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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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I love theology as much as the next guy (well probably 1000x more than the next guy who probably doesn't give a shit), but not sure if this is the place for a bible studies class. It has always been man who has decided what is and is not biblical canon so trying to find exact and specific meaning in a collection of 20 Centuries or older works from various authors, translated at least twice before reaching the English language is futile at best.
Personally I'm just glad that the The First Council of Nicaea decided on the prohibition of self-castration, really sorting out the important issues from the beginning  |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Lol. It is quite surreal that there's this entire structure of alternate universes out there in people's heads, with its own history, vocab, and secret handshakes. You do forget once you've supped with worldly fornicators of little faith for so long!
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| pietillidie wrote: | | ^Well, aren't you picky about your head-injured schizotypal personalities; Paul's in, but Ellen White's out! |
Geewillerkers PTID, is that it, wow, I expected more form you.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| I think [quote]
Geewillerkers PTID is a lot of things. |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Pa Marmo wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | ^Well, aren't you picky about your head-injured schizotypal personalities; Paul's in, but Ellen White's out! |
Geewillerkers PTID, is that it, wow, I expected more form you. |
Despite the tone he does have a point. Why accept the words of a prophet from the 1st Century but completely disregard say a Joseph Smith or Ellen White? There is no logical basis other than prejudicial bias to accept one but not the other. |
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Pa Marmo
Side by Side
Joined: 16 Jun 2003
Location: Nicks BB member #617
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| Wokko wrote: | | Pa Marmo wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | ^Well, aren't you picky about your head-injured schizotypal personalities; Paul's in, but Ellen White's out! |
Geewillerkers PTID, is that it, wow, I expected more form you. |
Despite the tone he does have a point. Why accept the words of a prophet from the 1st Century but completely disregard say a Joseph Smith or Ellen White? There is no logical basis other than prejudicial bias to accept one but not the other. |
Other than one, Rabbi Saul of Tarsus (the Apostle Paul) was a learned Hebrew who was well versed in the scriptures and lined up with Jesus Christ, Joseph Smith was a liar and a conman, and Ellen White understood the cash value of false prophecy and both bought extra biblical revelation.
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Genesis 1:1 |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| The Night wrote: | | David wrote: | Oh, this is a fun game: let's compare the worst verses in the Koran with the nicest ones in the Bible!
TN, can you then explain why for centuries the Catholic Church opposed masturbation because of an anecdote in Genesis? Or why, to this day, same-sex marriage is opposed by Christians with verses from Leviticus? |
The bible says nothing about masturbation at all, not a single verse, so Im not to sure where your headed with that one buddy. Is that why you rebelled against mum and dad, they wouldn’t let you get busy on your own? |
I hope the diligence you bring to Bible study is better than your internet reading comprehension. The Catholic Church used the story of Onan as a warning against masturbation for centuries (you might have even heard of the term "onanism", of which this thread is supplying plenty of case studies). The irony, of course, is that anyone who has actually read the story would realise that it isn't about masturbation at all.
Anyway, thanks for asking, but no, I never "rebelled" against my parents' beliefs. I simply used the 15-year-old brain that God had supposedly given me and quietly came to the conclusion that the Bible was neither a divinely inspired historical record, nor a testament to the existence of a supreme being. Say what you like about "cults" (i.e. denominations you disagree with), but I respect my parents for giving me and my siblings the intellectual freedom to come to that conclusion and not making our lives too difficult when we did.
| The Night wrote: | | David wrote: | As someone who was raised Christian, I'm utterly stumped as to why the Christian holy book, more or less the same one accepted by all Christian denominations, has always included the Old Testament if it's all supposedly rendered old hat by a few letters from Paul (which, by the way, were mostly about making Christianity more appealing to Gentiles; Hebrew Christians were still expected to be circumcised, eat Kosher food and so on). The God who demanded the wholesale genocide of Canaanite tribes is the same God whose son/incarnation gets a PR lift in the gospels, and the same God who promptly gets back to torturing humans in Revelation. But I dunno, maybe times were tough back then?
Just like Paul, of course, both Islam and Judaism have centuries of written analysis by religious scholars which reinterpret (and take the edge off the nasty bits of) the original books. Devout Muslims and Jews, like Christians, are encouraged to study this work and develop their understanding of their religion from it, not just the Koran/Torah/Bible. Of course, most casual observers just take what interests them and relates to their own lives and don't think too much about the rest. A combination of these factors helps explain why Muslims lived mostly in harmony with Jews and (Crusades aside) Christians in the Middle East for many centuries, despite the Koranic verses you list above. |
As someone raised Christian, as you put it, you certainly didn’t pay much attention, or were raised with much wrong doctrine/wrong teaching. The new testament clearly explains that the burden of Judaism isn’t to be put on the gentile church, and only todays cultic seventh Day Adventists teach such rot. I am unaware as to your upbringing, as I don’t know you from a bar of soap, but from what I’ve read on here, your not as learned in the ways of Christianity as you believe yourself to be. Perhaps a re-reading of the gospels may assist you somewhat, id suggest starting at Johns gospel, then perhaps Romans. |
I'm no biblical scholar, and I concede that my interest has waned since my teenage years, but for a while there I was doing a lot of reading. I've read the entire Bible from cover to cover, some parts of it many times over (Genesis, the chronicles of the Kings, the Gospels and Revelation were my favourite books). I dare say I know the Bible better than many church-attending Christians do. But this isn't a Bible knowledge pissing contest (or is it?).
If you knew a bit more about the Koran, you'd know that it also contains verses about respecting the "people of the book" (i.e. Christians and Jews). Jesus is also considered an important prophet, which is a good deal more generous than the way in which many Christians perceive Mohammed. As PTID says, all these holy books are full of contradictory nonsense. Amazingly, despite it all, a great number of decent people still manage to live peacefully and respectfully among their fellow human beings in spite of the disturbing teachings fundamentalists insist on highlighting. Perhaps we need to give ordinary Muslims a bit more credit for common sense.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Pa Marmo wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | ^Well, aren't you picky about your head-injured schizotypal personalities; Paul's in, but Ellen White's out! |
Geewillerkers PTID, is that it, wow, I expected more form you. |
Okay, yes, that was mean. But, he was the one diagnosing religious illnesses, you may have noticed, and in the process failing his own standards pretty badly.
Anyhow, yes, I do support your religious rights and will keep doing so, so sorry for offending you!
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: |
If you knew a bit more about the Koran, you'd know that it also contains verses about respecting the "people of the book" (i.e. Christians and Jews). Jesus is also considered an important prophet, which is a good deal more generous than the way in which many Christians perceive Mohammed. |
This thread has generally turned to shit so I've stayed out, but this part is actually a great comment.
I've never actually read the Koran but IIRC there is some tacit acknowledgement that the old testament is common between all 3 religions and that Jesus was a prophet as was mohammed. They just don't bestow divine status on Jesus which may be the source of some of the tension.
the other comment I'll make is that dick measuring contests about the content of the two books is ridiculous as, in the main, the actions of individual people doesn't come down to the writing in the book but how the official (priest/reverend/minister/cleric/mullah/ayatollah etc) delivers the particular message and interprets the word to their congregation.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^And the effectiveness of that, Stui, comes down to the strength of the authoritarian hierarchy of the culture or sub-culture concerned.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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THE ABRAHAMIC FAITHS: JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, AND ISLAM
All corrupted by the interpretation of humans (mostly men) to suit their needs and wants!
And all pretty boring fairy tales IMO - but whatever floats your boat - just float your boat and leave the rest of us to float our boats us we decide our boats need to be floated ta very much!!!!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.†|
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Morrigu wrote: | THE ABRAHAMIC FAITHS: JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, AND ISLAM
All corrupted by the interpretation of humans (mostly men) to suit their needs and wants! |
Is there any particular reason to single out the Abramic faiths?
(I must admit that they are amongst my least favourite ones, but that's probably just because I don't know enough about the others. Doubtless I'd think less of them too if I'd ever troubled to learn more about them.)
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
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| Morrigu wrote: | THE ABRAHAMIC FAITHS: JUDAISM, CHRISTIANITY, AND ISLAM
All corrupted by the interpretation of humans (mostly men) to suit their needs and wants!
And all pretty boring fairy tales IMO - but whatever floats your boat - just float your boat and leave the rest of us to float our boats us we decide our boats need to be floated ta very much!!!! |
Ditto.
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" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
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Morrigu
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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^ that's it Laird - we should be able to believe what we want and live how we see fit in accordance with our beliefs as long as those beliefs do not contravene our laws and social mores and don't impose our will on others who don't share our beliefs - it shouldn't be as hard as the current climate seems to have made it!!!
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.†|
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What if it didn't happen? |
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