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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Took Mick till his 11th season to win a flag (started in 2000 won in 2010)
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Krakouer Magic
Joined: 05 Apr 2011
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| yin-YANG wrote: | Re the Bucks tenure - he has perfomed below par as a coach IMO. I am an optimist one eyed pie supporter and I am certainly not wishing for MM to return etc however I think there has been worrying signs with Bucks as coach. Our gameplan and basic structures such as kick-outs are very poor along with our overall transition footy and by the end of the year our pressure was shocking. The handball happy game looked messy and ineffective. We needed more positive football and attacking flair but instead we went to far with overuse of handballing and lacked real penetration and support for each other - selfish and lazy too often. Of course injuries have played a massive role in Buckley's inability to have the team perform at the requried level, however this year needs to highlight that we are heading in the right direction!
Ten goal thrashings at the hands of the bummers eagles and Brions were shocking - the attitude was wrong the fight was pathetic. I am not sure if we can make the 8 this year - we are rebuilding and will rely on kids to lift - but the gameplan and the intensity needs to be there. I am backing and hoping Bux will work it out and the PIes will be a tough game in 2015 for any team and a genuine flag contender in 2016 - but I don't think it is unfair to look back over 2014 and even 2013 and query the perfomance of the coach. |
Well said! |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Yep and straight from the playing ranks an assistant coach named Leigh Matthews
took 5 seasons (less a few that Bob Rose coached) to snag 1990
Flags rarely come overnight--they are built
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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PyreneesPie 
PyreneesPie
Joined: 22 Aug 2014
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| barrybc41 wrote: |
Flags rarely come overnight--they are built |
Halleluja!!! The most accurate, spot on, sentence I've read in a long time. |
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inxs88
Joined: 17 Aug 2014
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Hey Bucks can "you turn off the lights", I have to "talk to umpires advisors today as Bucks stuffed it up", I think 'Mark Neeld, Scott Watters and Guy McKenna would make excellent choices as coach (Nathan: silence). This was the Nathan "under Mick" coaching apprenticeship. No wonder he has taken a while to develop!
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I love the Pies, hate Carlscum |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Five years for Leigh "Barney"Matthews to get to the 1990 flag and not without
heart in mouth first final draw with WCoast---sometimes you need a slice of luck
Ten years for Mick Malthouse to get 2010 flag and again that draw "slice of luck"
The common thread in both premierships was committed off and on field people
Off field department is looking solid so i for one will reign in my impatience and
give NB moral support
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | I hope he gets the balance right. But if he don't, as a legends member I don't pay hard earned coin for what would be a 6 or 7 season coaching stint that doesn't amount to premiership glory. Collingwood deserves better than that. 3 years ago we were top of the heap. I expect to be there abouts this year, and premiership contender in 2016 & 17. If not then I want coaching change.
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Took MM 9 Years to win the Flag |
My opinion was not meant to trigger MM v Bucks debate. But if you want to talk about it MM was there abouts in 02,03,06,07,08,09,10 &11 wasn't he? Thats a fair run. Tell me the last pies coach to do that?
The fact you guys don't believe its in Collingwood's best interest to win flags instead of accepting mediocrity is astounding considering the shit we been through since 58. Its not a tory ideology. I don't deem it a right. I show a different opinion about bucks' 2014 and his training regime since he took over and you pork chops carry on like I'm Margret Thatcher.. It has nothinng to do anything other than wanting Collingwood to have the best employees and to be the best.
If you want mediocrity go support St Kilda. |
So that's about 60%.... hmmmm, what's Bucks finals record?
Flip side of your point is that perhaps MM under achieved, 8 years in finals, 5 GFs, 1 flag. |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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Not too many i,ll admit with Bob Rose tasting defeat 64 ,66 and 70
Then Hafey 77 (2 GF,s) 79,80 & 81 close but no cigar
We dont have the luck for want of a better word with home grown coaches
like Carlton (Nichols and Jezza) or Hawks (Kennedy)
Bucks just might change that history
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| jackcass wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | Krakouer Magic wrote: | I hope he gets the balance right. But if he don't, as a legends member I don't pay hard earned coin for what would be a 6 or 7 season coaching stint that doesn't amount to premiership glory. Collingwood deserves better than that. 3 years ago we were top of the heap. I expect to be there abouts this year, and premiership contender in 2016 & 17. If not then I want coaching change.
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Took MM 9 Years to win the Flag |
My opinion was not meant to trigger MM v Bucks debate. But if you want to talk about it MM was there abouts in 02,03,06,07,08,09,10 &11 wasn't he? Thats a fair run. Tell me the last pies coach to do that?
The fact you guys don't believe its in Collingwood's best interest to win flags instead of accepting mediocrity is astounding considering the shit we been through since 58. Its not a tory ideology. I don't deem it a right. I show a different opinion about bucks' 2014 and his training regime since he took over and you pork chops carry on like I'm Margret Thatcher.. It has nothinng to do anything other than wanting Collingwood to have the best employees and to be the best.
If you want mediocrity go support St Kilda. |
So that's about 60%.... hmmmm, what's Bucks finals record?
Flip side of your point is that perhaps MM under achieved, 8 years in finals, 5 GFs, 1 flag. |
As the OP says, this was NOT meant to be a comparison between MM and Buck's. It is just that he has a right royal expectation that his hard earned going towards Collingwood delivers him a Magpie flag within 2 years. I say that his hard earned is much better off going towards a club like Hawthorn, Port or Sydney to get his 2 year wish or better still, pay for a course in patience and share in the future joys of Collingwood success just a few years later than his prescribed 2 year period.
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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God knows I used it to argue against him in the not to distant past but it's flawed to believe that Buckley is locked in for another 7 years as coach just because it took MM until his 10th season to win us a flag.
What MM did very well as a coach was to keep us in contention and playing in finals more years than not and arguably his greatest coaching achievement was to take a side that finished stone motherless last in 1999 to playing off in a GF just three years later.
Buckley took over a side coming off a grand final one still filled with half a side of talented young players just at the beginning of there prime.
If only all rookie coaches could be so lucky to takeover in such circumstances.
Three years later though we have tumbled out of the final eight.
Not exactly an upward curve and what was expected at the start of his tenure and no way close to what MM achieved with a lot less to begin with.
But it goes further than just where you finish on the ladder to try and work out the merits of the coach one has.
Worryingly we have continued to see the same flaws in the game plan exposed from one season to the next while our disposal level efficiency is shockingly poor.
We were a bottom 4 side in a number of key statistics last season when it was all said and done.
To me this is the biggest knock so far on Buckley as coach and while injuries put paid to any finals hope of last season don't kid yourself that we weren't still poor in key fundamentals of the game from round 9 onwards and looked anything but a top 8 side IMHO.
While I'll always be grateful for what Buckley achieved as a player and captain of our club and remain a big fan of the man himself simply wanting and hoping for him to succeed as a coach doesn't equate to him having the tools to become a great one.
No, entering his 4th season as coach is it not unreasonable to believe he simply must have this side improving, playing with consistent levels of performance from one week to the next, all within a cohesive and effective game plan that is clear to all to see.
We simply can't go backwards again. No excuses.
I'm not expecting miracles of a premiership or even a top 4 finish with such a young side but I saw enough from our first seven weeks of last year to believe we are capable of playing finals if we can play like that for longer this season.
Right now those 7 weeks is all that I can cling to in maintaining my faith in Buckley, I saw some positive signs of what the coach is wanting to build towards, how he wants us to play and it had me excited and positive for our future.
Question is can he and we continue to deliver on that promise in 2015?
Over to you Bucks.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| swoop42 wrote: | God knows I used it to argue against him in the not to distant past but it's flawed to believe that Buckley is locked in for another 7 years as coach just because it took MM until his 10th season to win us a flag.
What MM did very well as a coach was to keep us in contention and playing in finals more years than not and arguably his greatest coaching achievement was to take a side that finished stone motherless last in 1999 to playing off in a GF just three years later.
Buckley took over a side coming off a grand final one still filled with half a side of talented young players just at the beginning of there prime.
If only all rookie coaches could be so lucky to takeover in such circumstances.
Three years later though we have tumbled out of the final eight.
Not exactly an upward curve and what was expected at the start of his tenure and no way close to what MM achieved with a lot less to begin with.
But it goes further than just where you finish on the ladder to try and work out the merits of the coach one has.
Worryingly we have continued to see the same flaws in the game plan exposed from one season to the next while our disposal level efficiency is shockingly poor.
We were a bottom 4 side in a number of key statistics last season when it was all said and done.
To me this is the biggest knock so far on Buckley as coach and while injuries put paid to any finals hope of last season don't kid yourself that we weren't still poor in key fundamentals of the game from round 9 onwards and looked anything but a top 8 side IMHO.
While I'll always be grateful for what Buckley achieved as a player and captain of our club and remain a big fan of the man himself simply wanting and hoping for him to succeed as a coach doesn't equate to him having the tools to become a great one.
No, entering his 4th season as coach is it not unreasonable to believe he simply must have this side improving, playing with consistent levels of performance from one week to the next, all within a cohesive and effective game plan that is clear to all to see.
We simply can't go backwards again. No excuses.
I'm not expecting miracles of a premiership or even a top 4 finish with such a young side but I saw enough from our first seven weeks of last year to believe we are capable of playing finals if we can play like that for longer this season.
Right now those 7 weeks is all that I can cling to in maintaining my faith in Buckley, I saw some positive signs of what the coach is wanting to build towards, how he wants us to play and it had me excited and positive for our future.
Question is can he and we continue to deliver on that promise in 2015?
Over to you Bucks. |
Respectfully disagree with most of your views.
I never ever believed in the future dynasty crap (and I said so at the time to much flaming) that supporters had after the 2010 win. It took a bloody replay to win it and a few players were closer to the end rather than hitting their peak in the following 2-3 years. The team "culture" was questionable.
Just as a matter of interest, what exactly do you think happened in 2014 after those first 7 weeks that was related to Buckley himself?
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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At this stage the jury is still out for me whether our early season form of last season was due to an increased fitness edge over most of our opponents and whether when that advantage waned we came right back to the pack.
Our performances over those first seven rounds were built primarily on our ability to provide intense full field pressure.
It reeked of a season or two under Shaw where early season promise turned out to be nothing more than that.
Our season was on the wane IMO from the moment of that last quarter against Carlton in round 7 and well before the real affects of our injuries set in over the last months of the season.
I defy anyone to say that Buckley wasn't handed a club in excellent shape both off field and on when he took over at the end of 2011.
Not many rookie coaches get it so good outside of Scott at Geelong in recent times.
While we can debate the reasons for it (and we wont it's been done to death) our clubs performance has not been up to what most expected over the last 3 years.
Time to stop the slide.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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| Respectfully disagree swoop, whilst I agree with and share your obviously intense disappointement and passion I'm inclined to look at the entire picture. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| droversdog65 wrote: | | Respectfully disagree swoop, whilst I agree with and share your obviously intense disappointement and passion I'm inclined to look at the entire picture. |
Yep. Not to be competitive but factually I have followed Collingwood since 1969 and NEVER have I seen a more injury disrupted or disastrous season. If others older than me can enlighten me of another 2014 like season, please do. It totally eroded their confidence and any positive attitude was completely crushed by the end of the season. Not a single coach can make success happen with a team devoid of over a dozen of their top ranked players. Totally impossible. No way known.
The clubs invariably don’t use injuries as a reason because the dumbarse opposition fans, the usual white ants and club critics see it as an excuse. However I see this as THE main reason. 
THAT is why I see it as a slowish, patient return to the top where this ultra confidence, positive attitude and winning culture can be given time to build up with this young, incredibly talented team. Then the coach will be seen in his true light without huge shadows falling over him. Things just don’t happen overnight (2015) as much as we supporters like instant coffee like results. Time is very important to gel this side together to become a real force in 3-4 years. Buck's WILL be a flag winning coach. I will bet on it. 
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Don't confuse your current path with your final destination. Just because it's dark and stormy now doesn't meant that you aren't headed for glorious sunshine! |
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BazBoy
Joined: 11 Sep 2014
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History has the ex Magpie player turned Magpie premiership coach a rare
breed and not since Phonse Kyne [1950 to 1963] has there been one.
Only sucsess has been non ex Magpies so Nathan Buckley has to change
52 years of history to become Magpie player and Magpie premiership
coach
Good luck NB
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I'm not arguing--just explaining why i am right |
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