Torture and the CIA
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3.14159 
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https://independentaustralia.net/article-display/david-hicks-gives-graphic-account-of-torture-at-guantanamo,3424
What-ever you think of David Hick's you have to admit he was never charged, never given access to a lawyer and was released with-out charge, or apology.
David Hick's gave a talk about his 6 years of toryure (with-out charge and abandoned by his freedom and justice loving country)...
Here's an excerpt...
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In Guantanamo Bay the whole purpose was you were not allowed to have a routine. The broke you and destroyed you and made you as desperate as possible so you would sign anything and say anything to get out of there. The most bizarre horrible things took place there.
I can give you one story at this time. One of the detainees there, from Saudi Arabia, his mother died in 2004. So the Americans thought, Ok, we better inform this guy his mother’s died. So they took him to what were called the torture chambers…and they basically short-shackled him, which is a really uncomfortable position on the floor where your hands are underneath your feet like this and they have ring bolted you to the floor. They turned the temperature down to the point where you’re shivering cold; it’s probably about 10 or 11 degrees and over time that gets really cold. (I know all about that, they did that to me.)
So they’ve got him chained in this really uncomfortable position, which may be uncomfortable for 10 or 15 minutes but over time it really starts to hurt. I know that because they did that to me and as the hours pass and they could leave you there sometimes for days and its very painful.
Then they started strobe lights flashing in the room and the room flashed with the strobe lights and every time the strobe lights lit up the room he could see pictures of a pornographic nature or of sick gruesome type of macabre kind of stuff and it was all over the ceiling, the walls and the floors.
One of the interrogators came up with an idea; he dressed up as the Grim Reaper and he came out of the corner and he spoke in English: “Your mother’s dead sucking Satan’s cock in hell”
Then they left him there overnight. And someone from the FBI went in there the next morning and the FBI lady – a woman – gave a statement, because she was horrified at what they’d done, and said that he’d literally pulled his hair out, it was in clumps around him.
Whether or not David Hicks assisted al Qaeda, which he denies, is a matter of speculation that may never be properly resolved to all parties satisfaction. However, the subjective moral guilt or innocence of this man is irrelevant, since he has never broken any Australian law, our only criteria for measuring a persons guilt under our system of justice. As such, his abandonment by the Australian Government to our allies for detention in the most abhorrent and horrific conditions imaginable, should fill everyone who cares about freedom with the gravest of concerns. If Western Governments commit or condone torture in the name of national security, then they risk losing any moral authority they have over terrorists. This puts us all at risk as we lose the battle for hearts and minds in the Islamic world and thereby condemn ourselves to watching the cycle of violence spiral higher.
It is therefore imperative that we remain vigilant and never allow these sort of shameful events happen in our name again.
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Last edited by 3.14159 on Thu Dec 11, 2014 9:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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I think he will get to make a few bucks for the 6 years spent uncharged and abandoned in Guantanamo.
It shouldn't be a crime to tell the world what went on in these places (Abu Grave and others).
He will not get an apology, he certainly won't get any compo, he is an unemployable pariah yet they are still punishing him!
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He served six years in maximum security detention at Guantanamo Bay, and was finally released in 2007 in exchange for pleading guilty to a controversial US Military Commission set up by President George W Bush. There was, in the end, no trial.
As part of the agreement, Hicks was banned from profiting from the sale of his story. The military commission, under which normal rules of evidence did not apply, has now been disbanded by the Obama administration. As a result of this, Hicks’ US lawyers apparently say his conviction by this body is now null and void and any conditions of this conviction are also extinguished.
In reference to this, the Australian Federal Police are currently seeking a brief from Attorney General Robert McClelland as to whether Hicks is potentially breaking any law if he were to profit from sales of his autobiography. |
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think positive 
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| pietillidie wrote: | | David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | So it goes for torture, except that I'm not sure I can think of any instance where torture would be justified. Even in Wokko's example, it requires a framework within which torture is seen as an appropriate fallback option when other attempts at extracting information have failed. I don't think I could support such a paradigm.
To return to your hypothetical, I completely oppose vigilantism and I would hope that, in such a situation, I would seek police assistance rather than trying to take matters into my own hands (which, I imagine, tends to backfire more often than not anyway). So, no, I do not have fantasies about being Liam Neeson. |
yeah na, if inflicting pain on a terrorist stops innocents being hurt, killed, maimed, whatever, fuckem. you cant do the time, don't do the crime.
(liam Neeson?? sheesh you gotta think more hard core than that!!) |
Did you see the bit where about 20% of detainees were released without charge? That suggests that innocents were being hurt, killed, maimed, etc. And because there were no lawyers, no courts, no appeal mechanisms, they had no way of being able to plead their innocence. Is that the kind of justice you think a society like ours should endorse? |
And if one of those 20% was your daughter, TP? That's the real test. It's like people who support wars they know they'll never fight. |
It's actually not the real test. Not unless she is over there fighting for the Taliban. And I'd fricken lock her up myself for that!
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think positive
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| 3.14159 wrote: | I think he will get to make a few bucks for the 6 years spent uncharged and abandoned in Guantanamo.
It shouldn't be a crime to tell the world what went on in these places (Abu Grave and others).
He will not get an apology, he certainly won't get any compo, he is an unemployable pariah yet they are still punishing him!
| wrote: |
He served six years in maximum security detention at Guantanamo Bay, and was finally released in 2007 in exchange for pleading guilty to a controversial US Military Commission set up by President George W Bush. There was, in the end, no trial.
As part of the agreement, Hicks was banned from profiting from the sale of his story. The military commission, under which normal rules of evidence did not apply, has now been disbanded by the Obama administration. As a result of this, Hicks’ US lawyers apparently say his conviction by this body is now null and void and any conditions of this conviction are also extinguished.
In reference to this, the Australian Federal Police are currently seeking a brief from Attorney General Robert McClelland as to whether Hicks is potentially breaking any law if he were to profit from sales of his autobiography. |
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His conviction couldn't be upheld retrospectively that doent make him innocent. And I still recall the pictures of him shooting a rocket launcher, from the other side of the fence. He could always go get a job in Afghanistan.
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David
I dare you to try
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http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/dec/12/cia-torture-homeland-24-great-tv-no-way-to-govern
| Quote: | Even a public reared on Homeland, 24 and Zero Dark Thirty were shocked by what they read. Viewers who had flinched at Jack Bauer’s brutal approach to interrogation learned this week that that was hardly the product of an over-active Hollywood imagination. On the contrary, it turns out the screenwriters underdid it.
Sure, Homeland has Carrie and her colleagues cutting corners, but they’ve never performed “rectal rehydration”, a form of anal rape whose origins lie in the medieval torture of inflating the intestines with viscous material for the sole purpose of causing extreme internal pain. The 24 audience might be able to tolerate the odd glimpse of waterboarding, but to know that it was inflicted on one man 183 times in a month would have been too much to stomach. Few television producers would have risked showing a detainee chained to an overhead bar for 22 hours a day, wearing nothing but a nappy. Or men kept like dogs in kennels. Or the detainee so brutalised that, at the click of an interrogator’s fingers, he would pliantly lie down, ready to be waterboarded yet again. |
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think positive
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Ok so that's a little to Taliban for even me
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think positive
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HAL
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David
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This gets good about two paragraphs in:
| Quote: | | As we all know, CNN is a heavily left leaning news outlet |
| Quote: | | Sometimes the questions that need answers takes a bit of persuasion, which is exactly what Liberal cry babies are whining about now. |
Yep, just a bit of persuasion. A bit of enhanced interrogation. Funny how words can be used to make terrible things seem less terrible, isn't it?
| Quote: | | What do you think – do terrorists deserve to be treated as humans despite their own reluctance to treat others in such a way, or does it sometimes take fire to fight fire? |
And do people who aren't even terrorists deserve to be treated like victims of terrorism? I guess if they're Muslim it's probably okay.
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think positive
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Jesus $£$%^%%$ Christ David. Do you not see that womans point of view at all? Or does it just not fit your I hate white people agenda?
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OEP 
Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Location: Perth
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Terrorist and torture, should we or shouldn't we. Personally I'm all for causing terrorists as much physical and mental pain as possible but as an information gathering tool is highly untrustworthy. As someone else has already mentioned each individual being tortured will have a limit on what they can absorb once they've reached that limit they'll tell you anything you want to hear to stop it continuing. Plus you'll have people that will pass on false or misleading information during torture as a way of adding weight to a story that may otherwise not have been believed.
I'm actually surprised they used so many physical methods and not exclusively psychological and chemical methods to extract information.
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Last edited by OEP on Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:43 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
I dare you to try
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Her argument is pretty much the same one we've heard from the US for over a decade: "they attacked us first, so they're fair game". The trouble being that the word "they" is pretty loosely defined; and, besides, there's the question of whether lowering themselves to the terrorists' level actually helps America's cause.
As for the article itself, condemning people who oppose torture as 'liberal crybabies' is a pretty dismissive response to a complicated and disturbing issue.
By the way, I'm not quite sure what vendetta you think I have against white people, considering I'm more or less one myself. Who ever said this was about ethnicity?
(By the way, I'd advise against people clicking on that link if you're using a handheld device—it floods your application with adware popups.)
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think positive
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Check out your new thread, you feel guilty not watching white cops kill black guys!
Did you also see the videos about the White cops not arresting the black women (there's been a couple lately) but taking her two car loads of groceries too?
You seem to be a white apologist!
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David
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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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I'm not sure what led you to that conclusion. Do I usually make negative comments about people of European descent?
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