Death Penalty?
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| Death Penalty |
| Yes |
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41% |
[ 13 ] |
| No |
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45% |
[ 14 ] |
| Not Sure |
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3% |
[ 1 ] |
| I really wanna spank the Monkey |
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9% |
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| Total Votes : 31 |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | Royal commission into what?
The guy who's been detained by Police has, according to the Aged, a history of mental illness and did time in the serious psych ward, Melbournes version of Arkham Asylum (for the DC fans) You don't get sent there unless you're pinging badly.
My understanding is, and I'll happily defer to people like WPT, the new mental health legislation that puts the rights of the individual higher than previous (which is theoretically not a bad thing) could have some serious negative repercussions along this line. |
We need an investigation into why fruit loops are allowed back into society. We used to have mental facilities, but we sold them all off for the $$$. Now we have individuals left to their own devices. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | Killing him won't bring this girl back, and it won't stop the next murder either. Prevention is the only answer, and that means giving support and funding to mental health, drug addiction and rehabilitative services. This killing could have been prevented: that's the real scandal, not the fact that a meagre amount of taxpayer payer money is going to be devoted to feeding him in a mental institution for the next 40 years. |
Yes this killing could have been prevented David.
Is this the same guy, 14 years ago?
http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/09/02/1093939069388.html?from=storylhs
If he had been killed then, or locked up for life, then Masa would still be alive now.
An don't you just love his "&%%& you finger' as he is driven away? Now there is remorse for you. $200,000 a year to keep him in jail or "care" for the next 50-60 years. I can think of better ways to spend it.
As for finding out what's wrong with him, I'd rather spend that money helping the victims. 31 years old, locked up once for the same thing, he knew right from wrong, and he chose to kill and rape anyway. May he rot.
Death penalty? Can't be bothered arguing anymore, I've softened my view on it, but if this guy got the needle I'd cry no tears. At the very least, lock him up, throw away the key, no chance of parole, and hard labour. No TV, no visitors til he proves he has some remorse. And even then, he probably will only be sorry he got caught.
RIP Masa.
She will never get another chance at life, why should he?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2004-10-12/man-sent-to-psychiatric-hospital-over-sex-crimes/567212
Man sent to psychiatric hospital over sex crimes
TUE 12 OCT 2004, 11:04 AM AEST
A 20-year-old man has been sentenced to more than eight years detention at a psychiatric hospital, over a series of attacks on women around Melbourne.
Sean Christian Price of Donvale pleaded guilty to 22 charges including two counts of rape, three counts of indecent assault and four of stalking.
The County Court heard he attacked seven women including a mother who was walking with her two children in Balwyn in May last year.
The court heard he forced his way into her home and threatened to kill the children if she did not comply.
The court heard he also indecently assaulted a 13-year-old girl who was walking with her friend in Kew.
Judge John Barnett said Price was suffering from the onset of schizophrenia and his psychosis clouded his social judgement as well as his understanding of the impact on his victims.
He ordered he serve at least five and a half years of an eight year, two month sentence as a secure patient at the Thomas Embling Hospital.
It's the System. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| think positive wrote: | | Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage. |
How many more innocent people need to die before we do something? |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage. |
Evil? Psychosis brought on from schizophrenia is a mental illness, not a moral failing. To an extent, I agree with you and Culprit: this is another Adrian Bayley case in which he clearly shouldn't have been let out. But we need to be better at monitoring these people before they commit crimes in the first place, curing their condition, helping them to live functionally in society and, if necessary, institutionalising them.
Do we lack the technology, or a neuroscientific framework? Likely, we're just lacking funding.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| think positive wrote: | | Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage. |
The System is a Joke and No Wonder people have no Respect for it
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I am Da Man |
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Culprit
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage. |
Evil? Psychosis brought on from schizophrenia is a mental illness, not a moral failing. To an extent, I agree with you and Culprit: this is another Adrian Bayley case in which he clearly shouldn't have been let out. But we need to be better at monitoring these people before they commit crimes in the first place, curing their condition, helping them to live functionally in society and, if necessary, institutionalising them.
Do we lack the technology, or a neuroscientific framework? Likely, we're just lacking funding. |
David, Jeff Kennett in his wisdom basically closed all the mental facilities in this State and sold them off. Prime Real Estate all this under the pretence is that the patients would be better off in Society. In saying that you can't keep cutting funding and expect shit like this not to happen. The bean counters and the bottom line will be the reasoning behind all this and the Politicians will just give us spin. I will add the previous sentencing was a disgrace as in all the recent cases. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage. |
Evil? Psychosis brought on from schizophrenia is a mental illness, not a moral failing. To an extent, I agree with you and Culprit: this is another Adrian Bayley case in which he clearly shouldn't have been let out. But we need to be better at monitoring these people before they commit crimes in the first place, curing their condition, helping them to live functionally in society and, if necessary, institutionalising them.
Do we lack the technology, or a neuroscientific framework? Likely, we're just lacking funding. |
maybe, so put them in a mental hospital prison, and give them work to do. let them earn their keep. same as all prisoners should.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Dave The Man wrote: | [quote="think positive"]Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage.[/quote]
The System is a Joke and No Wonder people have no Respect for it |
Are you saying you don't care about it? |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Culprit wrote: | | David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Yep the system never should have let him out. He had time as a secure patient, maybe he's just $£$%^%%$ evil. Whatever. The rights of the victim matter now, not this piece of garbage. |
Evil? Psychosis brought on from schizophrenia is a mental illness, not a moral failing. To an extent, I agree with you and Culprit: this is another Adrian Bayley case in which he clearly shouldn't have been let out. But we need to be better at monitoring these people before they commit crimes in the first place, curing their condition, helping them to live functionally in society and, if necessary, institutionalising them.
Do we lack the technology, or a neuroscientific framework? Likely, we're just lacking funding. |
David, Jeff Kennett in his wisdom basically closed all the mental facilities in this State and sold them off. Prime Real Estate all this under the pretence is that the patients would be better off in Society. In saying that you can't keep cutting funding and expect shit like this not to happen. The bean counters and the bottom line will be the reasoning behind all this and the Politicians will just give us spin. I will add the previous sentencing was a disgrace as in all the recent cases. |
From what I understand, the "mental facilities" you refer to, Asylums, loony bins etc deserved to be closed and have the site burned. They were horrible degrading places where people with mental illness were locked away to keep them out of sight of polite society.
Locking people up isn't the answer, community treatment and support is. The current model in Victoria is (or was a couple of years ago) up there with worlds best practice. Or would be if it was more properly funded.
Ever been in one of the psych wards at a hospital? The current version of the loony bin? Adult Inpatient units they're called and I've had the pleasure of walking through a couple more than once and being impressed with how the clients were treated.
The aim of the inpatient units is only to stabilise someone who's off tap. Not lock them up.
Where it gets complicated is when you start looking at buggers who are bad rather than mad. You get someone who's basically bad but also has a mental illness, which one do you blame for the behaviour?
The pr1ck who murdered Jill Meagher wasn't mad, just bad. Maybe this bloke has a blend of both and maybe he shouldn't have been out but locking up mad Aunt gretel in the loony bin because she had schizophrenia like the used to do was inhumane and demeaning.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ I completely agree with your view on older practices, Stui, but there has to be a third way. You can't just have psychotic people who've been to prison without any discernible rehabilitation running around the streets freely.
As I've said before, "bad" is not a scientific diagnosis. Normal, functional people don't have a compulsion to rape, physically assault and kill random strangers like Bayley did. Something must have gone badly wrong in his wiring to have the constant urge to do stuff like that. Whether it currently has a page in the DSM is irrelevant; it clearly belongs there.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | ^ I completely agree with your view on older practices, Stui, but there has to be a third way. You can't just have psychotic people who've been to prison without any discernible rehabilitation running around the streets freely.
As I've said before, "bad" is not a scientific diagnosis. Normal, functional people don't have a compulsion to rape, physically assault and kill random strangers like Bayley did. Something must have gone badly wrong in his wiring to have the constant urge to do stuff like that. Whether it currently has a page in the DSM is irrelevant; it clearly belongs there. |
Think very carefully about what you just wrote there in the bit I bolded.
Then maybe check out the current revised metal health act and also the human rights legislation in Victoria.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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OK, perhaps replace "can't" with "shouldn't".
I do say this cautiously given my own relatively liberal stance on prisoners' rights. And it's always easy to be wise in hindsight. But in hindsight, given their records, this guy (and Bayley) should simply not have been able to do what he did.
A solution I would consider is shorter non-parole periods but longer overall sentences. This would give authorities a lot more discretion in deciding who is sufficiently rehabilitated and who isn't.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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droversdog65
Joined: 27 Nov 2014
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I think a closer look at who should be on parole boards is in order, some decisions of late have been head scratchers and you can't keep blaming the system without taking measures to improve it.
Mental health in Australia has always been poorly funded, Stui is right about some of the old institutions which were in actual fact horrific - Kew Cottages is a stand out example - of places that actually abused people they were supposed to be helping.
So we have the two extremes - both can't be totally right or totally wrong so the answer must lay somewhere in between.
This country lacks true leadership - we have always been too willing to follow overseas trends and ideas.
That is all very well and of value of course but leadership comes from desire to better your own country not ape some other. I'm talking about true patriotism - not the flag waving, sabre rattling kind but the honest and sincere desire to drag everyone forward into new understanding.
This we will never have whilst we are lapdogs of any country. |
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