ISIS

[pietillidie]

[Jezza]

I'm sorry I can't sufficiently answer your questions PTID. The issue of terrorism has become a relatively new one in Australia since 9/11 occurred and I can't find any particular court case relevant to the questions you're trying to establish for yourself.

In saying that here are several links below that might be of interest to you which include court cases relating to terrorism in Australia in the first link, the second link relating to how groups are deemed to be a 'terrorist organisations' in Australia and lastly legislation in Australia that has the relevant counter-terrorist provisions implemented to prevent terrorism in Australia.

In regards to court cases if you want to read more about these cases then you can always use resources such as AustLII which is publicly available to anyone and has detailed case reports and the complete relevant legislation to a particular area of law you're looking for and trying to understand but they can be very long to read however and you may be better off trying to find summaries elsewhere if possible.

http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/Browse_by_Topic/TerrorismLaw/Courtcases

http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/Listedterroristorganisations/Pages/ProtocolForListingTerroristOrganisations.aspx

http://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/WhatAustraliaisdoing/Pages/Laws-to-combat-terrorism.aspx

Your questions are very much relevant and worth pondering over but these cannot simply be answered here and now and may not be able to answered at all for that matter so hopefully the links I've provided may assist you here but I can't make any guarantees that they will.

[Jezza]

ISIS commits its first terrorist attack but I doubt Saudi Arabia will bat an eyelid over it however considering the target was a Shia mosque.

http://www.businessinsider.com/saudi-arabia-is-on-edge-after-isis-suicide-bombing-2015-5?IR=T

[Dave The Man]

The West if Scared of ISIS as they don’t want to set off Young People in Mass would do Bombing in there countries they live in

[Jezza]

Western countries like the US, UK, France could obliterate ISIS in a day with the weapons they have but they fear the repercussions of what would happen if ISIS was obliterated because it wouldn't actually improve sectarian tensions in either Syria and Iraq and other terrorist groups will just emerge anyway.

ISIS is the biggest and well-known in the group in region but there are many groups with similar ideals and ambitions as ISIS but maybe not as extreme as them. After all Al-Qaeda itself believes that ISIS is too extreme hence the groups have split and are technically enemies now which is bizarre to say the least but the issues of the Middle East go beyond ISIS even if they're playing a major role in how things are transpiring in that part of the world.

[David]

Is that first part really true, Jezza? I don't doubt that the Coalition-of-everybody-else has the weaponry to blast ISIS back to the Stone Age, but isn't the problem that they're exceptionally good at hiding in civilian areas and not all that easily fought without a ground war?

If we're worried about backlash, I don't see why; most of the players in the region, including many extremist groups, would be pretty happy to see ISIS eradicated.

[Jezza]

In regards to the first part I was talking more in the sense of conventional warfare if we for example deployed troops in this part of the world rather than guerrilla warfare tactics that ISIS often uses to evade enemies either on the front lines or from airstrikes that have commenced since the mid-point last year where the US and its allies got involved in the conflict in this part of the world.

In terms of backlash, I think everyone unanimously agrees that ISIS being defeated would be a win for humanity as a whole but what happens to Syria when ISIS is defeated? Will Assad hold power? Or will someone like Al-Nusra Front or other splinter groups emerge out of the woodwork and become a force to be reckoned with?

Also ISIS is just a symptom of the wider problem of sectarianism. Defeating them doesn't stop sectarian tensions from continually being rampant. After all ISIS only became a force because favourable conditions like this allowed them to thrive admittedly due to the US' incompetence from the Iraq war which I've always argued was a catalyst for ISIS' rise but not necessarily the cause or creation of the group itself.

[David]

Agree with most of that, though, whatever transpires in Syria, I'm pretty sure that getting ISIS out of there would be a big step forward.

As for your first paragraph, that makes more sense—the US and its allies are probably just wary of getting too deeply involved in another guerrilla struggle they can't win.

[pietillidie]

Jezza, thanks for the new links on that stuff above. When I have time I will try to find something amongst the information which gives us a close look at the background reasoning and information quality.

I think you have more-or-less got the predicament sussed above: Few wouldn't agree with defeating and disbanding ISIS if they could trust it would achieve more good than harm at a serious level of knowledge and control. Of course, we could pretend we were pushing around black and white chess pieces in both the moral and practical senses, but that's clearly not the case.

Moreover, an oft-forgotten point is that short of NZ and Finland forming a coalition, there is no one trustworthy enough to lead such a war without it being hijacked by dangerous interests such as the oil lobby, military-security lobby, or the racist and religious right. (And we already know what Anglo-America thinks of the UN).

Just imagine if the 3T wasted on the Iraq War (which presumably doesn't include even a fraction of the costs of the ongoing chaos in the region, as well as homeland security expenditures today due to terrorism, BTW) was spent getting the world off oil. Okay, well, with the price of alternatives plummeting, now is the time. Use military force to contain the real knows (actual knowns, not public relations nonsense funded by some corrupt money grabber or unaccountable security apparatus somewhere), and spend the rest on pushing the Middle East and the rest of the world off oil.

Offer real market incentives and help guide the chaos to the best indigenous resolution possible. As the oil money dries up, so will the extremist funding. Not to mention any resolution to the overall instability has much more chance of being stable if it's based on genuinely decentralised economic activity.

Meanwhile, that will help deal with global warming, curtail the growth of nuclear because it will bring the cost of safe, clean energy further (note China is on the edge of building a stack of unsafe nuclear power plants), roll out the battery revolution which will in turn clean up air in fouled cities over the place, and push us into the post-internet economic revolution (true ubiquitous super-speed interconnectivity, AI, quantum computing—with some combination like that the steps before biogenesis and cybergenesis).

All that could have been started over a decade ago But how would Tony Blair Associates generate revenue and feel part of the global elite without the oil and fossil fuel economy?

[think positive]

[stui magpie]

Really good article on ISIS IMHO

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/the-caliphate-strikes-back/story-fni0xs61-1227373553853

[think positive]

Gees, that's well written, kept me til the bitter end, and it's scary as shit.

I can understand why the whack jobs can be brainwashed, but not the female ones. If they are allowed to fight, do they get a sex slave too? Seriously mind boggling stuff. And still scary as hell.

[Wokko]

There are many women who are as disillusioned with Western life and values and would idealize the traditional lifestyle offered. Until they get to Syria and realize what they've bought into. Isis is very, very good at propaganda.

[Culprit]

That they are Wokko.

I am happy for the Government to provide free flights for all the disillusioned. They sign away their citizenship at the departure gate. I feel it's logical that as a Country that we remove those who wish to join ISIS and let them become cannon fodder over there.

[think positive]

yup, can only help unemployment figures