Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index
 The RulesThe Rules FAQFAQ
   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   CalendarCalendar   SearchSearch 
Log inLog in RegisterRegister
 
Parents Always Know Best, Right? New Sandy Hook Report

Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern
 
Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 7:59 am
Post subject: Parents Always Know Best, Right? New Sandy Hook ReportReply with quote

I can't vouch for the accuracy or even-handedness of this, but in general it's hardly surprising to see wealth buy the right to endanger others.

I post this of course as a counter to the deafening cry of "I know what's best for my child!", which in many cases actually means, "This is about me getting what I want; forget my child!"

No doubt those cries are as many times actually correct, but to focus only on those cries is political mischief. How many head kickings do teachers/psychs/counselors/social workers get even when they're dead right? It is due to the fact such cases are almost never ever reported that we are left to review extreme examples like this.

Whatever the case, to either not notice these things about your own bloody child, and/or to live in such denial, and/or to care more about your public reputation than your child's well-being (and in the end everyone else's well-being), surely indicates you're part of a three-way mental illness.

=====
=====

Sandy Hook shooter’s mother overpowered doctors who advised ‘rigorous treatment’

ADAM Lanza was a troubled boy. He was unmedicated, obsessed with mass murder and had access to guns.

But rather than submitting her child to the rigorous treatment recommended by some of the world’s top doctors, Nancy Lanza overpowered them.

Adam refused medication and stayed at home playing video games surrounded by his cache of guns, while his parents continued to shelter him from a world with which he couldn’t interact.

A chilling new report asks whether the race and affluence of Adam Lanza’s family influenced decisions about how to care for his mental health problems in the years before he committed the 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School massacre.

Among the findings in the report, which has been released today by the state office of Child Advocate, is that Lanza’s parents and educators contributed to his social isolation by accommodating — and not confronting — his difficulties engaging with the world.

The report said recommendations from Yale psychologists that he be medicated and undergo rigorous treatment as a child for anxiety and other conditions were rejected by his mother, who eventually took him out of school.

“Is the community more reluctant to intervene and more likely to provide deference to the parental judgment and decision-making of white, affluent parents than those caregivers who are poor or minority?” the report asks.

Would (Adam Lanza’s) caregivers’ reluctance to maintain him in school or a treatment program have gone under the radar if he were a child of colour?”

Lanza’s father is a financial services executive. The son and his mother lived in an exclusive neighbourhood in the wealthy bedroom community, 110km north of Manhattan.

Research has found that upper-middle-class parents are far more likely to be resistant, defensive and even litigious when presented with treatment options suggested by school service providers, said Suniya Luthar, a professor of Psychology at Arizona State University, who has written extensively on the topic of affluence and mental health.

Deferring to those parents can have grave consequences, allowing nascent problems to escalate to serious and sometimes dangerous levels, she said.

“Even though some of these parents can be very intimidating, schools need to hang tough,” she said. “If there is a psychologist, a teacher or a social worker who believes this child is headed for deep trouble, they need to hang tough.”

The report concluded that Lanza’s autism spectrum disorder and other psychiatric problems did not cause or lead directly to the massacre.
But it found that his “severe and deteriorating internalised mental health problems” when combined with a preoccupation with violence, and access to deadly weapons, “proved a recipe for mass murder.”

Lanza killed his mother then shot his way into the Newtown school on December 14, 2012, and gunned down 20 children and six educators before committing suicide.

Lanza’s obsessions with firearms, death and mass shootings have been documented by police files, and investigators previously concluded the motive for the shootings may never be known.

But in exploring what could have been done differently, the new report honed in on his mother, Nancy Lanza, who backed her son’s resistance to medication and from the 10th grade on kept him at home, where he was surrounded by an arsenal of firearms and spent long hours playing violent video games.

“Mrs. Lanza’s approach to try and help him was to actually shelter him and protect him and pull him further away from the world, and that in turn turned out to be a very tragic mistake,” said Julian Ford, one of the report’s authors, at a news conference.

The authors said Lanza’s parents tried to obtain help for him in variety of ways, but they did not know which path to take and appeared not to grasp the depth and severity of his disabilities. His parents were divorced, and Lanza had not seen his father for two years. After 2008, his parents did not appear to seek any mental health treatment for him, and there was no sustained input from a mental health provider after 2006, according to the report.

The one provider that seemed to understand the gravity of his condition, the Yale Child Study Center, evaluated him in 2006 and called for rigorous daily therapy and medication for conditions including anxiety. At the time, a Yale psychiatrist warned there was risk to creating a “prosthetic environment which spares him having to encounter other students or to work to overcome his social difficulties,” according to the report.

The day after the evaluation, Nancy Lanza told the doctor by email that her son would not agree to any sort of medication and that he had been angered by the doctor’s line of questioning. The Yale recommendations went largely unheeded.

Joseph Erardi Jr., who became superintendent of schools for Newtown this year, said the report will have great meaning if “there is one school leader, one district, one mental health provider or one set of parents who reads this work and can prevent such a heinous crime.”

He also said wealth and race will never be a factor when deciding how to treat a child in his school system.

“There will never, ever under my watch be a decision made based on race, colour, creed, or wealth index ... never,” he said. “I feel very strongly about this and would never allow this type of influence in any way.”

http://www.news.com.au/world/sandy-hook-shooters-mother-overpowered-doctors-who-advised-rigorous-treatment/story-fndir2ev-1227131736436

_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:17 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

I struggle to think of an ideal solution for this. Should parents who refuse to abide by therapists' recommendations be prosecuted, or even lose custody? Or are there other ways of enforcing treatment programs?
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail MSN Messenger  
pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:41 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

David wrote:
I struggle to think of an ideal solution for this. Should parents who refuse to abide by therapists' recommendations be prosecuted, or even lose custody? Or are there other ways of enforcing treatment programs?

That's the least of the article's concerns. The weight of affluence and race on bending the behaviour of others was the primary focus.

My main concern was the current content bias in relation to those in the thankless position of "daring" to question parents.

It's not that such professionals are always right, but that if popular discourse and coverage are anything to go by, they're always wrong. And a lot of that discourse is spin driven by the privatising crowd and upper-middle aspirationals trying to separate themselves from the riff-raff.

Professional advice needs to be weighed carefully, not summarily dismissed, and certainly not mocked when the consequences can be that serious. It is irresponsible to keep eroding confidence in such professionals generally without serious data to the contrary.

_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:12 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

The report is available on the internet for free. There is no need to rely upon a sensationalised report by a journalist who thought the rhetorical questions on page 88 were the best bit. Here is the link: http://www.ct.gov/oca/lib/oca/sandyhook11212014.pdf

The report demonstrates that Nancy Lanza (who was, of course, the first victim of her son's mass murder) spent a lot of time and energy trying to get help for him, from a very early age. It concludes, in substance, that there were gaps in services and communication problems that led to the murderer not receiving appropriate services.

It is, of course, useful for a report to be prepared about systemic failures that may have contributed to the severity of the problem but the most important point is that:

"While authors’ focus has been on AL’s psychological deterioration, we reiterate that this should not be taken to mean that we do not recognize the ubiquitous role that guns, and especially assault weapons with high capacity magazines, play in mass murder. In fact, while mental illness plays only a small role in violence in America, assault weapons are an increasingly common denominator in violent crimes. The widespread access to assault weapons and high capacity ammunition is an urgent public health concern."

Whatever Nancy's failings as a parent might have been, the principal one was owning so many weapons to which the killer had access.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:12 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
There is no need to rely upon a sensationalised report by a journalist who thought the rhetorical questions on page 88 were the best bit.

Agreed; my interest was actually a general one of content bias.

Pies4shaw wrote:
The report demonstrates that Nancy Lanza (who was, of course, the first victim of her son's mass murder) spent a lot of time and energy trying to get help for him, from a very early age.

What does "a lot of time and energy" mean? If the key findings are any guide, that conclusion far from what the report has in mind. In fact, it gets surprisingly close to scathing of her in some spots.

Great link to the doc, and you're dead right on guns and systemic failures (as you say, the latter is standard fare), but a good portion of the 37 key findings reflect extremely badly on the parents:

====
====

4. There were early indications of AL’s preoccupation with violence, depicted by extremely graphic writings that appeared to have been largely unaddressed by schools and possibly by parents.

6. AL had several sessions with a community psychiatrist between age 13 and 15, though there are no medical records regarding this physician’s treatment. Through brief correspondence with the school the psychiatrist supported Mrs. Lanza’s desire to withdraw AL from the school setting in 8th grade.

8. Recommendations from the Yale Child Study Center, where AL was evaluated at age 14 (AL’s 9th grade year), offered prescient observations that withdrawal from school and a strategy of accommodating AL, rather than addressing his underlying needs, would lead to a deteriorating life of dysfunction and isolation.

11. Yale’s recommendations for extensive special education supports, ongoing expert consultation, and rigorous therapeutic supports embedded into AL’s daily life went largely unheeded.

12. AL’s resistance to medication recommended for treatment of his Anxiety and Obsessive Compulsive Disorders appeared to be reinforced by his mother. According to records, AL disagreed with his Asperger’s diagnosis and may not have understood the benefit of
individual therapy.

14. Though AL showed initial progress in 10th grade with the school’s plan to incrementally return him to the school environment, his progress was short-lived. By the spring of that year, AL had again withdrawn from most of his classes and had reverted to working on his own or with tutors.

15. AL’s parents (and the school) appeared to conceptualize him as intellectually gifted, and much of AL’s high school experience catered to his curricular needs. In actuality, psychological testing performed by the school district in high school indicated AL’s cognitive abilities were average.

17. Records indicate that the school system cared about AL’s success but also unwittingly enabled Mrs. Lanza’s preference to accommodate and appease AL through the educational plan’s lack of attention to social-emotional support, failure to provide related services, and agreement to AL’s plan of independent study and early graduation at age 17.

18. AL and his parents did not appear to seek or participate in any mental health treatment after 2008. No sustained input from any mental health provider is documented in AL’s educational record or medical record after 2006.

19. Though AL was profoundly impaired by anxiety and Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, his parents may not have understood the depth or implications of his disabilities, including his need for ongoing support.

20. AL’s pediatric records from age 13 to 17 note his obsessive compulsive behaviors, markedly underweight presentation, psychiatric diagnoses, and repeated homebound or independent study, but records don’t clearly address AL’s need for mental health treatment, and often note during high school years that no medication or psychiatric treatment was being provided.

21. AL’s adult medical records do not reflect awareness or diagnosis of ongoing mental health issues.

22. AL progressively deteriorated in the last years of his life, eventually living in virtual social isolation.

23. AL stopped communicating with his father in 2010 and did not respond to numerous emails Mr. Lanza sent between 2010 and 2012 seeking to spend time with him.

27. In the waning months of AL’s life, when his mother noted that he would not leave the house and seemed despondent, it is not clear that any measures were taken to curtail his access to guns or whether the family considered AL’s potential for suicide.

28. AL was anorexic at the time of death, measuring 6 feet tall and weighing only 112 pounds. Authors cannot determine what concerns were raised by his mother regarding his eating ability or habits, or his continued emaciation during this time.

29. In the wake of Mrs. Lanza’s stated plan to move out of Sandy Hook in 2012, and perhaps stimulated by fears of leaving the “comfort zone” of his home, AL planned and executed the massacre at Sandy Hook Elementary School on December 14, 2012.

_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Wokko Pisces

Come and take it.


Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:21 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Even as an avid supporter of the right to own firearms for peaceful, law abiding citizens for whatever reasons they see fit, I can't understand how anyone would allow their profoundly mentally ill son to have access to them.

A gun safe with a combination or a fingerprint scanner would have been sufficient to prevent Adam having access (easy to steal a key). A shotgun is the best weapon for home defence by a mile, so having your rifles locked away until using them for hunting, target shooting whatever just makes sense.

I also wonder why as a society we were so quick to end institutional custody for the profoundly mentally ill. Surely special care in an asylum with modern comforts (don't think 19th century hellhole) is better than having parents and schools trying to fumble their way through the largely misunderstood minefield of mental illness.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:26 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
The report is available on the internet for free. There is no need to rely upon a sensationalised report by a journalist who thought the rhetorical questions on page 88 were the best bit. Here is the link: http://www.ct.gov/oca/lib/oca/sandyhook11212014.pdf

The report demonstrates that Nancy Lanza (who was, of course, the first victim of her son's mass murder) spent a lot of time and energy trying to get help for him, from a very early age. It concludes, in substance, that there were gaps in services and communication problems that led to the murderer not receiving appropriate services.

It is, of course, useful for a report to be prepared about systemic failures that may have contributed to the severity of the problem but the most important point is that:

"While authors’ focus has been on AL’s psychological deterioration, we reiterate that this should not be taken to mean that we do not recognize the ubiquitous role that guns, and especially assault weapons with high capacity magazines, play in mass murder. In fact, while mental illness plays only a small role in violence in America, assault weapons are an increasingly common denominator in violent crimes. The widespread access to assault weapons and high capacity ammunition is an urgent public health concern."

Whatever Nancy's failings as a parent might have been, the principal one was owning so many weapons to which the killer had access.



I disagree.

I grew up in the 70's in the NSW country in a house that had many firearms in it, and I wasn't unique in that. Many kids at that time in rural environments had guns laying around. The laws at the time were such you could buy firearms at clearing sales with no requirement for ID, a licence or registering it.

I don't recall many rural kids with access to weapons doing anything like this.

Also, IIRC in this case the guns were actually kept in a locked gun safe, unlike the majority of gun owners in the USA, but her son knew where the key was.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:27 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

If he didn't have access to the weaponry, he properly would have struggled to kill so many people so quickly, even if he'd watched The Empire Strikes Back and practised really, really hard.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
think positive Libra

Side By Side


Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:28 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

its got to be bloody hard for any parent to have a child with such evil intent, and hindsight is always 20/20. fact is if the guns were not there, this would not have happened. I don't really think its a matter of wealth or colour. a mother gets the final say in most things re a child, unless shes really £$%$ed up herself, and I mean really.

the kid had mental problems, the guns should not have been there. a kid around a bunch of guns doenst mean he will be a killer, but just the same, if someone gets pissed off, a gun makes a snap decision so much worse.

it was just an disaster waiting to happen. hopefully something is learnt from it.

_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either!


Last edited by think positive on Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:31 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
If he didn't have access to the weaponry, he properly would have struggled to kill so many people so quickly, even if he'd watched The Empire Strikes Back and practised really, really hard.
I don't follow your reasoning.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
Pies4shaw Leo

pies4shaw


Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:36 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

That probably means I'm on to something, HAL.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 1:39 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

I get it. Enough about me, let's talk about the Pies.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website  
stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:11 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

Pies4shaw wrote:
If he didn't have access to the weaponry, he properly would have struggled to kill so many people so quickly, even if he'd watched The Empire Strikes Back and practised really, really hard.


Ha, agreed but its one of those sort of arguments. Judging the mothers actions by Australian standards when she lives in a different culture is problematic.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:48 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

think positive wrote:
its got to be bloody hard for any parent to have a child with such evil intent, and hindsight is always 20/20. fact is if the guns were not there, this would not have happened. I don't really think its a matter of wealth or colour. a mother gets the final say in most things re a child, unless shes really £$%$ed up herself, and I mean really.

the kid had mental problems, the guns should not have been there. a kid around a bunch of guns doenst mean he will be a killer, but just the same, if someone gets pissed off, a gun makes a snap decision so much worse.

it was just an disaster waiting to happen. hopefully something is learnt from it.

The issue for me is the other side of the current populist "parents know best" claim. On many or even most things, sure. But you never hear about this side of the argument. Should parents be held accountable for ignoring professional advice? This looks a lot like self-protective neglect if you read the findings I've highlighted above.

My actual view, assuming the findings are reasonable, is that the three of them were all part of the one systemic family dysfunction, so in reality no one is to blame. They were sadly ill, while the line between professional help and family privacy has been drawn so firmly people in the helping professions are scared of getting involved and pushing too hard for fear of blame and litigation.

My point is you never hear about the latter problem in the media. You hear about the failings of the helping professions, but never about the failings of those who push helping professionals and institutions around, and trash talk them privately and publically.

The loose trash talk of healthcare and education is a major driver behind the disgraceful push for tiered user-pay services promoted by the likes of Abbott and co., despite the universal delivery of healthcare and education being among a small handful of very stable correlates with advanced human development.

_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
ronrat 



Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: Thailand

PostPosted: Mon Nov 24, 2014 4:28 am
Post subject: Reply with quote

Loose trash talk is so American and so wrong.
_________________
Annoying opposition supporters since 1967.
Back to top  
View user's profile Send private message  
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Nick's Collingwood Bulletin Board Forum Index -> Victoria Park Tavern All times are GMT + 11 Hours

Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 1 of 5   

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum



Privacy Policy

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group