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Cracks in Teflon Bills image after sexual assault claims

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 6:55 pm
Post subject: Cracks in Teflon Bills image after sexual assault claimsReply with quote

Must be the year to bring forward sexual assault claims against public figures from decades ago.

We've had:

Jimmy Saville ,seriously creepy mofo who died before he could be prosecuted

Rolf. No, Not ROFL, ROLF. Rolf Harris. I'll never be able to listen to "2 little boys" the same way again.

Basil Brush completed the trifecta when he laid claims of a BBC employee constantly fisting him.

Bill Shorten had allegations investigated but nothing resulted.

And in the spirit of Bills, Bill Cosby is the latest one.

A number of Women are coming forward all claiming to have been sexually assaulted by Cosby and all describing the same MO. Now, after the first couple described an MO it's not difficult, if you were faking the complaint, to simply use the template now publically available, so that actually makes it more difficult to determine if the complaints are real or spurious.

Cosby is an interesting case, probably more popular among whites than black in the USA as he's been known to give poor black parents a fearful spray.

Quote:
FOR Australians in the 1980s, he was a staple of the television diet.

He was the much-loved, all-American dad known for his hysterical quips, expressive features and garish jumpers.

The voice behind Fat Albert, Bill Cosby was a pop culture icon with a squeaky-clean image.

As a Coca-Cola executive once said: “The three most believable personalities are God, Walter Cronkite and Bill Cosby.”

But if the allegations of an ever-growing chorus of women are true, the real Bill Cosby is a world away from the lovable Dr Cliff Huxtable, who won our hearts as the patriarch in the hugely successful sitcom The Cosby Show.

In every story, the alleged modus operandi is similar. As of yesterday, seven women had gone public to say that Cosby drugged and sexually assaulted them.

Cosby has never been, and is unlikely to ever be, charged. In most American states there are limits to the time in which a crime can be prosecuted.

The 77-year-old has repeatedly denied allegations of sexual assault over the years.


http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/cracks-appear-in-bill-cosbys-image-amid-sex-assault-claims/story-fni0fiyv-1227131352504?sv=9a88bb453670d1abd774f872c6edad3d

(lots more in the article, worth a read)

Now that last sentence is informative. There's been smoke for years, decades even, but no outright fire.

Given the litigious nature of US society on one hand, and the fact that it seems many states have laws that impose time limits on complaints, it may be a situation that never resolves, but in the meantime Bill is poison to the movie and TV production companies.
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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 10:19 pm
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It seems perversely fitting that all these saccharine, oppressively wholesome, family-friendly entertainers are turning out to have been predators. That kind of entertainment seems almost symptomatic of some kind of dysfunction.
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Pies4shaw Leo

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Joined: 08 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:01 pm
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Dunno. I liked Basil Brush.
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Wokko Pisces

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Joined: 04 Oct 2005


PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:42 pm
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Bill Cosby is one funny guy, love his work.

Pretty tired of accusations ruining careers. Take them to the police, not the media. Until a jury finds him guilty, he's innocent. End of story.

The way Rolf Harris got done is the right way, accusations to police, identity protected until charges laid. Public trial. Conviction. Jail. If there's not enough evidence to even bring charges then Bill should be free to ply his trade free from fear.
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3.14159 Taurus



Joined: 12 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 12:53 am
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Bill Shorten on a list including Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville?
That "accusation" dates back to 1986 when 2 kids had sex at a summer camp. They smoked some dope, had a dip in the sea and then sex in a room.
This dirty piece of mud-slinging reared it's ugly head less than 2 weeks after he became leader of the Opposition.
It was investigated by the police who found absolutely nothing to back up any of her claims.
This is the sort of filthy personal political attacks I've come to expect from the Libs.
For Stui Magpie it try and group Bill Shorten with Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville is contemptible.
It smacks of a desperation to divert attention from the continuous idiocy's of that fool Abbott and the damage he is doing to the fabric of this once proud country!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/woman-who-accuses-opposition-leader-bill-shorten-of-rape-says-police-failed-her/story-fni0fiyv-1227077027215

wrote:

The community nurse completed a 19-page police statement with detectives from Victoria Police’s sexual offences squad last October 23.
“I had three main witnesses ... I gave them the phone number of one, her maiden and married names, told them she lived in Melbourne.
“The police told me they couldn’t find her,” Kathy said.
(she spoke to one of her three witness's but the police couldn't find any of them! Rolling Eyes )
“They then said they had no evidence and the case was closed and that they weren’t going to reopen it”.
She says "no one else was present.
A number of Young Labor members had spent the evening drinking and smoking marijuana," she says.
I have got rights, and they are trying to take away my rights.
(What of the accused rights and what of the timing?)
People are treating me like a nutcase!".
“It doesn’t mean I’m stupid or I’m fabricating things.”


No, she's just an attention seeking no-body, happy to be used as a pawn by the grubby side of politricks!
Rolling Eyes
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 8:58 am
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David wrote:
It seems perversely fitting that all these saccharine, oppressively wholesome, family-friendly entertainers are turning out to have been predators. That kind of entertainment seems almost symptomatic of some kind of dysfunction.


Well only one has been proved, Rolf.

Saville stuff all came out after his death, nothing's been proved on Cosby and no-one EVER will have described Shorten as an entertainer.

What Saville and Rolf had in common was the level of celebrity at a time in the kind of culture (TV) that provided them protection to do what they wanted. It's a fair cloak for a predator to use but to suggest that all the entertainers of the type are predators would be like suggesting all Catholic Priests were.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:25 am
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3.14159 wrote:
Bill Shorten on a list including Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville?
That "accusation" dates back to 1986 when 2 kids had sex at a summer camp. They smoked some dope, had a dip in the sea and then sex in a room.
This dirty piece of mud-slinging reared it's ugly head less than 2 weeks after he became leader of the Opposition.
It was investigated by the police who found absolutely nothing to back up any of her claims.
This is the sort of filthy personal political attacks I've come to expect from the Libs.
For Stui Magpie it try and group Bill Shorten with Rolf Harris and Jimmy Saville is contemptible.
It smacks of a desperation to divert attention from the continuous idiocy's of that fool Abbott and the damage he is doing to the fabric of this once proud country!

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/woman-who-accuses-opposition-leader-bill-shorten-of-rape-says-police-failed-her/story-fni0fiyv-1227077027215

wrote:

The community nurse completed a 19-page police statement with detectives from Victoria Police’s sexual offences squad last October 23.
“I had three main witnesses ... I gave them the phone number of one, her maiden and married names, told them she lived in Melbourne.
“The police told me they couldn’t find her,” Kathy said.
(she spoke to one of her three witness's but the police couldn't find any of them! Rolling Eyes )
“They then said they had no evidence and the case was closed and that they weren’t going to reopen it”.
She says "no one else was present.
A number of Young Labor members had spent the evening drinking and smoking marijuana," she says.
I have got rights, and they are trying to take away my rights.
(What of the accused rights and what of the timing?)
People are treating me like a nutcase!".
“It doesn’t mean I’m stupid or I’m fabricating things.”


No, she's just an attention seeking no-body, happy to be used as a pawn by the grubby side of politricks!
Rolling Eyes

Yeah, that's a pretty pathetic effort, Stui. You running for a journo position at the Hun to save your despised hero, Abbott?

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 9:49 am
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stui magpie wrote:
David wrote:
It seems perversely fitting that all these saccharine, oppressively wholesome, family-friendly entertainers are turning out to have been predators. That kind of entertainment seems almost symptomatic of some kind of dysfunction.


Well only one has been proved, Rolf.

Saville stuff all came out after his death, nothing's been proved on Cosby and no-one EVER will have described Shorten as an entertainer.

What Saville and Rolf had in common was the level of celebrity at a time in the kind of culture (TV) that provided them protection to do what they wanted. It's a fair cloak for a predator to use but to suggest that all the entertainers of the type are predators would be like suggesting all Catholic Priests were.


Don't forget that guy from Hey Dad. I think there have been others picked up in Operation Yewtree, too.

3 and PTID, while I agree that it's a bit of a stretch to include Shorten in this list, I think it's also deeply wrong to call the complainant in that instance an "attention-seeking nobody" without evidence. Our culture has dismissed women who claim to be sexual assault victims for way too long, particularly when their accusations are levelled at the famous or powerful. It's an uneasy balance to allow the accused the presumption of innocence whilst taking alleged victims' claims seriously, but it's crucial that that balance be maintained.

That said, I think this is worth a read. Not necessarily relevant to Cosby's case, but an interesting observation on how corroborating claims are treated by the justice system:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_allegation_of_child_sexual_abuse

Quote:
According to support group Falsely Accused Carers and Teachers (FACT), in 2000 there was a 90% conviction rate for alleged child sex abusers as compared to just 9% for cases of adult rape. In the UK, all the post-1970 court cases that are recognized as authorities on evidence of disposition "concern charges of sexual abuse of minors". In 1991, the House of Lords judgment in Director of Public Prosecutions versus P significantly lowered the barrier to admission of similar fact evidence of disposition to commit a crime.

This, combined with the police practice of "trawling" for child abuse victims using door-to-door interviews and the potential for monetary compensation, has created opportunities and incentive for false allegations to occur.

Normally, an allegation of a criminal offence has to stand or fall on its own merits: if a witness accusing someone of sexual abuse was sufficiently credible, or could adduce supporting evidence, then an abuser would be convicted. Until 1991, multiple allegations against the same person could only be held to be mutually corroborating if there were 'striking similarities' between the alleged crimes, indicating a criminal's 'signature,' a distinct modus operandi. But the judgment removed this protection. In effect, the courts have accepted the idea of 'corroboration by volume'.

In 2002, the Home Affairs Select Committee (Fourth report, 2001/2), which dealt with police trawling practices and referred to the 'enormous difficulties' faced by those accused of child sexual abuse, recommended that the requirement for similar fact evidence to be linked by 'striking similarities' be restored in cases involving allegations of historical child abuse. However this recommendation contradicted the Government White Paper Justice for All (2002), which proposed lowering the threshold for the admission of similar fact evidence still further. The UK Government rejected the recommendation.


Lastly, suffice it to say that I strongly condemn any network that takes Cosby off air or venue that cancels his shows while these charges remain unproven.

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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:07 am
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David wrote:


3 and PTID, while I agree that it's a bit of a stretch to include Shorten in this list,


Including Shorten in the list is a counterpoint. He, like the others was accused of sexual misconduct that happened years, decades ago. In his (single) case Police determined there wasn't enough to investigate.

While Shorten has a lot more in common with Basil Brush than he does with Jimmy Saville, what he does share with the others (and yeah, the dude from Hey Dad) is that allegations were made.

The story is actually about Cosby, but if people want to make it about Abbott, why should this thread be any different.

Can someone swing in and blame GW Bush for it all before Ptiddy does?
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Culprit Cancer



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:52 am
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Rape is the most hardest case to prove. There will always be one side that says they are guilty and the other saying not guilty.
The Cosby case I find strange as there was a court case where plaintiffs were allegedly raped and were so traumatised that they didn't go to the police they went to court and got $$ and that somehow made everything OK and they are all fine now. Then we have the woman, ex model book writer who's credibility leaves a lot to be desired. Then we have today a woman say Cosby gave her a white pill and she woke up naked. Why did she take the pill? A lawyer would shoot holes in these stories hence no police action. What goes against Cosby is there are more and more women claiming they were raped. Now in the US they are awarded $$$ if he is convicted. No one is suing Robert Hughes for dollars, they were happy with a conviction.

As for Shorten, it's a conspiracy. Massive cover up by the police because decades ago they knew he would become leader of the opposition and they wanted to keep it quiet all this time. As soon as he was leader bang this came out. Same goes with Big ears being violent against a fellow student so that makes him a violent person. All these allegations that come out decades later leave a lot to be desired.

Rape should not be treated lightly but as the law stands you need proof. In my view, a woman who is raped is better off running the person who raped them over with their car rather than contacting the police. They will cop a fine and don't get to deal with being put on the stand and labelled a slut.
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pietillidie 



Joined: 07 Jan 2005


PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:56 am
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David wrote:
3 and PTID, while I agree that it's a bit of a stretch to include Shorten in this list, I think it's also deeply wrong to call the complainant in that instance an "attention-seeking nobody" without evidence.

Agreed. Blame 3 for that bit; that's not the bit I'm agreeing with.

Then again:

David wrote:
Our culture has dismissed women who claim to be sexual assault victims for way too long, particularly when their accusations are levelled at the famous or powerful. It's an uneasy balance to allow the accused the presumption of innocence whilst taking alleged victims' claims seriously, but it's crucial that that balance be maintained.

That's pretty obvious by now, especially as it seems you have repeated it 386 times over the last year! I'm not sure 3 was thinking otherwise; you might be better asking him why in this instance he said that.

Then again, that's exactly the type of content the Gliberal propaganda machine was trying to generate, so on second thoughts....

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:14 am
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I think it's worth repeating—judging from the commentary on the Woody Allen case from earlier on this year, it seems the majority of people still prefer to fall on either side of that line (either "no smoke without fire" or "she's a lying gold-digger"). I guess it comes down to what you were saying in another thread: too many people are uncomfortable admitting that they simply don't have the information to judge.
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pietillidie 



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:23 am
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^Agree on the lack of info, though loathe to keep saying it. This is why all such topics are generally propagandist by nature. Even now by bumping it up we're feeding it.
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Pies4shaw Leo

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:32 am
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Is there a significant propagandist interest in Bill Cosby on Nick's?
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stui magpie Gemini

Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.


Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2014 11:38 am
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I wonder what it is about society now that makes people feel more able to come out with these complainst thatn they did in the past?

Leave out the percentage of false (for whatever reason) complaints, there's been an increasing number of things raised in recent years that happened years and decades ago, involving the spectrum from public figures, entertainers and priests and teachers.

Potentially some of these complaints were made at the time and were hushed up and papered over as with the Catholic church, or they weren't made at the time because the person believed they would be ridiculed for making allegations against a much loved celebrity and accused of being nothing but a liar and a gold digger.

Something's happened in recent years that has freed people up to make these complaints. While you're always going to get the percentage of fakes and, as Culprit said these things are horribly difficult to prove when they're recent let alone decades old, I think it's a good thing if it makes people who are disposed to this kind of behaviour think twice.

As long as the presumption of innocence remains.
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