ADF Pay Increase

[1061]

Just listened to his interview with Mitchell on AW and not once did he say the 1.5% pay rise was inadequate not once, all he did was repeat over and over again that they should get the best possible deal.

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mitchell-blog/i-feel-grossly-misrepresented/20141112-3k4zy.html

[David]

[think positive]

[David]

As with Anzac Day, "what this day truly stands for" differs depending on who you speak to. For some, it's a day for nationalism and celebrating the concept of Australia's national identity being forged through conflict. For others, it's about hailing the service of military personnel. For others, it's a time of mourning the tragic, unnecessary bloodshed of all wars. For others (and this is how Anzac Day in particular came about), it's little more than a recruiting exercise, even today.

Although the meaning of the days has been extended to incorporate all wars that Australian forces have been involved in, I think it's telling that both were instituted in response to World War 1, arguably the most horrific, murderous and pointless conflict in the history of humankind. 60,000 young Australian men died in that war, and not one of them was fighting for our freedom or any other great cause. The vast majority, I'd wager, had little understanding of the goal or purpose of their fighting; many, many young men were seduced by romanticised stories of glory and adventure, and had no idea they would spend their last moments dying of gas poisoning in mud and shit, or being slaughtered trying to storm a beach belonging to another sovereign country. And what was the result of all this? Not a freer Australia, not a safer Australia, but a continent on the other side of the world with a few borders redrawn.

Sure, there are such things as necessary wars: our involvement in World War 2, for instance, particularly on the Pacific Front. But that seems to be the exception; how many other wars with questionable goals and motivations (none of which involved protecting the freedom of our citizens) have Australian soldiers been killed in? The Boer War, Korea, Vietnam, both Gulf Wars, Afghanistan, and now, as a consequence of our original folly, Iraq again: all wars that were dubious at best, and at worst criminally irresponsible. That, by and large, comprises the bulk of this country's history of military involvement.

So, do I believe that Remembrance Day and Anzac Day are valuable? Hell yes. For me, those tragic deaths should never be forgotten; not for the sake of celebration, but as a warning against all future follies. The people who use those days for the glorification of warfare or the deification of military service or expression of national pride completely undermine what those days should be about, in my view.

[stui magpie]

David, I recommend you get a copy of the play "One Day of the Year"

http://www.harpercollins.com.au/books/One-Day-Year-Alan-Seymour/?isbn=9780207133305

[Proud Pies]

Personally, as an ex serviceperson and someone who's family has a long tradition of being part of the Military, of fighting in WWI, WWII, Korea, Afghanistan and the Middle East, I find your opinion offensive, but thanks to all those that did go before us, and continue to do so today, you're entitled to have that opinion.

I don't 'celebrate' war, I 'celebrate' the people who gave of themselves and went to war, either voluntarily or through conscription, whether they came back to their families or like my cousin in WWI, are buried in a war grave on the other side of the world. I also THANK them all, as I do every past and current serving member of the ADF.

[Wokko]

Reminds me of this.



Also, it's not a soldier's job or responsibility to question the orders of the civilian authority. Unless you like living in a military Junta then the army follows the orders, unquestionably, of the civilian government.

Of course they have a responsibility to refuse immoral orders in the field, but the reasons for war are not the domain of the military.

[David]

^ I completely understand that Wokko—I don't at all blame soldiers for the fact that our government decided to get involved in Vietnam or Iraq. But there's a difference between seeing them as paragons of humanity and helpless pawns doing somebody else's dirty work. If you were to look at all of the soldiers in the history of the world, most would undoubtedly fall into the second category. I don't see any reason to believe Australians are an exception to that rule.

[pietillidie]

There are two quick questions for determining if someone glorying in the military warrants being listened to:

1. Does the person have a record of doing everything within their power to not send the military to fight wars, particularly dubious, corrupt and unjustified ones?

2. Does the person have a record of doing everything within their power to ensure war veterans are given sufficient treatment and compensation for their physical and psychiatric trauma?

If the answer is not "yes" to both questions the person concerned is a shallow con not worthy of your time now matter how much hot air they expend on appropriating the military for their own gain.

It goes without saying that sending people to their deaths or to traumatic life-changing injury is an absolute last resort in all cases.

[Culprit]