but there is some top line talent still there. Think Pendles, Cloke, Reid, Sidey, Brown as well as good foot soldiers in Sack, Toovs and Blair. Bucks needs to get the young blokes up and going while the A graders above are still near their best. That's a shrinking time line. Alternative is he has done a total rebuild and completely dismantled the great list he was handed.
So while some events have worked against him Bucks hasn't yet been able to fully harness the talent available to him. Losing too many good players from a club isn't good at thee of the day. His minimum expectation this year has to be to arrest the slide we are on and start to move back up. I for one expect us to play finals if we get a good injury run. |
This arguement has been done to death I know but I'll go 1 more time. Bucks inherited a list that could put a very good team on the park but a list that had some significant issues.
It was a list that had lost Presti, Medhurst, Anthony, O'Bree, Fraser, Rusling and Lockyer (among others) in 2010. It was a list that had lost Brown, McCarthy, Dick and Davis (among others) in 2011. That's arguably half a "best 22". It was a list that was carrying players like Jolly and Didak into 2012 and 2013 when they were never able to recapture their 2010 form or contribute meaningfully.
All of which lead to a very disfunctional list. Age and experience profile was very ordinary.
On top of that there were the injuries. And defections.
As to your suggestion that the 2010-11 team was the best since the '30s, the 1970 team says hi, as does the 1977 team, as does the 1990 team, and that's just the ones I've actually seen. |
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Gone Critical
Joined: 18 Jan 2015
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I agree the kids you mentioned look exciting DD65 but I am not sure they will be the ones making a real difference in 2015 bar Witts who I agree could break out. The other 4 dont have an AFL game amongst them so if at least DeGoey and Freeman can get a taste of AFL action and maybe play 10games or so it will be a good result. Dont think Marsh will quiet be ready apart from maybe a cameo and Shaz is very unlikely to debut in 2015
The improvements I see coming will be from
Reid hopefully fit for the year and him and Trav teaming up
Fas being back and fit for 22 games and teaming up as a fairly lethal fwd duo
At least one of Broomy or BK becoming a full time 1st 22 player and breaking out
Marly, Seedsman and Toovs overcoming the injury or personal issues that dogged 2014 and being back to their best
Langdon coninuing his growth
White benefiting from a fit Reid and being a 3rd prong
Growth of Witts and Grundy
Varcoe and Greenwood adding to our senior mix in a big way
Sinclair, Thomas, Dwyeror PK at leasr one of these boys stepping up
Adams braking out and better seasosn from Blair and Sack
Brown , Keefe and Frost all having bigger seasosn and at least 2 of them owning their best 22 spots
and the biggest
Swanny back to his best or near it
Have at least some of that happen and we are finals bound easily and the 1st and 2nd year boys can start in the VFL and grow through the year |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Gone Critical wrote: | Will preface these remarks by saying I am a massive fan of Bucks. Been watching the Pies for a long time and he is the best player I have seen at the club by a margin. Also a great leader and seems a great man.
Nonetheless he will come under a bit of heat as a coach if we go down any further. He inherited a great list. The 2010-11 team is clearly the best list Collingwood has had since the 1930's IMHO. It was also relatively young so I certainly had an expectation we could contend for a while. Bucks coached well in 2012 and injuries and poor JMac really scuppered that season. 4 ACLs was cruel. 2013 and 2014 were also significantly injury riddled so he has excuses. However he has also presided over a time when we have lost a lot of A grade or near A grade players who still had plenty of years left. Beams, Daisy, Shaw, Heretier.
There is not much of that team left but there is some top line talent still there. Think Pendles, Cloke, Reid, Sidey, Brown as well as good foot soldiers in Sack, Toovs and Blair. Bucks needs to get the young blokes up and going while the A graders above are still near their best. That's a shrinking time line. Alternative is he has done a total rebuild and completely dismantled the great list he was handed.
So while some events have worked against him Bucks hasn't yet been able to fully harness the talent available to him. Losing too many good players from a club isn't good at thee of the day. His minimum expectation this year has to be to arrest the slide we are on and start to move back up. I for one expect us to play finals if we get a good injury run. |
An excellent post for a newbie. Welcome aboard.
My views are similar, however I think they will JUST miss out on playing finals, finishing 10 - 12.
I hope you are right and that I'm wrong. Either way, my gut feeling is that this young team will grow and perform very well under Buck's this year.
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| jackcass wrote: | | Gone Critical wrote: | Will preface these remarks by saying I am a massive fan of Bucks. Been watching the Pies for a long time and he is the best player I have seen at the club by a margin. Also a great leader and seems a great man.
Nonetheless he will come under a bit of heat as a coach if we go down any further. He inherited a great list. The 2010-11 team is clearly the best list Collingwood has had since the 1930's IMHO. It was also relatively young so I certainly had an expectation we could contend for a while. Bucks coached well in 2012 and injuries and poor JMac really scuppered that season. 4 ACLs was cruel. 2013 and 2014 were also significantly injury riddled so he has excuses. However he has also presided over a time when we have lost a lot of A grade or near A grade players who still had plenty of years left. Beams, Daisy, Shaw, Heretier.
There is not much of that team left but there is some top line talent still there. Think Pendles, Cloke, Reid, Sidey, Brown as well as good foot soldiers in Sack, Toovs and Blair. Bucks needs to get the young blokes up and going while the A graders above are still near their best. That's a shrinking time line. Alternative is he has done a total rebuild and completely dismantled the great list he was handed.
So while some events have worked against him Bucks hasn't yet been able to fully harness the talent available to him. Losing too many good players from a club isn't good at thee of the day. His minimum expectation this year has to be to arrest the slide we are on and start to move back up. I for one expect us to play finals if we get a good injury run. |
This arguement has been done to death I know but I'll go 1 more time. Bucks inherited a list that could put a very good team on the park but a list that had some significant issues.
It was a list that had lost Presti, Medhurst, Anthony, O'Bree, Fraser, Rusling and Lockyer (among others) in 2010. It was a list that had lost Brown, McCarthy, Dick and Davis (among others) in 2011. That's arguably half a "best 22". It was a list that was carrying players like Jolly and Didak into 2012 and 2013 when they were never able to recapture their 2010 form or contribute meaningfully.
All of which lead to a very disfunctional list. Age and experience profile was very ordinary.
On top of that there were the injuries. And defections.
As to your suggestion that the 2010-11 team was the best since the '30s, the 1970 team says hi, as does the 1977 team, as does the 1990 team, and that's just the ones I've actually seen. |
Perfect logical reply with factual information and clear evidence. A great example to newbies here. 
_________________
Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Gone Critical wrote: | I agree the kids you mentioned look exciting DD65 but I am not sure they will be the ones making a real difference in 2015 bar Witts who I agree could break out. The other 4 dont have an AFL game amongst them so if at least DeGoey and Freeman can get a taste of AFL action and maybe play 10games or so it will be a good result. Dont think Marsh will quiet be ready apart from maybe a cameo and Shaz is very unlikely to debut in 2015
The improvements I see coming will be from
Reid hopefully fit for the year and him and Trav teaming up
Fas being back and fit for 22 games and teaming up as a fairly lethal fwd duo
At least one of Broomy or BK becoming a full time 1st 22 player and breaking out
Marly, Seedsman and Toovs overcoming the injury or personal issues that dogged 2014 and being back to their best
Langdon coninuing his growth
White benefiting from a fit Reid and being a 3rd prong
Growth of Witts and Grundy
Varcoe and Greenwood adding to our senior mix in a big way
Sinclair, Thomas, Dwyeror PK at leasr one of these boys stepping up
Adams braking out and better seasosn from Blair and Sack
Brown , Keefe and Frost all having bigger seasosn and at least 2 of them owning their best 22 spots
and the biggest
Swanny back to his best or near it
Have at least some of that happen and we are finals bound easily and the 1st and 2nd year boys can start in the VFL and grow through the year |
Couldn't agree more, if 1 of the newbies manages to have a Langdon like debut season that will be a bonus but the basic improvement has to come from the guys in their 2nd-3rd plus seasons and from established senior players being injury free. |
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Pies2016
Joined: 12 Sep 2014
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Yep, there are also 17 other clubs busting their guts to improve their lists too.
( and a couple have done it very well of late ) I would rather know that this club is rebuilding for a premiership rather than just being content with getting blown away in the second week of September for the next 5 to 10 years.
This club needs to be about premierships, not ongoing mediocrity.
My apologies for being a newbie, what would i know . |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| jackcass wrote: | [quote="Gone Critical"]I agree the kids you mentioned look exciting DD65 but I am not sure they will be the ones making a real difference in 2015 bar Witts who I agree could break out. The other 4 dont have an AFL game amongst them so if at least DeGoey and Freeman can get a taste of AFL action and maybe play 10games or so it will be a good result. Dont think Marsh will quiet be ready apart from maybe a cameo and Shaz is very unlikely to debut in 2015
The improvements I see coming will be from
Reid hopefully fit for the year and him and Trav teaming up
Fas being back and fit for 22 games and teaming up as a fairly lethal fwd duo
At least one of Broomy or BK becoming a full time 1st 22 player and breaking out
Marly, Seedsman and Toovs overcoming the injury or personal issues that dogged 2014 and being back to their best
Langdon coninuing his growth
White benefiting from a fit Reid and being a 3rd prong
Growth of Witts and Grundy
Varcoe and Greenwood adding to our senior mix in a big way
Sinclair, Thomas, Dwyeror PK at leasr one of these boys stepping up
Adams braking out and better seasosn from Blair and Sack
Brown , Keefe and Frost all having bigger seasosn and at least 2 of them owning their best 22 spots
and the biggest
Swanny back to his best or near it
Have at least some of that happen and we are finals bound easily and the 1st and 2nd year boys can start in the VFL and grow through the year[/quote]
Couldn't agree more, if 1 of the newbies manages to have a Langdon like debut season that will be a bonus but the basic improvement has to come from the guys in their 2nd-3rd plus seasons and from established senior players being injury free. |
And why not? |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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DP - delayed...  |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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Lets address this issue of defections.
I believe this is at the heart of the matter.
It is why many of us believe there is something toxic at our football club.
I guess u are referring to:
Wellingham
Daisy
Beamsy
Hertier
Walsh
Buttifant
A case can be made that the number 1 reason that each left is the mismanagment and attitude of the senior coach. With secondary cause being the new pro-Buckley mantra from Ed and Pert, which cuts off all avenues of expressing concern.
Coincidence? I dont much believe in coincidence.
The treatment of Shaw,Davis,Jolly,Dids and even Ball was unprofessional at best.
The subsequent mature age recruitment has been laughable.
Thank the lord we have the best recruitment department of young talent in the country.
Bucks has free reign, carte blanche, yet is clearly not accountable to Pert and Ed in a normal healthy way. Because their tenure is threatened by his failings.
Therefore some of us passionate Collingwood supporters feel obliged to express our views.
To be shouted down and wished dead is disturbing and very threatening.
Lazza Rudeboy and Jackass' treatment of 35Forever was disgusting petty and childlike. For grown men your behaviour was verging on criminal.
You continue to gang up on any alternative view like wolves on a lamb.
We are concerned about our club. We not asking u to join us but we beg not to be abused, and maybe keep an open mind.
P.S . the 20k is open to all |
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Hiss
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
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As the creator of this thread and following the posts as I have, I feel I am obliged to call upon that all Collingwood fans; and particularly the influential Nicks inner sanctum, to unite and offer their unqualified support to our Senior Coach as we embark of this very important season 2015. Lets not kid ourselves, 2015 is a critical junction in our ultimate Premiership strategy. The next three years we must deliver. We cannot afford to go backwards. It is not worthwhile comparing us to the so called 10 years MM had, as times were different back then and in 2002 & 2003 we were the best team in the Home and Away competition. We got big bang for our buck those years. Sometimes it is fair to say you can enjoy the ride as much as the destination. 2002 and 2003 were a classic case of that. Now Bucks is a Coach worth backing 100%. He has all the ingredients to deliver us the ultimate September prize. But he cannot do it without everyone getting behind him. We at least owe him that. Come on board and celebrate the victory we so deserve and support this wonderful Club champion as our Coach that will deliver.
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I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
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