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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| watt price tully wrote: | | Neil Appleby wrote: | | I don't like what he did either, but I like even less the pathetic actions of the Australian government in going along with trumped up CIA charges. An Australian citizen was illegally imprisoned and our laws and protections were over-ridden. That's very bad. I hope he sues the pants off them. |
That's true.
I hope though he only wins one dollar fifty. The Government did behave badly & illegally.
However, he still is a racist little turd in my view & I loathe the cause célèbre status given to him - not for the case - he was unjustly treated: no two ways but for his views and actions - I still recall the video his Dad made of him where he was unashamedly anti semitic & looked to liberate Indian Kashmir from the infidels. I also recall Leigh Sales book: Detainee 002 - the case of David Hicks some years ago - nothing like a bit of light holiday reading .  |
well said, I remember reading an excerpt from it
you might also want to ask the woman of their beliefs about human rights - though they will all be to scared to give you an answer.
and his citizenship should be revoked
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Neil Appleby wrote: | | I don't like what he did either, but I like even less the pathetic actions of the Australian government in going along with trumped up CIA charges. An Australian citizen was illegally imprisoned and our laws and protections were over-ridden. That's very bad. I hope he sues the pants off them. |
That's true.
I hope though he only wins one dollar fifty. The Government did behave badly & illegally.
However, he still is a racist little turd in my view & I loathe the cause célèbre status given to him - not for the case - he was unjustly treated: no two ways but for his views and actions - I still recall the video his Dad made of him where he was unashamedly anti semitic & looked to liberate Indian Kashmir from the infidels. I also recall Leigh Sales book: Detainee 002 - the case of David Hicks some years ago - nothing like a bit of light holiday reading . |
well said, I remember reading an excerpt from it
you might also want to ask the woman of their beliefs about human rights - though they will all be to scared to give you an answer.
and his citizenship should be revoked |
Whoa there, hold the wedding' - I didn't understand what you wrote.
The main game here is that Hicks was detained illegally & our government at the time lied about him.
What you wrote is way beyond what I wrote. He is our citizen & apparently has renounced what he did. Revoke his citizenship - perhaps hanging is too good for him 
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough†Kinky Friedman |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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I guess I didn't understand what you wrote
(and having googled that book, it wasn't the one I read from, apols)
all those sticking up for him, hope the £$%$er moves in next door to you!
theres enough in point 3 that tells me I don't want him anywhere near me
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hicks#Religious_and_militant_activities
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!
Last edited by think positive on Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | What he did is not the point. In particular, it is irrelevant because HE IS INNOCENT. All citizens of all civilised countries are INNOCENT UNLESS PROVED GUILTY IN A FAIR TRIAL.
It doesn't matter what you think of Hicks. He was illegally punished without trial and without the opportunity to defend himself. The whole POINT of a free, democratic country, the thing our ancestors fought and died for, is the rule of law and right to a fair trial. Hicks didn't get that. He was punished but he is NOT GUILTY of anything unless and until he gets a fair trial. |
I think we agree on that bit about him being innocent and entitled under the law to compensation. It seems a shame, but even moral cretins get legal protection, agreed. Now, do you think there's any chance that some people see him not as a moral cretin, but as a kind of hero or symbol of resistance to the Australian and US government, rather than a scumbag who fought for a putrid cause against the democracy that he is now relying on ...? And if so, do you think it might matter what one thinks of him and how he is described ? |
Yep: even moral cretins get legal protection. That's a fair way of putting it.
Sorry, I can't help what other people think. I often wish I could, but I can't.
We certainly need heroes and symbols of resistance against the frightening secret action of both the Australian and US governments, but Hicks is to "hero" as the slug in my garden is to "champion centre-half forward". Snowden, now there is someone more like a hero. Assange too, in a way, but he's such a dickhead. But life is like that, you get the heroes you get, not the ones you want.
Hell, in our own game, think of the #1 champion centre-half forward of the last two or three decades: he was a complete dickhead.
The Hicks story is remarkable not because Hicks was a hero (he was just a dickhead of the lowest order) but because the people who broke the law to imprison Hicks, and the people who neglected their duty to look the other way (I'm talking about you, Johnny Spineless Howard) were the opposite of heroes.
The Hicks story saw a great deal of damage done to our society and our standing in the world. Nearly all of that damage was done by the people who ignored everything that makes our society safe and free, the people who pissed on our most vital laws and traditions when they imprisoned Hicks without trial, without judge, without jury, without defence, without testing of the evidence, and let him rot there for years in the torture institution even though they knew that what they had done was unfair, undemocratic, and illegal. Hicks was just an ineffectual dickhead who didn't really manage to damage anything much.
No heroes in this story.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | I guess I didn't understand what you wrote
all those sticking up for him, hope the £$%$er moves in next door to you! |
No-one here is "sticking up for Hicks", TP. What we are sticking up for is the freedom and safety which we all enjoy in this country. We enjoy that freedom and safety because we have rules which stop governments and government agencies abusing us, locking up without trial, and so on. These rules are the difference - pretty much the ONLY DIFFERENCE between us and Nazi Germany under Hitler or the the Soviet Union under Stalin. These rules of fair play are all that stands between us and the horror of fascism and the police state. So when people in positions of power break and ignore these rules, they strike a more effective blow against the freedom you and I take for-granted than any terrorist has ever managed. Which part of that don't you understand?
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | I guess I didn't understand what you wrote
all those sticking up for him, hope the £$%$er moves in next door to you! |
No-one here is "sticking up for Hicks", TP. What we are sticking up for is the freedom and safety which we all enjoy in this country. We enjoy that freedom and safety because we have rules which stop governments and government agencies abusing us, locking up without trial, and so on. These rules are the difference - pretty much the ONLY DIFFERENCE between us and Nazi Germany under Hitler or the the Soviet Union under Stalin. These rules of fair play are all that stands between us and the horror of fascism and the police state. So when people in positions of power break and ignore these rules, they strike a more effective blow against the freedom you and I take for-granted than any terrorist has ever managed. Which part of that don't you understand? |
Not just under Stalin, the GLBT community is being targeted daily and only last week the Russians have banned one section of the GLBT minority from driving using mental health reasons. |
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3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Well said Tannin.
This wouldn't be an issue "if" the US had captured him, gathered their evidence and then tried him.
They did not...
Shame on them and their new "justice is only for the deserving" brand of freedom and liberty! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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theres some sympathy from some posters, but yeah, whatever.
and I still disagree. with this case in point. they may have been to lazy to make a decent case, but im still glad the bastard was locked up.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| think positive wrote: |
all those sticking up for him, hope the £$%$er moves in next door to you!
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Terrorist or not, I reckon he'd be a better neighbour than my current one. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Enough about me, let's talk about the Pies. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| 3.14159 wrote: | | think positive wrote: |
all those sticking up for him, hope the £$%$er moves in next door to you!
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Terrorist or not, I reckon he'd be a better neighbour than my current one. |
I thought she was gone, and who knows, she might say the same about you!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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She still comes up on week-ends and owns the place so technically she is still my neighbour.
Grrrr!!!
I've gone off topic
... <delete>
Last edited by 3.14159 on Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:24 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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As others have said, this isn't a debate about the morality of David Hicks. The issue here is that he was a victim of a grave injustice, and that our government endorsed and participated in it. People who commit injustices shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-01-23/former-guantanamo-bay-detainee-david-hicks-innocent/6039806?WT.mc_id=Innovation_News|DavidHicksUsGovernmentAgreesOnHisInnocence_FBP|abc
| Quote: | David Hicks: US government agrees former Guantanamo Bay detainee is innocent, lawyer says
Updated 47 minutes ago
Fri 23 Jan 2015, 11:28am
The United States has agreed that former Guantanamo Bay detainee, Australian David Hicks, is innocent, his lawyer has said.
Mr Hicks pleaded guilty in 2007 to providing "material support for terrorism" but his legal team claimed that he did so under duress and filed an appeal last year.
Mr Hicks's lawyer was confident his name was set to be cleared after the change of position by the US government.
Mr Hicks had appealed against his 2007 conviction for providing material support for terrorism.
Lawyer Stephen Kenny said they had been told the government did not dispute his innocence and also admitted that his conviction was not correct.
He expected to hear within a month whether the Military Commission would quash his conviction.
"I have no doubt, that whether or not the Military Commission clears David, he will certainly be cleared in the higher courts of the United States if we need to go there," Mr Kenny said.
There had been court rulings that the charge Mr Hicks pleaded guilty to was not actually a crime so the charge was "simply invalid", he said.
"[It is] a fact we've known for some time, but it's taken the court some time to come to that conclusion," Mr Kenny said.
The delay in agreeing to Mr Hicks's innocence stemmed from part of his plea bargain, in which he agreed he would never appeal his conviction, Mr Kenny said.
Australian David Hicks was held at Guantanamo Bay for more than five years on terrorism related charges. Here is a look at the major events in the 39-year-old's life.
"This is unusual in Australia, but not unusual in the United States and so the United States government is saying 'although he's innocent he signed this agreement not to appeal and therefore the court has no jurisdiction to consider it and secondly, as a matter of contract law, the court should hold David to his bargain'," he said.
"Now the difficulty the government has is that contract law has nothing to do with this case and the second problem they have is the Military Commission can determine its own jurisdiction, and of course they have jurisdiction to consider this matter.
"So we have no doubts that the Military Commission, following the [former Sudanese Guantanamo Bay detainee] Noor [Muhammed] case, will make a ruling now that David Hicks' conviction should be set aside."
Mr Kenny said David Hicks was very pleased about the latest developments.
"He understands that we're really on the last straight to having his conviction cleared. So of course he is very excited about it and he would be very pleased to have his name cleared."
Mr Kenny hoped the Australian Government would apologise for its part in Mr Hicks's treatment.
"I think their support of holding David in Guantanamo Bay in those conditions for so long is a severe embarrassment and he at least deserves an apology from those who were involved," he said.
"The current Government could issue an apology to David on behalf of the Howard Government and recognise that the Australian Government and in particular the Howard Government's support of Guantanamo Bay was a serious error." |
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