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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
I reckon that's a stuff up by abbott and the staffer who got his facts, I'll be totally surprised if this guy had a gun licence and utterly flabbergasted if he had the appropriate category to legally buy a pump action.
In regard to being easy to buy, when you buy a gun from a licensed dealer they register the make, model and serial number online along with your licence number. If they let you have one under the counter they're taking serious risks as they have to be accountable for their stock.
Yeah, if you know people you could still buy stuff from a bloke in a pub, but it's likely to be unregistered, something they owned back before the laws changed. In the city, you're relying on stuff that was stolen from people who hadn't registered it and were thus too scared to report it.
I think that the fact Old mate was armed with a shotgun proves that guns are hard to get. If you were fair dinkum you'd have the shottie for close range impact and show and have some high calibre handguns, preferably semi auto. |
And the Mad Misogynist Monk wants to know how he could have been on Welfare? As though that is a first order issue FFS in the scheme of events 
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| 1061 wrote: | | The Greens are doing what they do best, apparently the real victim here is the Gunman according to them! |
What's your source for this claim?
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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OEP 
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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| Museman wrote: | Handguns hard to get? yeah.
Pre M Bryant now unreg rifles and shotguns not hard AT ALL.
Probably goes to show how unconnected he was, you know some serious folks you will get your hands on a handgun, even then it's unlikely to be a Heckler and Koch or Glock...more like a some pre historic revolver.
Besides, a shotgun is ideal for his purpose, sawn off even better, spread does the job, very dangerous weapon even in the hands of an inexperienced operator. a hand gun ias a very hard weapon to be accurate with if the schit hits the fan.
BTW has anyone explained why the tack response group went in (at least some of them) to a 13 hostage 1 hostage taker situation with Ump's or AR's on full auto? |
They weren't on full auto, they would have been on semi auto for accuracy. What you and others heard was a number of firearms being fired in close succession added to that the echo that occurs when firearms are fired around buildings, all this makes the number of shots sound like more and may make it sound like firearms being fired on full auto.
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A Collingwood supporter since the egg was inseminated. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Culprit wrote: | | The Seedsmeister wrote: | I'm lost for words.....
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That's the Media. |
"The truly perplexing thing about this species, is that whilst it is clearly a fruit bat, it is also plainly a reptile.
Having migrated on its belly from the Australian continent to the Americas, and having contributed nothing of ecological value to either, the species is notable for its lack of empathy glands, the skin and tissue of which was recruited by the evolutionary process to form its menacing jowls and folded, sinister brow."
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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^ Brilliant, The English environment seems to suit you. At the top of your game m'lad.
Swapped Kimchi for toad in a hole 
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| watt price tully wrote: |
And the Mad Misogynist Monk wants to know how he could have been on Welfare? As though that is a first order issue FFS in the scheme of events |
i initially shared that sentiment but thought about how happy people would be knowing that he was in receipt of govt funding of sorts. this then opens up a new can of worms.
for all the questions that have been raised about this individual, there are plenty of others out there on our streets who have fallen through the cracks of our judicial system. mind, they're not all wanting to commit similar acts but they're still dangerous all the same.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I'm with WPT. Pure dog-whistling from our PM.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Compare that to diluted dog-whistling from our PM. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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| His True Colours. |
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Bruce Gonsalves 
Joined: 05 Jul 2012
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Spoke to a senior walloper last night, whose understanding it was if there was a hint of a terrorist situation the armiy's special services were to be called in.
He was actually scathing of the end result as they had 17 hours to plan for this. |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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| OEP wrote: | | Museman wrote: | Handguns hard to get? yeah.
Pre M Bryant now unreg rifles and shotguns not hard AT ALL.
Probably goes to show how unconnected he was, you know some serious folks you will get your hands on a handgun, even then it's unlikely to be a Heckler and Koch or Glock...more like a some pre historic revolver.
Besides, a shotgun is ideal for his purpose, sawn off even better, spread does the job, very dangerous weapon even in the hands of an inexperienced operator. a hand gun ias a very hard weapon to be accurate with if the schit hits the fan.
BTW has anyone explained why the tack response group went in (at least some of them) to a 13 hostage 1 hostage taker situation with Ump's or AR's on full auto? |
They weren't on full auto, they would have been on semi auto for accuracy. What you and others heard was a number of firearms being fired in close succession added to that the echo that occurs when firearms are fired around buildings, all this makes the number of shots sound like more and may make it sound like firearms being fired on full auto. |
No! I've shot guns and heard guns, there was the rhythm of an auto in there, there are also sporadic and staccato rounds fired, but there is definitely a sustained burst from and automatic in there to my ears. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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A great piece by Helen Razer on tragedy and opportunism:
http://www.crikey.com.au/2014/12/18/razers-class-warfare-you-cant-co-opt-siege-victims-for-your-cause/
| Quote: | Razers Class Warfare: you cant co-opt siege victims for your cause
Theres a credible argument that our brains are belief engines evolved to produce sense out of chaos. Pattern recognition, so the evolutionary story goes, is an indispensable tool for survival. It is safer to be informed by the crude deduction that, say, all animals with fur want you for brunch than to allow for the possibility that a particular mammal might be on the I Quit Human regimen. Such patternicity can manufacture false information, but complex thinking can end in your death.
Across the centuries, we have developed methodologies to deliver us, materially and conceptually, from this sort of thinking. Science gives us the means to live beyond physical and metaphysical fear, but even so, we sometimes engage in behaviours that ignore the eras privilege of doubt. We imagine patterns in poker machines, the face of the saviour on toast, and reason in alternative medicine. And we see patterns in news events all the time.
In the face of the quasi-primal fear unleashed by Man Haron Monis earlier this week, our ancient patternicity can be seen throughout local media. Large numbers of people could apparently see the signs for this act of brutality, and these have been read in a number of patterned ways. The limbic idiocy of News Corp and talkback radio kicked things off with predictable hate speech about Islam. If only we banned Muslims, none of this would have happened. But it wasnt only Andrew Bolt who was on the Paleo Diet of reason. There would be days of patternicity to follow.
Just hours after Monis actions resulted in the loss of two lives, a brutally simple feminist account followed. His was not the work of Islamic State but of the Misogyny Terrorist Front. The total disregard thats a total disregard of the juridical system for the lives of women produced the events in Martin Place and then, in related critique, everyone and her aunt demanded to know why everyone else and their suspicious aunts werent in some kind of remand. Basically, local media was united in its call to lock this kind of person up. Their only point of disagreement was on precisely what kind of person, and what kind of pattern, Monis happened to be.
With scant knowledge of the crimes Monis was alleged to have committed and full knowledge that he had been unequivocally rejected, now and previously, by the Muslim community, commentators held forth. We might understand the primitive fears that produce this patternicity, but we cant excuse its broadcast. You dont just publish your first emotional response for the same reason you dont scream I KNOW WERE ALL GOING TO DIE during plane turbulence. Were all entitled to our base moment of private panic, but were also obliged by the most fundamental tenets of community to keep it to ourselves.
But now shutting up even when you have no credible expertise is considered an act of repression. Ones first response is considered an authentic response even if it is made from fear and primal shit. And so, we have journalists acting less as filters for reason than they are as amplifiers of patternicity. Anything dark or stupid or knee-jerk I felt in the minutes after I heard about the siege, I can now read in Fairfax and News. The worst of me is legitimised in print.
None of this is terribly surprising. After the bullshit engine of 9/11 emitted thousands of hours of unedited speculation, all media employees and anyone with a Facebook account feels free and actually obliged to describe the patterns they have identified without thinking. We live in a time of truthers, birthers and anti-vaxers, and no longer in a time of quiet reflection and review. We all think we know how bad things happened and how to stop them happening. What is a little new in the wake of this weeks events is that we seem to think we know how to make good things happen as well.
I shant say much about the #illridewithyou hashtag out of a rational fear that patternicity will see me as a dangerous racist if I do. Instead, Ill just offer this link to a critical piece by my associate Eugenia Flynn. But I will say that the campaign to honour the life of slain manager Tori Johnson by urging for same-sex marriage is some of the most base and presumptuous cheerleading patternicity we could ever hope not to see.
In an absurd piece for HuffPo, writer James Peron makes more presumptions than sense. Lets count them. While it is true that the reportedly heroic Johnson was in a long-term same-sex relationship, it is not true that the author can know if he identified as gay. The author could not know if Johnson was a supporter of same-sex marriage. The author could not know if Johnson felt he had died a second-class citizen or that he wished to be remembered or redeemed in this way. Without explicit permission from Johnsons grieving partner, the author has no justification whatsoever to press a dead man whose views were unknown to him into the service of a campaign he happens to support.
To suppose that all people in same-sex relationships identify as gay and support same-sex marriage at all let alone to the extent that this cause, above all the causes, would be the one with which they would choose to be identified with in death is a crude inanity of Bolt value. What if Johnson cared more for, say, the treatment of queers in detention or homelessness or mental health? What if he thought, as many in the queer community do, that same-sex marriage was an unwelcome and legally meaningless straight-approved distraction from the long and violent struggle for queer justice? What if he thought it was a dangerous shift of a strong and defiant Sydney community into normalising weakness? What if he had no opinion on the matter at all?
Well, of course he did. He had a male partner ergo he utterly supports gay marriage. And the mammal is going to eat me. Patternicity tells me so. Tragically, Johnson cant.
Of course, it could turn out that Johnsons most sincere wish was to wed his partner and extend that state endorsement to all. We dont know. But we cant suppose it any more than we can suppose to understand the events in Martin Place. |
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | Sure it is and of course it can. But as you said yourself, "If you were fair dinkum you'd have the shottie for close range impact and show and have some high calibre handguns, preferably semi auto." Or explosives. Or an automatic rifle like the ones the mass killers so often use.
When you think about it, if the dickhead had been serious and planned the thing properly instead of getting all emotional and making a half-planned cock-up of it, it could have been very, very, very bad. Think bad like that Anders Breivik in Sweden or Martin Bryant in Tasmania. |
Just because he was poorly organised and armed, ergo a bad terrorist, doesn't mean he wasn't a terrorist. There's plenty of evidence and comment around identifying how this is exactly the kind of Terrorism that an organisation like IS is trying to manufacture. They are using social media and reaching out to these disaffected people providing them with the reason/justification to do this stuff. The number of examples is growing, yet some people can't see the wood for the trees.
Terrorism has changed, IS has changed the game.
David, That article just demonstrates pretty much what I said (or alluded to ) earlier, in the aftermath all sorts of interest groups want their two bobs worth, from left and right and also individuals
He was a terrorist, he wasn't one
Why was he on bail, justice system doesn't work..............
How did he get a gun, gun laws need tightening............
Police should have stormed the place earlier..................
Police shouldn't have stormed the place at all, they went in too hairy chested
etc etc etc
Basically opinions are like arses:
1. Everyone has one,
2. What is attractive or unattractive varies from person to person
3. Some work better than others
4. Some just plain stink no matter how you dress them up.
The main points for mine, which I've said before, is that we just had a trial run in dealing with a terrorist scenario and did OK.
Police and Security forces will study and learn from this and so will would be terrorists.
2 people and one dickwad are dead. Some don't like the outpouring of grief because they want to put this whole thing in the past as quickly as possible, others can see that it's a necessary part of the process. This kind of thing doesn't happen hear that often, we just aren't as accustomed to it as the Septics, we need to provide people with a vehicle to grieve if they choose to and trust our overall culture.
And from a cultural and grieving perspective, I think kudos all round. Aussies in general come out of this with a big tick for mine.
Oh, and almost forgot, it's been reported that Old Mate never had a gun licence. Abbott was incorrectly advised.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Surely it's time we start calling him Mad Haron Monis.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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