| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Death Penalty |
| Yes |
|
41% |
[ 13 ] |
| No |
|
45% |
[ 14 ] |
| Not Sure |
|
3% |
[ 1 ] |
| I really wanna spank the Monkey |
|
9% |
[ 3 ] |
|
| Total Votes : 31 |
|
| Author |
Message |
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| David wrote: | OK, perhaps replace "can't" with "shouldn't".
I do say this cautiously given my own relatively liberal stance on prisoners' rights. And it's always easy to be wise in hindsight. But in hindsight, given their records, this guy (and Bayley) should simply not have been able to do what he did.
A solution I would consider is shorter non-parole periods but longer overall sentences. This would give authorities a lot more discretion in deciding who is sufficiently rehabilitated and who isn't. |
Him and Bayley are two totally different cases.
Bayley goes down the path of reviewing criminal sentencing, non parole periods, even potentially mandatory sentencing.
If I get this wrong WPT can correct me but someone with mental illness can only be detained and medicated against their will when they have been assessed as being either a danger to themself or others. That needs to be a real and present risk, not just a possible in certain circumstances otherwise we'd nearly all be locked up.
You have to draw a line somewhere. I'm not sure if it's currently in the right spot but I'd prefer it to be where it is rather than where it was when if you were diagnosed with a mental illness you just got locked up.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
 |
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Where did you get it? I think that happens quite often. |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^ Oh, I totally agree in principle. But this guy has quite a rap sheet, doesn't he?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
having a rap sheet means what? Lock em up forever in case they re offend?
FMD when did we swap sides? Did I miss a meeting?
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
 We've entered the twilight zone!
No, seriously, of course I don't believe that prison sentences should be indefinite. I just think that releasing a violent serial offender back into the community unrehabilitated is irresponsible, and that there has to be a better way of dealing with it. Surely, at the very least, given what we know now, it would have been better for society if Bayley and this guy had still been out of the general community. The challenge is to transfer that knowledge into sensible (non-knee-jerk) policy.
I don't know what the answer is myself, but clearly some people are just too much of a danger to society to roam freely. If they have to spend the rest of their life in an institution, so be it (that doesn't mean it has to be a hell-hole; it can be a relatively civilised place, surely). Surely that's a better alternative than having psychotic rapists patrolling the streets waiting for their next victim.
It's not always possible to know who is a major risk and who isn't—I acknowledge that. But I hope we'll keep improving the diagnostic criteria and sentencing practices, and I hope most of all that we'll develop more sophisticated preventative methodologies so that potential offenders can be steered back on the right track before they commit any crimes in the first place.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | having a rap sheet means what? Lock em up forever in case they re offend?
FMD when did we swap sides? Did I miss a meeting? |
Well he should be taken somewhere away from the Public IF you are always getting in Trouble.
or
Send them to the Milltary
_________________
I am Da Man |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
You can't rehabilitate a mental illness. You can treat it, but you're restricted in forcing medication on someone, and rightly so IMO.
There's plenty of people who are too much of a danger to society to roam freely, the majority of them are undiagnosed.
We just need to be very careful making rules that hurt the majority due to the actions of a minority. We do that too often already in general stuff.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| What about after its done? |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | We just need to be very careful making rules that hurt the majority due to the actions of a minority. We do that too often already in general stuff. |
No disagreement there.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | having a rap sheet means what? Lock em up forever in case they re offend?
FMD when did we swap sides? Did I miss a meeting? |
You wanna tell that to this latest girls parents?
He hasn't been out long, what kind of assessment did they do, because they sure as hell £$%$ed it up.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
|
|
|
|
Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Adrian Bayley the vile creature should be hung |
|
|
|
|
5150 
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Woods Of Ypres wrote: | | Adrian Bayley the vile creature should be hung |
After he gets repeatedly "sour graped" in jail, only then can this maggot realise his worth and neck himself with a coat hanger or radio antenna. |
|
|
|
|
David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Neither of you get it. Bayley is £$%$ed in the head; it's not his fault he's the way he is. He's a complete nutcase and always has been. He should have been in an institution from day one, but the system thought they would give him a break from prison every dozen victims or so.
We need to work better not just to reform parole conditions, but also to understand why people like Bayley are the way they are and how they can be identified and reached before they commit any crimes. That means dispensing with superstitions about good and evil and vastly improving our ability to listen and empathise.
If you think him topping himself would be some kind of cosmic retribution, or putting things right, you're wrong. It would just be one more sequence in the chain of damage.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
5150
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | Neither of you get it. Bayley is £$%$ed in the head; it's not his fault he's the way he is. He's a complete nutcase and always has been. He should have been in an institution from day one, but the system thought they would give him a break from prison every dozen victims or so.
We need to work better not just to reform parole conditions, but also to understand why people like Bayley are the way they are and how they can be identified and reached before they commit any crimes. That means dispensing with superstitions about good and evil and vastly improving our ability to listen and empathise.
.
If you think him topping himself would be some kind of cosmic retribution, or putting things right, you're wrong. It would just be one more sequence in the chain of damage. |
Nup, I'd be comfortable knowing we don't breathe the same air.
I'd be more comfortable tying the knot (the noose, not marriage...)
Agree on the reform system but the bleeding hearts, weak judicial system and timid politicians have the run of the state.
How can we change the system? |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | Neither of you get it. Bayley is £$%$ed in the head; it's not his fault he's the way he is. He's a complete nutcase and always has been. He should have been in an institution from day one, but the system thought they would give him a break from prison every dozen victims or so.
We need to work better not just to reform parole conditions, but also to understand why people like Bayley are the way they are and how they can be identified and reached before they commit any crimes. That means dispensing with superstitions about good and evil and vastly improving our ability to listen and empathise.
If you think him topping himself would be some kind of cosmic retribution, or putting things right, you're wrong. It would just be one more sequence in the chain of damage. |
So he's £$%$ed in the head according to you despite never having been diagnosed with any mental illness?
Should have been institutionalised since day 1 hey? Lets just lock up all the nutcases forever and keep them away from society.
maybe it's not his fault he's the way he is but it's still his fkn fault he acted on it and did what he did.
No argument that this cnut should never have been able to rape and murder Jill Meagher as he should have been in gaol for other crimes, but that's all about sentencing and parole, not about his mental state and certainly not about going decades backwards and just locking away everyone with any form of mental aberration. nearly as bad as the current trend to think they can fix everything by pumping drugs into people
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
