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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I think your signature is very apt here, Frankie. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| 1061 wrote: | | Now lets come back to 2015 shall we! |
Why now? I would like to do that too. |
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laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
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| David wrote: | | I think your signature is very apt here, Frankie. |
It certainly is, isn't it.
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" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
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The Night 
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Lal Lal
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | To the Night and 1061, all you're doing is selecting quotes to suit your agenda, it's an easy game to play, we could go back and forth all day with this. It's these inconsistencies that lead to people turning away from religion. That's why I did. Both books are littered with evil, cruelty and senseless violence, you can't deny that. Mass murder and brutality, all in the name of both religions. You can't get stuck into one and discount another. |
Frankie, you did the exact same thing to make your case, you selected a verse from the bible to make your point. I selected several verses to show context. I think Lairds signature would apply to you here my friend.
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Who can it be now?????????????? |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Thank you "the night, now can we come back into 2015 and discuss the who and why of current events? |
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The Night
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Lal Lal
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| David wrote: | Oh, this is a fun game: let's compare the worst verses in the Koran with the nicest ones in the Bible!
TN, can you then explain why for centuries the Catholic Church opposed masturbation because of an anecdote in Genesis? Or why, to this day, same-sex marriage is opposed by Christians with verses from Leviticus? |
Christians don’t use this reference to be against the sin of homosexuality, it comes from the new testament teaching in the book of Romans. Romans 1: 26-32
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
The bible says nothing about masturbation at all, not a single verse, so Im not to sure where your headed with that one buddy. Is that why you rebelled against mum and dad, they wouldn’t let you get busy on your own?
| David wrote: | As someone who was raised Christian, I'm utterly stumped as to why the Christian holy book, more or less the same one accepted by all Christian denominations, has always included the Old Testament if it's all supposedly rendered old hat by a few letters from Paul (which, by the way, were mostly about making Christianity more appealing to Gentiles; Hebrew Christians were still expected to be circumcised, eat Kosher food and so on). The God who demanded the wholesale genocide of Canaanite tribes is the same God whose son/incarnation gets a PR lift in the gospels, and the same God who promptly gets back to torturing humans in Revelation. But I dunno, maybe times were tough back then?
Just like Paul, of course, both Islam and Judaism have centuries of written analysis by religious scholars which reinterpret (and take the edge off the nasty bits of) the original books. Devout Muslims and Jews, like Christians, are encouraged to study this work and develop their understanding of their religion from it, not just the Koran/Torah/Bible. Of course, most casual observers just take what interests them and relates to their own lives and don't think too much about the rest. A combination of these factors helps explain why Muslims lived mostly in harmony with Jews and (Crusades aside) Christians in the Middle East for many centuries, despite the Koranic verses you list above. |
As someone raised Christian, as you put it, you certainly didn’t pay much attention, or were raised with much wrong doctrine/wrong teaching. The new testament clearly explains that the burden of Judaism isn’t to be put on the gentile church, and only todays cultic seventh Day Adventists teach such rot. I am unaware as to your upbringing, as I don’t know you from a bar of soap, but from what I’ve read on here, your not as learned in the ways of Christianity as you believe yourself to be. Perhaps a re-reading of the gospels may assist you somewhat, id suggest starting at Johns gospel, then perhaps Romans.
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Who can it be now?????????????? |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| The Night wrote: | Christians don’t use this reference to be against the sin of homosexuality, it comes from the new testament teaching in the book of Romans. Romans 1: 26-32
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
The bible says nothing about masturbation at all, not a single verse, so Im not to sure where your headed with that one buddy. Is that why you rebelled against mum and dad, they wouldn’t let you get busy on your own?
As someone raised Christian, as you put it, you certainly didn’t pay much attention, or were raised with much wrong doctrine/wrong teaching. The new testament clearly explains that the burden of Judaism isn’t to be put on the gentile church, and only todays cultic seventh Day Adventists teach such rot. I am unaware as to your upbringing, as I don’t know you from a bar of soap, but from what I’ve read on here, your not as learned in the ways of Christianity as you believe yourself to be. Perhaps a re-reading of the gospels may assist you somewhat, id suggest starting at Johns gospel, then perhaps Romans. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| David wrote: | | Oh, this is a fun game: let's compare the worst verses in the Koran with the nicest ones in the Bible! |
LOL. It's amazing the childish lengths people will go to in a bid to demonstrate they're a peculiarly special brand of H. sapiens. Like a bunch of bloody 12-year-olds on YouTube!
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| pietillidie wrote: | | David wrote: | | Oh, this is a fun game: let's compare the worst verses in the Koran with the nicest ones in the Bible! |
LOL. It's amazing the childish lengths people will go to in a bid to demonstrate they're a peculiarly special brand of H. sapiens. Like a bunch of bloody 12-year-olds on YouTube! |
You have to be 13 to use YouTube  |
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Piethagoras' Theorem 
the hypotenuse, is always a cakewalk
Joined: 29 May 2006
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| The Night wrote: | | FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: | | To the Night and 1061, all you're doing is selecting quotes to suit your agenda, it's an easy game to play, we could go back and forth all day with this. It's these inconsistencies that lead to people turning away from religion. That's why I did. Both books are littered with evil, cruelty and senseless violence, you can't deny that. Mass murder and brutality, all in the name of both religions. You can't get stuck into one and discount another. |
Frankie, you did the exact same thing to make your case, you selected a verse from the bible to make your point. I selected several verses to show context. I think Lairds signature would apply to you here my friend. |
I think you're missing the point. How do you think a nutcase, fundamentalist christian would interpret the quote I provided? How are they any less dangerous than "todays thinking muslim" as you described them. I pretty much live by Lairds sig, don't know what you're getting at there, it's a great quote, just like mine.
I'm done here.
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Formally frankiboy and FrankieGoesToCollingwood. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| FrankieGoesToCollingwood wrote: |
I think you're missing the point. How do you think a nutcase, fundamentalist christian would interpret the quote I provided? How are they any less dangerous than "todays thinking muslim" as you described them. I pretty much live by Lairds sig, don't know what you're getting at there, it's a great quote, just like mine.
I'm done here. |
I think you're missing the point.
The difference is a Fundamentalist Christian would be condemned by 99% of the leaders of the Christian Faith. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| The Night wrote: | | As someone raised Christian, as you put it, you certainly didn’t pay much attention, or were raised with much wrong doctrine/wrong teaching. The new testament clearly explains that the burden of Judaism isn’t to be put on the gentile church, and only todays cultic seventh Day Adventists teach such rot. |
Cool! Nothing like a fundamentalist doctrinal debate.
The "burden of Judaism". Is that like the "white man's burden" of imperial days gone by?
The New Testament does not "clearly explain" that at all. In spots it tries to justify an otherwise contradictory mash of old and new ideas as it deals with cult life under Roman oppression, inventing some obscure nonsense about Jewish law being done away with—but not really!
It's basically trying to usurp the authority of the Classical Hebrew Bible all the while blending it with new narratives about the Jesus figure and distancing itself politically from Jews. The result is the contradictory mess you'd expect that gets less Jewish and more pagan as it goes.
And get your weirdo cult doctrines right! The Seventh-day Adventists teach two things that every fundamentalist worth his literalist salt ought to take seriously. First, the pagan shift to worshiping on Sundays is not clearly mandated anywhere even if there are few indirect hints that certain groups had started doing that (yet again, to distance themselves from Jews and appease pagans).
Second, the Seventh-day Adventists—god bless 'em—also keep well away from that ghoulish, creepy Hellenistic corruption of heaven, hell, angels and spirits floating around after death which started creeping into some sects during the intertestamental period. Give the me the Classical Hebrew and Comparative Gospels on that any day!
Surely you can see most of the Second Testament consists of confused bits of fourth-rate mystical drivel mixed with boring-as-hell provincial cult politics, ruining an otherwise interesting and well-crafted set of narratives in the Comparative Gospels! (Excluding the Book of Revelation, of course, which is not only entertaining, but quite useful if you're interested in the sociology of apocalyptic cults!).
[Flees building; awaits explosion!]
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | | pietillidie wrote: | | David wrote: | | Oh, this is a fun game: let's compare the worst verses in the Koran with the nicest ones in the Bible! |
LOL. It's amazing the childish lengths people will go to in a bid to demonstrate they're a peculiarly special brand of H. sapiens. Like a bunch of bloody 12-year-olds on YouTube! |
You have to be 13 to use YouTube |
Haha, I'd best get that right! Truth be told most of them in those discussions are adults!
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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The Night
Joined: 14 Jun 2006
Location: Lal Lal
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| pietillidie wrote: | | The Night wrote: | | As someone raised Christian, as you put it, you certainly didn’t pay much attention, or were raised with much wrong doctrine/wrong teaching. The new testament clearly explains that the burden of Judaism isn’t to be put on the gentile church, and only todays cultic seventh Day Adventists teach such rot. |
Cool! Nothing like a fundamentalist doctrinal debate.
The "burden of Judaism". Is that like the "white man's burden" of imperial days gone by?
The New Testament does not "clearly explain" that at all. In spots it tries to justify an otherwise contradictory mash of old and new ideas as it deals with cult life under Roman oppression, inventing some obscure nonsense about Jewish law being done away with—but not really!
It's basically trying to usurp the authority of the Classical Hebrew Bible all the while blending it with new narratives about the Jesus figure and distancing itself politically from Jews. The result is the contradictory mess you'd expect that gets less Jewish and more pagan as it goes. |
You obviously missed even a cursory reading of Acts chapter 15, which pretty much is aimed at those who would try to force the gentile believers to remain under the law.
| pietillidie wrote: | | And get your weirdo cult doctrines right! The Seventh-day Adventists teach two things that every fundamentalist worth his literalist salt ought to take seriously. First, the pagan shift to worshiping on Sundays is not clearly mandated anywhere even if there are few indirect hints that certain groups had started doing that (yet again, to distance themselves from Jews and appease pagans). |
Christians are under no burden to keep any day holy, but to do whatever they do unto the Lord. Colossians 2:16-17
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath [days]: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body [is] of Christ. and Romans 14:5-8 also seem to disagree with you, One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
| pietillidie wrote: | Second, the Seventh-day Adventists—god bless 'em—also keep well away from that ghoulish, creepy Hellenistic corruption of heaven, hell, angels and spirits floating around after death which started creeping into some sects during the intertestamental period. Give the me the Classical Hebrew and Comparative Gospels on that any day!
Surely you can see most of the Second Testament consists of confused bits of fourth-rate mystical drivel mixed with boring-as-hell provincial cult politics, ruining an otherwise interesting and well-crafted set of narratives in the Comparative Gospels! (Excluding the Book of Revelation, of course, which is not only entertaining, but quite useful if you're interested in the sociology of apocalyptic cults!).
[Flees building; awaits explosion!] |
Jesus Christ himself spoke on a literal heaven, literal hell and what happens to man when he dies, I think I’ll stick with Jesus Christ and the Apostle Paul, rather than the concussed musings of Ellen G White.
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Who can it be now?????????????? |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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^Well, aren't you picky about your head-injured schizotypal personalities; Paul's in, but Ellen White's out!
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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