ISIS
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| Jezza wrote: |
I have a feeling that the five-year plan I've displayed above your post is the bare minimum they want to achieve even if that outcome is fantasy.
They have so many enemies it's not funny so I doubt they'll be able to seize all of Iraq and Syria let alone the rest of the Middle East and areas of Africa and Europe! |
Mate, their overall goals are clear. Their capacity to achieve those right at the moment is miniscule and even their 5 year goal looks way overly ambitious, but underestimate fanatics and zealots at your peril.
Their goals may be unlikely but these nutjobs are prepared to sacrifice anyone and anything to achieve them. Sort of makes them difficult to negotiate with. 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
 |
Jezza 
2023 PREMIERS!
Joined: 06 Sep 2010
Location: Ponsford End
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Well the actual name of IS, ISIL or ISIS might say a lot about what their overall goals are.
IS (Islamic State) - It's a much more general name and can be directed to the whole world.
ISIL (Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant) - It limits itself to the region of Iraq and the Levant which consists of nations like Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Israel, Palestine, Turkey and Cyprus. This is what the 'five-year plan' seems to be inferring.
ISIS (Islamic State of Iraq and Syria) - It very much limits itself to Iraq and Syria and the name suggests it doesn't branch out any further. The fact that they haven't even seized the whole region of these two nations suggests they're a long way away from getting anywhere near their intended goals as you suggest.
I think the naming of this group might give us a clearer indication of the goals they want to achieve. The fact that they keep changing name is hinting at potentially more unrealistic and bigger goals.
_________________
| 1902 | 1903 | 1910 | 1917 | 1919 | 1927 | 1928 | 1929 | 1930 | 1935 | 1936 | 1953 | 1958 | 1990 | 2010 | 2023 | |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
LOL - eat your heart out Genghis Khan!
That map, trimmed of the entire planet and devoid of local enemies, is far more gold than you realize, Jezza. Bwahahahahahaha!
It's not simply "unrealistic", Jezza; it's Monty Python comedy gold.
I mean, they've only got the entire developed world, China, India, the Americas, the rest of Africa and Asia (including most of Islamic Asia who despise them), and the people in their region who despise with them and will fight them to the death to maintain their own self-determination.
I guess Tony Abbott forgot to mention those tiny other bits of the world map 
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Hang on - is this ISIS' secret plan to take over the US?
Oh, no, sorry; that's just a map of the gangs which have already taken over parts of entire US cities, making life hell for people, shooting them and even sometimes posting the videos on YouTube!
No money to deal with that problem, I guess!
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Stui, the point of posting these maps is that it shows how peripheral Australia is to even their most ambitious aims. As Jezza says, they have their work cut out for them just holding ground in the parts of Syria and Iraq that they control. No-one has explained to me why they'd want to open up a second front in Western Sydney or Dandenong.
If I were a diehard Sunni Islamist who was impressed by IS right now, I'd be on the first plane to Mosul and be packing enough pairs of underwear to last me for a few years. Not plotting terrorist attacks down in Melbourne. Our decision to intervene in Iraq again has probably made us a bit more of a target for revenge attacks, but I'm still failing to see the supposed "existential threat" IS poses to Australia.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^The irony here is that to my knowledge you and I both agree with intervention to reduce harm, including in cases of constraining terrorism and protecting the innocent.
Yet no one can argue the case seriously and factually. No one. It is negligent to sanction actions without knowing what the hell you're sanctioning. Grossly negligent. Are you going to cause more violence as with Iraq? Is it just war and oil industry psychopathy?
Explain the bloody case, someone, and support it with reference to actual earthly entities and verifiable facts.
Otherwise I have a deal for you:
Hot new deal for true patriots!
President Obama and Prime Minister Abbott command you to fund my next tech venture, urgently. My next tech venture will save you from imminent peril! There is no evidence for any of my claims, but there is no time to waste! Don't play with fire! He who hesitates is lost! PM with funds now!
Thank you, Madame Speaker.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Is Jonathon Holmes right that Bernard Keane is the only journalist with reach who has questioned this latest bout of Abbott idiocy and criminal conservative deception?
| Jonathon Holmes in The Aged wrote: | Islamic State is not an existential threat to us
Date
September 24, 2014 - 12:00AM
5 reading nowBe the first to comment Read later
Jonathan Holmes
Professor Suzanne Cory delivered the third Boyer Lecture last Sunday � the same day, as it happened, that hundreds of thousands around the world marched and demonstrated for quicker action on climate change.
"If we do not change our ways," warned Professor Cory, "and greenhouse gas emissions keep growing as they are now, global average temperatures are predicted to rise by 4.5 degrees by the year 2100. That would mean a hotter world than at any time in the last few million years."
It's the kind of talk that is privately dismissed by many prominent members of the coalition government, and publicly derided by most of their supporters in the media, as "global warming alarmism".
Tony Abbott did not attend Tuesday's United Nations climate change summit in New York. But he will, of course, be in New York on Wednesday to help decide what to do about the Islamic State of the Levant.
Six hundred men and women of the Australian Defence Force are already in the United Arab Emirates, together with a squadron of FA-18 Hornets poised to strike. After all ISIL, as the federal Attorney-General told the ABC last week, "represents or seeks to be an existential threat to us".
An existential threat! When I left the United Kingdom in 1982, hundreds of missiles armed with nuclear warheads, some a thousand times more powerful than the Hiroshima bomb, were trained by the Soviet Union on those small islands. As NevilShute's On The Beach not unrealistically portrayed it, a full-scale nuclear exchange would have threatened human existence even in far-off Australia. That was an existential threat.
ISIL is brutal, and merciless. It undoubtedly threatens the lives and well-being of some hundreds of thousands � perhaps millions � of people in northern Iraq and eastern Syria. It has made clear that it wants its followers to kill Australians too. But, whatever it "seeks to be", it is not and never will be an existential threat to Australia.
Yet so far as I know, only Crikey's Bernard Keane has called George Brandis out on his alarmism.
ISIL knows the power of terror, however. As the Prime Minister puts it, "It is a serious situation when all you need to do to carry out a terrorist attack is to have a knife, an iPhone and a victim".
But what last week showed us was that, with a bit of help from your enemies, you can terrify a supposedly confident and prosperous nation of twenty-three million people by making one call on an old-fashioned telephone.
It was one call, after all, that precipitated last week's raids. Eight hundred policemen, witnessed by dozens of journalists and filmed by their own media unit's cameras, raided two dozen addresses. After what we were breathlessly told was "the biggest counter-terrorism operation in Australian history", one young man was charged with a terrorism offence.
As the government made sure we knew in double quick time, he had been urged by an ISIL activist in Syria to cut off the head of an innocent Australian. One Australian. There's an existential threat for you.
"Terrorists want to scare us out of being ourselves and our best response is to insouciantly be fully Australian," said Tony Abbott.
And so, insouciantly, our parliament will today debate whether to impose still more drastic anti-terror laws, in addition to those enacted by the Howard government � laws that have already limited the rights of the citizen that have been in place since Magna Carta.
In December 2012, the government made public a declassified version of a report by the National Security Legislation Monitor, Bret Walker SC. Walker advised the abolition of Preventative Detention Orders. PDOs allow the security agencies secretly to detain people for days without charge. "There is no demonstrated necessity for these extraordinary powers," Walker wrote, "particularly in light of the ability to arrest, charge and prosecute people suspected of involvement in terrorism." They had never been used.
Until last week, that is. Apparently at least three people were detained under PDOs last Thursday and then released. We aren't permitted to know whether some are still being held under such orders, or why.
Such powers are rarely granted to security agencies by democracies, even in wartime. The only parallels Bret Walker cites are the detention of ethnic Japanese by the United States during World War 2, and the detention of IRA suspects during the Northern Ireland "troubles". Those, said Walker, "are now recognized by both governments as policy failures". And Tony Abbott tells us that "the last thing any of us would want to do is to damage our freedoms in order to preserve our freedoms."
Yet Bret Walker's advice will be ignored. Among numerous other draconian measures, the government proposes to renew legislation authorising Preventative Detention Orders for another ten years.
Well, Bret Walker was a Gillard government appointee, no doubt insufficiently alarmed by the terrorist threat. "The community expects government�to keep them safe, this government will not let them down", says Tony Abbott.
Funding for ASIO and ASIS up; the Department of Climate change abolished, and funding for the CSIRO's scientists cut. More and more laws to stop terrorists; fewer and fewer measures to limit greenhouse gas emissions. And of course, no carbon price.
The threat of terrorism by followers of ISIL, and the threat posed by climate change, are both real. But only one of them is potentially existential. If we expect government to keep not just us, but our children and grandchildren safe, this one will let us down. Count on it.
Jonathan Holmes is a Fairfax columnist and a former presenter of the ABC's Media Watch program.
|
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/islamic-state-is-not-an-existential-threat-to-us-20140923-10kolr.html
Of course we all fear terrorism, myself probably even more so at the moment traveling around London with the country's terrorism threat officially classed as "extreme" or "severe" (or whatever it was). So understand this: I am not criticising spending money on security because I certainly do believe terrorism is a genuine threat, and a major one.
However, the data shows it is still a mile in importance below the wealth gap (the most dangerous social menace by a mile) and the threat Two-Tier Tony and friends pose to the social structure. And a mile below youth unemployment and the lagging local reaction to the changes in the global economy and employment. And a mile below the risk profile of global warming. And a mile below many diseases and other ills.
Yet, it is still very important, no doubt.
But to grant dishonest, corrupt, unaccountable organisations more power to spend tax payer money on boosting weapon and oil company share prices is an immoral disgrace. Especially after they just committed the most grotesque treason in the history of the nation by fraudulently promoting and then profiteering from the Iraq War.
All those tough talkers who crap on endlessly about the evils of criminals in other threads, and yet support these things without demanding information and accountability of the type we get in the law courts people complain about daily, ought to have the courage to attend the funeral of the next brown child whose leg gets blown off as "collateral damage", telling her parents not to worry because it was in your nation's interest.
Or, if you really do think brown lives are worth less than the lives of those you identify with, perhaps you could visit the child of the next white Aussie soldier who blows his own head off due to the PTSD he developed trying to boost someone else's share price in the name of defending you from a statistically minor threat exaggerated by the media and a lack of effort to stay reasonable and proportional.
Go on, folks, put your public claims to having superior morality to ISIS where your mouth is and take adult responsibility for the deaths, injuries and costs you will have sanctioned if, yet again, you blindly support something that turns into an horrific disaster.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | Stui, the point of posting these maps is that it shows how peripheral Australia is to even their most ambitious aims. As Jezza says, they have their work cut out for them just holding ground in the parts of Syria and Iraq that they control. No-one has explained to me why they'd want to open up a second front in Western Sydney or Dandenong.
If I were a diehard Sunni Islamist who was impressed by IS right now, I'd be on the first plane to Mosul and be packing enough pairs of underwear to last me for a few years. Not plotting terrorist attacks down in Melbourne. Our decision to intervene in Iraq again has probably made us a bit more of a target for revenge attacks, but I'm still failing to see the supposed "existential threat" IS poses to Australia. |
2 points.
1. You're not a diehard Sunni islamist and have little in the way of thought processes to relate to them, so what you (or I) would do is largely irrelevant. It's what they might do.
2. Why do they need to pose a direct current threat for Australia to act? I understand the US is intervening at the request of the Iraqi government and asked us to assist. No one is swaggering in uninvited and only an imbecile would think that the potential consequences hadn't been considered first.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | No one is swaggering in uninvited and only an imbecile would think that the potential consequences hadn't been considered first. |
God almighty, did you learn nothing from the failed Iraq War at all? Greeted open-armed in the streets? Cost no more than 300B dollars? Over in five minutes?
Only an utter imbecile believes the same unproven claims from the same motivated, unaccountable liars twice without absolute skepticism. You wouldn't do it in your private life, so why fall for it in public life? Climate scientists actually publish their work for open critique and analysis and you still don't believe them!
You're the first person I'd ask for help buying a second-hand car, yet here you are cheering on the shonkiest of dealers as if you've change identities just for this topic.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm
Last edited by pietillidie on Wed Sep 24, 2014 8:43 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
Culprit 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Port Melbourne
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| The fear campaign will enter overdrive after today's shooting in Endeavour Hills. |
|
|
|
|
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| What is your real name? |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | .....
........ No one is swaggering in uninvited and only an imbecile would think that the potential consequences hadn't been considered first. |
As PTID noted above: the words "Mission Accomplished" should send a shudder through all of us.
I think you're far too trusting here Stui.
I remember at the time of the WMD etc & Little Johnny with Dubbya & Blair that Albert Langer at the time when asked said of course we should remove Saddam it's just that they've got someone as incompetent as Dubbya leading the charge that poses the biggest problem - or words to that effect (this was said early on the piece too)
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Culprit wrote: | | The fear campaign will enter overdrive after today's shooting in Endeavour Hills. |
The fear campaign started with the police, the police media & overkill with 800 cops, 1 arrest etc.
BTW, how is the crook budget going?
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
|
sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Good luck IS, ISIS, ISIL or whoever you are. Just what exactly have you taken over so far anyway?
The part of Syria that no one wants & that's only due to that poor country being torn asunder and a slab of Iraq that sadly is the same. Please name besides poor war ravaged Mosul one large city you have conquered and then managed to hold?
So Mosul is it.
Anyway, according to that previously posted map that was first put out on Twitter, you're gonna have to take on Shiite Iran pretty soon.
Good luck - not even the U.S backed Sadam Hussein and his millions of Iraqi troops could get over the Iranians in a ten year slog fest and that was with the force of a unified and supported nation state.
So the thousand year enemy of Sunni extremism, that being Shiite Iran with perhaps 20 million troops will lose to ISIL, but after that miracle, ISIL move on Turkey? or maybe Dubai? or the Saudis?
Seriously folks....... |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| watt price tully wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | .....
........ No one is swaggering in uninvited and only an imbecile would think that the potential consequences hadn't been considered first. |
As PTID noted above: the words "Mission Accomplished" should send a shudder through all of us.
I think you're far too trusting here Stui.
I remember at the time of the WMD etc & Little Johnny with Dubbya & Blair that Albert Langer at the time when asked said of course we should remove Saddam it's just that they've got someone as incompetent as Dubbya leading the charge that poses the biggest problem - or words to that effect (this was said early on the piece too) |
Maybe I'm too trusting or maybe I think that there's people who're letting their opinion of Abbott colour their judgement here and bucking up just because it's him.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
