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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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A reduction in the institutional bias against prosecuting "important" men would be a significant part of it. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003 Location: Andromeda
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stui magpie wrote: | I wonder what it is about society now that makes people feel more able to come out with these complainst thatn they did in the past?
Leave out the percentage of false (for whatever reason) complaints, there's been an increasing number of things raised in recent years that happened years and decades ago, involving the spectrum from public figures, entertainers and priests and teachers.
Potentially some of these complaints were made at the time and were hushed up and papered over as with the Catholic church, or they weren't made at the time because the person believed they would be ridiculed for making allegations against a much loved celebrity and accused of being nothing but a liar and a gold digger.
Something's happened in recent years that has freed people up to make these complaints. |
I think it's mostly about cultural change. Because there was so much silence about sexual abuse (and sex in general) in generations past, people thought it was a much rarer phenomenon than it is. The chances of having claims of abuse believed were, as you say, much lower. That situation has changed radically in the last twenty years or so.
One thing that we tend to see with Rolf Harris (and possibly in this case) is that one public claim gives other victims the courage to speak up as well—they realise that they're not on their own. The same probably goes for the Catholic Church as a whole.
Considering that the silence over sexual abuse didn't just prevent justice from taking its course but also probably enabled many acts of abuse in the first place, I'd say things have definitely changed for the better. The only bad thing about it has been that the public shock of finding out about all these crimes at once has led at times to panicky, overreactive laws and cultural responses. My hope is that our collective societal trauma over this is abating, and we can start taking a slightly more clear-eyed and rational approach to the issue. _________________ All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Pies4shaw wrote: | Is there a significant propagandist interest in Bill Cosby on Nick's? |
A local politician sandwiched between three overseas entertainers? Did you fail that section of the IQ test? _________________ In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005 Location: somewhere
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Pies4shaw wrote: | A reduction in the institutional bias against prosecuting "important" men would be a significant part of it. |
yep,
the simple fact that a couple of famous guys don't buy their way out of a "problem" means others have faith in the justice system,
maybe it started with " I did not have sex with that woman"
whatever, its a good thing. _________________ You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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3.14159
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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David wrote: |
3 and PTID, while I agree that it's a bit of a stretch to include Shorten in this list, I think it's also deeply wrong to call the complainant in that instance an "attention-seeking nobody" without evidence. Our culture has dismissed women who claim to be sexual assault victims for way too long, particularly when their accusations are levelled at the famous or powerful. It's an uneasy balance to allow the accused the presumption of innocence whilst taking alleged victims' claims seriously, but it's crucial that that balance be maintained. |
While I totally agree with your sentiments David not all woman are saints and not all men are sinners.*
The timing and lack of any creditable evidence in the claims against Shorten seem to suggest thatin this particular instance it is nothing more than a smear attack.
It seems to me a troubled woman has been hood-winked into making these claims for political reasons.
(They'd just won the election but wasted no time preparing the ground-work for any future personal attacks on the new leader).
Stui, I'm sorry I called you contemptible.
Your decent enough man but I'm 100% over the dirty politics, personal attacks and ideological bloody-mindedness that has taken over politics in this country!
I want to open the paper and read rational debate about the issues that concern me and mine!
Last edited by 3.14159 on Sun Nov 23, 2014 6:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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3.14159 wrote: |
Stui, I'm sorry I called you contemptible.
Your decent enough man but I'm 100% over the dirty politics, personal attacks and ideological bloody-mindedness that has taken over politics in this country! |
See that's whats wrong with our country these days, no one is prepared to go the man and keep them down
They have to apologise and go all matey matey.
Whatever happened to holding a grudge? |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Bill's Lawyer addresses claims:
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2014/11/22/bill-cosby-lawyer-criticizes-media-in-statement/?intcmp=features
As for there being some agenda against Cosby, he has recently been scathing of black culture and parents in causing the problems in the black community. I hadn't heard much of anything from Cosby until quite recently so if you were looking for a conspiracy against the guy that's where you'd start to look.
FWIW it does seem strange that all these 'cases' suddenly pop up with the same details all within a couple of weeks of each other. Sure, there may be an element of 'safety in numbers', women willing to tell their stories when not alone BUT there have been past allegations which these women could have used as reasons to put their own forward. It all smells a bit fishy.
Sure, sexual assault is an under reported crime that is very difficult to convict. It is also one of the most common falsely reported crime as a mere accusation with little or no evidence is enough to cause enormous difficulty to the accused and the accuser is very rarely held to account for making these false accusations.
Anytime someone wants to make these claims in the media rather than a court room at the time of the offence then I'm going to be very skeptical and err on the side of caution and innocence of the accused. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005 Location: In flagrante delicto
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3.14159 wrote: | David wrote: |
3 and PTID, while I agree that it's a bit of a stretch to include Shorten in this list, I think it's also deeply wrong to call the complainant in that instance an "attention-seeking nobody" without evidence. Our culture has dismissed women who claim to be sexual assault victims for way too long, particularly when their accusations are levelled at the famous or powerful. It's an uneasy balance to allow the accused the presumption of innocence whilst taking alleged victims' claims seriously, but it's crucial that that balance be maintained. |
While I totally agree with your sentiments David not all woman are saints and not all men are sinners.*
The timing and lack of any creditable evidence in the claims against Shorten seem to suggest thatin this particular instance it is nothing more than a smear attack.
It seems to me a troubled woman has been hood-winked into making these claims for political reasons.
(They'd just won the election but wasted no time preparing the ground-work for any future personal attacks on the new leader).
Stui, I'm sorry I called you contemptible.
Your decent enough man but I'm 100% over the dirty politics, personal attacks and ideological bloody-mindedness that has taken over politics in this country!
I want to open the paper and read rational debate about the issues that concern me and mine! |
Mate, apology accepted, no issue on my part and for the record including Shorten was not for any devious agenda, it was as simple as he too has faced allegations recently on actions that occurred decades ago.
Am I trying to compare his character with that of Saville? No, I'm not. The comparison begins and ends with the allegations being raised.
Sometimes there is no hidden agenda, sometimes stuff is what it is on face value. |
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