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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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| Post subject: The Rookie philosophy |  |
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I was talking about our new picks with a friend last night and he asked a couple of questions I couldn't answer. So over to you Nicksters.
1. Why didn't Collingwood pick Michael Manteit with Draft pick 75 rather than as a Rookie? Is it purely a financial decision?
2. What was stopping another club from picking Tony Armstrong ahead of us?
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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| Post subject: Re: The Rookie philosophy | |
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | I was talking about our new picks with a friend last night and he asked a couple of questions I couldn't answer. So over to you Nicksters.
1. Why didn't Collingwood pick Michael Manteit with Draft pick 75 rather than as a Rookie? Is it purely a financial decision?
2. What was stopping another club from picking Tony Armstrong ahead of us? |
Not sure about Q1, but the answer to Q2 is - his ability. 
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Rick
Joined: 11 May 2008
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I've thought that myself. I did see that Geelong picked up Cam Delaney after he was delisted by the Roos who had planned to relist him as a rookie.
It must come down to list positioning and TPP. |
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gurugeoff
Joined: 09 Oct 2013
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| Post subject: Re: The Rookie philosophy | |
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | I was talking about our new picks with a friend last night and he asked a couple of questions I couldn't answer. So over to you Nicksters.
1. Why didn't Collingwood pick Michael Manteit with Draft pick 75 rather than as a Rookie? Is it purely a financial decision?
2. What was stopping another club from picking Tony Armstrong ahead of us? |
i would think, maybe
1/. gives us the chance to elevate any rookie during the year, which can be the one showing the best form, or the one needed most by position. [didn't we elevate a rookie at the start of last year, and the year before? wasn't it Hudson one year]
2/. Armstrong is under contract to us. Apparently you can swap players between the lists, but their salary would remain under the main cap.
but you are right in that we didn't rate Manteit highly enough to risk loosing him to someone else. |
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On the March
Joined: 14 Feb 2004
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In regard to point one it does actually save money as only a proportion of the rookies salary will count in TPP and how much will depend on if he plays seniors and how many.
From the AFL player Rules (page 60) (Note this is part of how the Swans manage their salary cap)
"all payments made by a Club to a Player listed on its Rookie List are excluded as Football Payments for the purposes of calculating a Club’s Total Player Payments"
There are exceptions and partial recognition for nominated and promoted rookies during the year where some payment may have to be included.
Rules here
http://old.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/AFL_Rules_-_October_2013_CURRENT.pdf
In regard to point 2 anyone could have picked him but it has become accepted practice not to happen and let them slide through. Note if someone did pick him up, and he was under contract, we would have been liable under the TPP for the difference between his new and old contract. Its become an accepted option for list and TPP management. |
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Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
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What stopped another club from picking up Armstrong before us? Simple he is a dud. Unless we have injuries he won't get a senior game. It was a waste of a selection in my view. Happy to be proven wrong.
Clubs Rookie list players as a challenge, it sends a message that the ball is in their court. Improve or you are out. |
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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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If he was valued by us we wouldn't have risked it
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The Pretender
Joined: 26 May 2013
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| Post subject: Re: The Rookie philosophy | |
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| King Monkey wrote: | | Neil Appleby wrote: |
2. What was stopping another club from picking Tony Armstrong ahead of us? |
Not sure about Q1, but the answer to Q2 is - his ability. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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Regarding Q1, ND picks get a minimum 2 year contract, pretty sure Rookies get 1 originally, so it makes sense to rookie guys with question marks over their behavior etc.
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GoWoodsmen
Joined: 18 Apr 2005
Location: Australia
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| Post subject: Re: The Rookie philosophy | |
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | I was talking about our new picks with a friend last night and he asked a couple of questions I couldn't answer. So over to you Nicksters.
1. Why didn't Collingwood pick Michael Manteit with Draft pick 75 rather than as a Rookie? Is it purely a financial decision?
2. What was stopping another club from picking Tony Armstrong ahead of us? |
Neil... despite people pot shotting Tony .. I believe any club could have picked him - it has nothing to do with contract status. However, I believe there is an unwritten rule that clubs who have indicated they will re-draft an existing player as a rookie are left to their own devices. One day someone will do the dirty but let's be honest, you don't delist a player in the first place if you're sure of what they offer to the team/club.
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| On the March wrote: | In regard to point one it does actually save money as only a proportion of the rookies salary will count in TPP and how much will depend on if he plays seniors and how many.
From the AFL player Rules (page 60) (Note this is part of how the Swans manage their salary cap)
"all payments made by a Club to a Player listed on its Rookie List are excluded as Football Payments for the purposes of calculating a Club’s Total Player Payments"
There are exceptions and partial recognition for nominated and promoted rookies during the year where some payment may have to be included.
Rules here
http://old.aflpa.com.au/images/uploads/AFL_Rules_-_October_2013_CURRENT.pdf
In regard to point 2 anyone could have picked him but it has become accepted practice not to happen and let them slide through. Note if someone did pick him up, and he was under contract, we would have been liable under the TPP for the difference between his new and old contract. Its become an accepted option for list and TPP management. |
Q1. Yeah, this. Cost saving and 1 year contracts for rookies v 2 for NDees.
Q2. Yes, another team could grab him but clubs rarely try to demote players to the rookie list that are likely to be attractive to other clubs. It's a risk they seem happy to take and clubs rarely get caught out.
Last edited by jackcass on Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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With us not using pick 75 it will allow us to upgrade Frost as the nominated rookie on to our senior list before the start of the season.
Hine probably weighed up the fact that Manteit would most likely last till our rookie pick and that Frost deserved a more permanent senior list upgrade than that of a LTI upgrade would have provided.
With Frost as the nominated rookie we can now use the LTI of Scharenberg and Macaffer to upgrade two more players if we so wish.
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Post subject: Re: The Rookie philosophy | |
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| GoWoodsmen wrote: | | Neil Appleby wrote: | I was talking about our new picks with a friend last night and he asked a couple of questions I couldn't answer. So over to you Nicksters.
1. Why didn't Collingwood pick Michael Manteit with Draft pick 75 rather than as a Rookie? Is it purely a financial decision?
2. What was stopping another club from picking Tony Armstrong ahead of us? |
Neil... despite people pot shotting Tony .. I believe any club could have picked him - it has nothing to do with contract status. However, I believe there is an unwritten rule that clubs who have indicated they will re-draft an existing player as a rookie are left to their own devices. One day someone will do the dirty but let's be honest, you don't delist a player in the first place if you're sure of what they offer to the team/club. |
So then why did Geelong pick up Delaney under the nose of North Melbourne before North were able to redraft him. Let's be realistic here. No one was planning to take Armstrong before us. I'm wondering, did we have an arrangement last year with Sydney that they would only release White on the condition that we took Armstrong as well? |
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Greeningsrevenge2010
Joined: 04 Dec 2014
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| Culprit wrote: | What stopped another club from picking up Armstrong before us? Simple he is a dud. Unless we have injuries he won't get a senior game. It was a waste of a selection in my view. Happy to be proven wrong.
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But that is why he's there, depth for injuries, he comes in and gets his 16 disposals and you can count on that.. it's far better than playing a kid who isn't ready yet |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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I thought Armstrong stepped up well when given the chance during the season. Certainly played with heart and showed a quite a few more talented players how to go about it!
Glad we have him on our list - he might be a back-up player primarily but he is made of the right stuff and when asked to back-up he did a good job.
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