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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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And the main cause of hate is envy
That's just how it works
Write of a whole country of people for a stereotype, don't be an Aussie in Bali
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I don't hate, envy or think stereotypically about Americans at all. I'm sure there are many Americans who dislike patriotism as much as I do. There are just some aspects of American culture that I find grating, that's all.
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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There are some aspects of American culture that I don't find grating. Why anyone would envy them I can't imagine.
PS: I have no quarrel with patriotism, except when it leads to stupidities of the "my country right or wrong" variety and they lead to tragic bloodshed. Provided that one keeps a sense of proportion and keeps one's loyalty to one's country secondary to one's loyalty to nature and humanity, patriotism is a very good thing indeed.
Note that half-witted flag-waving of the crass American sort is not patriotism, and no genuine Aussie patriot would stoop to it.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives!
Last edited by Tannin on Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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America can be among the best of countries, and among the worst, and it has far stronger "regional" cultures than Australia. Your average New Yorker is as different from your average Californian as they both are from your average Alabaman. But thank God it exists.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| think positive wrote: | And the main cause of hate is envy
That's just how it works |
Because...?
I haven't researched it either, although "the envious" does strike me as a folk category, much like "the lazy" and other such terms which infest really crappy political discussions about human behaviour [ducks for cover  ].
Here's a guess of my own just to show how open to alternative constructions these things are: The main cause of hate is likely to be strongly related to ego injury (humiliation; worthlessness; agency frustration), through such things as overt power abuse (e.g., physical violence), soft power abuse (e.g., bullying; sidelining; discrimination), indirect power abuse (e.g., a lack of access to opportunity; unfair legislation), or projected blame (paranoia; misplaced anger; bad luck looking for answers).
"Envy", as popularly understood, might be a weak form of narcissism combined with some anger. We know clinical narcissism is just a front for a decimated ego, so clinical narcissists are too injured to be genuinely "envious". The most ego-injured through abuse of power would fall into the same category. That would leave "envy" to come from those who are somewhat disempowered but have enough ego to entertain their desire for more, believing that desire to be justified. The state of frustration arising from that might then be called "envy".
I just made that up that from a few tidbits I know, although the anger-humiliation nexus is well-supported, so I genuinely would start any serious research on the topic there.
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| David wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | No it's their culture and they should be encouraged to practice this culture where ever in the world they may live! |
Stop conflating. Do you hear stories like this coming from most of the world's other 48 Muslim-majority countries?
Really sick and tired of these constant prejudicial remarks. If you can't tell the difference between mainstream Islam and ISIS wingnuts, either get educated or leave the commentary to those who are willing to do some basic research. |
Actually YES.
You provide a list of MUSLIM countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"!
Get over yourself.
Last edited by 1061 on Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Tannin wrote: | There are some aspects of American culture that I don't find grating. Why anyone would envy them I can't imagine.
PS: I have no quarrel with patriotism, except when it leads to stupidities of the "my country right or wrong" variety and they lead to tragic bloodshed. Provided that one keeps a sense of proportion and keeps one's loyalty to one's country secondary to one's loyalty to nature and humanity, patriotism is a very good thing indeed.
Note that half-witted flag-waving of the crass American sort is not patriotism, and no genuine Aussie patriot would stoop to it. |
When patriotism means finding your own identity in the shared history and meanings of your country, and taking quiet satisfaction from its achievements, it is one of the great comforts of life. When it means an inability to self-reflect, or to find compromise with those who have a different shared history and meaning, it's a curse. It took us a long time to understand that, amd no doubt we'll forget it again somewhere in the future.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| 1061 wrote: |
You provide a list of MUSLIM countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"! |
Fine. Now YOU provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"!
Admit it. You can't.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
Can you give me a list of Christian countries? 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | | 1061 wrote: |
You provide a list of MUSLIM countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"! |
Fine. Now YOU provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"!
Admit it. You can't. |
Australia
-well until the Muslims get their way
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Can you give me a list of Christian countries? |
Fortunately Christianity gave up its theocratic ambitions progressively through the 17th and 18th centuries, partly because rising merchant classes weren't prone to being bossed about by priests, and partly because of the Reformation's insistence that God was personal, not institutional. Perhaps it helps that the founder was no politician, and had little to say about government. The separation has made Christianity a fairly benign force for hundreds of years, wherever it's been effected.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | 1061 wrote: |
You provide a list of MUSLIM countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"! |
Fine. Now YOU provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"!
Admit it. You can't. |
Australia |
Oh don't be absurd. I said CHRISTIAN countries.
(Austrialia is secular democracy. There are Christians here, but the country itself is a secular democracy and Christians are a minority. Most Australians either have no religion or attach very little importance to it. Barely more than one tenth of Australians even go to church regularly, and that number is still dropping every year as old fogies die and are replaced by young people (who are overwhelmingly non-religious). Not only is Australia not Christian now, it is getting less and less Xhristian with each passing year.
Try again.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Tannin wrote: | | 1061 wrote: |
You provide a list of MUSLIM countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"! |
Fine. Now YOU provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"!
Admit it. You can't. |
Good try at your usual tactic of deflection Tannin but David asked a question and I answered it with a Yes.
Then I asked him to back up his claim and since you have jumped in as is your way can you answer my question without the usual half a page post?
Just names sweety, names, names, names. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | 1061 wrote: |
You provide a list of MUSLIM countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of MUSLIM countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"! |
Fine. Now YOU provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where being Gay is OK!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where women have equal rights!
You Provide a list of CHRISTIAN countries where what WE would consider barbaric acts are NOT included in their criminal "justice"!
Admit it. You can't. |
Australia |
Oh don't be absurd. I said CHRISTIAN countries.
(Austrialia is secular democracy. There are Christians here, but the country itself is a secular democracy and Christians are a minority. Most Australians either have no religion or attach very little importance to it. Barely more than one tenth of Australians even go to church regularly, and that number is still dropping every year as old fogies die and are replaced by young people (who are overwhelmingly non-religious). Not only is Australia not Christian now, it is getting less and less Xhristian with each passing year.
Try again. |
So you'll be giving up your CHrist-mas holidays and forgoing Easter?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| Mugwump wrote: | Fortunately Christianity gave up its theocratic ambitions progressively through the 17th and 18th centuries, partly because rising merchant classes weren't prone to being bossed about by priests, and partly because of the Reformation's insistence that God was personal, not institutional, but mostly because
(a) for hundreds of years political leaders like (e.g.) Queen Elizabeth, Philip the Fair, James I and Frederick II had had to fight for their very lives against the Church (which wanted to depose them and kill them or simply replace them with obedient papal lackeys) and had, over those hundreds of years, slowly, slowly overcome the vast power of the various churches and their limitless ambition to rule everything; and
(b) because most people simply stopped regarding religion as the most important thing in their lives; little by little, as religion was tamed by the various nations, it became a less central part of everyday life and thought (or, as it became a less central part of everyday life and thought, it was gradually tamed by the various nations - you decide which way riound is correct).
The Christian religion wasn't replaced by some other belief all in one go, it was gradually overcome and made less important by a range of other interests in everday life, including the enjoyment of the material goods which were at this time becoming more widely available and affordable, and a great interest in science and knowledge and general education, which reached its peak around the late 19th and early 20th Centuries. . Perhaps it helps that the founder was no politician, and had little to say about government. The separation has made Christianity a fairly benign force for hundreds of years, wherever it's been effected. |
Cheers mate. Fixed ^ that one for you.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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