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Should bicycle helmets be mandatory for adults?

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Should bicycle helmets be mandatory for adults?
Yes
57%
 57%  [ 8 ]
No
42%
 42%  [ 6 ]
Other (basically yes or no with a BUT..... please elaborate
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 14

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:18 pm
Post subject: Should bicycle helmets be mandatory for adults?Reply with quote

Just a question. I read somewhere recently how some government committee into red tape got a lot of comment on this topic. I also saw the piece on how some woman in the inner suburbs got pinned on ride to work day on her pushie because the helmet strap wasn't done up properly.

I think they should be compulsory for children (defined as under 18 ) but adults can choose whether to wear one or not and it's not a Police issue. If you're old enough to vote, drink, smoke you should be allowed to make your own decision on whether you need a helmet on a cycle.

If the laws were changed I'd expect most of the people who ride the multi gear racing machines in their spandex safari suit would keep wearing helmets but those who treadle their no gears POS with the basket on the handlebars would choose not to. The Bike hire of those blue things in the CBD might get a few more customers.

Thoughts? I think mandating helmets for all is a classic case of over governing and the Police should be freed up of having to worry about crap like this. If someone gets injured in an incident that would have been prevented by a helmet, is that the fault of the government or the person who made the choice to not wear one?

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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:55 pm
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i voted yes

but if no wins, just like bald tyres, no helmet should mean no insurance cover, ie, fine take the chance, but wear the possible consequence

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David Libra

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Joined: 27 Jul 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:03 pm
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You could argue that it's somewhat similar to mandatory seatbelts, except for the fact that you can't injure anyone else by not wearing a helmet.

I don't know. It's not against the law to endanger our own safety in many other ways. My thought would be that cyclists should be strongly advised to wear helmets, but that they shouldn't be fined or otherwise punished for not doing so.

I don't necessarily oppose the idea of it still being mandatory for minors, but how would you police such a thing? It's not like seatbelts; an adult may well not be with them at the time. Not sure police should be going around fining children.

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stui magpie Gemini

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Joined: 03 May 2005
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:36 pm
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David wrote:

I don't necessarily oppose the idea of it still being mandatory for minors, but how would you police such a thing? It's not like seatbelts; an adult may well not be with them at the time. Not sure police should be going around fining children.


They will fine parents who're with kids and pick kids up or give them warnings. They do Police it, but not heavily. Main focus is Adults.

I get the similarity with seatbelts but cars go a lot faster and are a different dynamic. I can live with mandatory seatbelts, I just think if you're riding your vintage Malvern Star down to the cafe at barely 15kmh you should be able to do it without a helmet.

If you end up in an ED you're going to get treated regardless of fault, and who has insurance to ride a bike? You're covered by the TAC if hit by a car whether cyclist or pedestrian. The nimrods who jaywalk wearing headphones are Darwin award candidates, riding a bike without a helmet seems to work in pretty much every other country.

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Tannin Capricorn

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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 7:46 pm
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David wrote:
You could argue that it's somewhat similar to mandatory seatbelts, except for the fact that you can't injure anyone else by not wearing a helmet.


No, in fact it isn't similar. The primary argument in favour of compulsory seat belt laws is economic: it saves the state a heap of money in medical expenses.

There is no valid economic argument in favour of compulsory helmets. Yes, they save a (relatively small) amount of the health budget via reduced head injury care costs, but they cost the healthcare budget a much larger amount because of the (large) number of people who don't cycle because it's too much bother, discomfort, or mess. (Do you know what helmets do to your hair? No? Then I surmise that you are male.) Now throw in the (significant) number of people who like to cycle because of the delightful sense of freedom it gives: without the feeling of the wind in your hair it's just not the same. Count them out too. Obesity and heart disease are far, far worse problems than cycling head injuries, and people who cycle are much less prone to suffer from them. The overall saving to the health budget through not having compulsory helmets is hard to quantify, but think at least double.

Now throw in the very significant saving to the transport budget: every couple of cyclists is a car off the road. Do you know how much a freeway costs? We are talking billions here. Or, it's people not using our overstrained loss-making public transport networks - and that too is a saving to the taxpayer.

The compulsory helmet laws are, not to put too fine a point on it, utterly, unforgivably stupid. You bring in an unpopular law to restrict people's rights with the aim of increasing the net death rate, increasing urban transport problems, and costing the taxpayer a lot of money. It does not get any stupider than that.

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Member 7167 Leo

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:06 pm
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My son is a mad keen cyclist. He rides to work most days he works in the city and many of his frends ride in a group on weekends. He has completed events such as the Amy Gillett fondo. Earlier this year he took a corner a little too quick on his way home and rolled the rear tyre off the rim. He smashed out one tooth and pushed another three three into the gum but everything is ok now after enduring considerable pain and expending some $9000.

If he wasn't wearing his hemet he may have been killed or he may have received brain damage. I think helmets should be compulsory the same way as seat belts are. You do not see competators in the Tour De France or any other professional races riding without helmet for a good reason.

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stui magpie Gemini

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:11 pm
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^

Making them non mandatory doesn't mean they're outlawed, people can still wear them if they choose to.

It's not mandatory to wear a helmet on a motorcycle in the USA, but plenty still do.

Also, professional cyclists get up serious speed. To compare them to the average punter on a no gear cycle isn't fair.

Question. Would your son have been wearing a helmet if he didn't have to?

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Wokko Pisces

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 8:39 pm
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Once helmets became mandatory, Women pretty much stopped cycling overnight. I think this issue is a good place to draw the line in the sand on nanny state BS, let people do what they decide is right for them.
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Tannin Capricorn

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Joined: 06 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:23 pm
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Member 7167 wrote:
If he wasn't wearing his hemet he may have been killed or he may have received brain damage.


Yadda yadda yadda. For every example such as this, there are two or three or seventeen examples of people whose lives would have been saved by the healthy exercise they aren't getting because they don't ride and get exercise. Simple fact: helmet laws kill a lot more people than they save.

Every extra person riding benefits. Only a very small number of the people riding today benefit in any way from wearing a helmet. (The very small number who (a) crash badly, and (b) happen to be saved by the helmet.) What proportion of all cyclists have a bad crash? 10%? Probably a lot less than that - for example, I can't remember anyone of the dozens, possibly hundreds, of people I used to know when I was cycling regularly having a bad crash. In how many of those accidents amongst the (less than) 10% does a helmet actually make a difference? 10%? Even if you say 20% (which sounds most unlikely - remember that all the really bad ones kill you helmet or no helmet 'coz you just went under a Toyota at 70k), that's still a grand total of just 2%. (20% of 10% = 2%; in reality much less than that 'coz we are bending over backwards to be generous with the numbers here.)

So helmets help (less than) 2%, where the health benefits of riding instead of driving apply to 100% of the people involved.

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Morrigu Capricorn



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:25 pm
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stui magpie wrote:
Also, professional cyclists get up serious speed. To compare them to the average punter on a no gear cycle isn't fair.


True but many ( I would say most) accidents involving cyclists are not related to the speed they are travelling at - they are hit by vehicles, they swerve to avoid a vehicle or someone opening a car door or a child, an animal or just simply can't ride that well and hit the ground - unprotected head vs ground does usually a scrambled brain make! Coup and Contracoup head injuries do not require absolute speed of travel - it's the stopping rather than the going!

I don't ride push bikes but I get the freedom thing - the wind in your face when for example riding the Black Spur with your visor up is tres bien - would I do it without a helmet - hell no - hair care factor zero😝

Should it be compulsory hmmm dunno - for kids absolutely - for adults -maybe - not sure. Either way if it isn't worn correctly it's useless!

After many years in Neurosurgery HDU at RMH - I reckon they should ban baseball bats - you wouldn't believe how many assaults resulting in significant brain damage occur from being whacked over the head with them - never realised we had so many baseball bats in the community 😱😱

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:25 pm
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Tannin wrote:
[quote="Member 7167"]If he wasn't wearing his hemet he may have been killed or he may have received brain damage.[/quote]

Yadda yadda yadda. For every example such as this, there are two or three or seventeen examples of people whose lives would have been saved by the healthy exercise they aren't getting because they don't ride and get exercise. Simple fact: helmet laws kill a lot more people than they save.

[i]Every[/i] extra person riding benefits. Only a very small number of the people riding today benefit in any way from wearing a helmet. (The very small number who (a) crash badly, and (b) happen to be saved by the helmet.) What proportion of all cyclists have a bad crash? 10%? Probably a lot less than that - for example, I can't remember [i]anyone[/i] of the dozens, possibly hundreds, of people I used to know when I was cycling regularly having a bad crash. In how many of those accidents amongst the (less than) 10% does a helmet actually make a difference? 10%? Even if you say 20% (which sounds most unlikely - remember that all the [i]really[/i] bad ones kill you helmet or no helmet 'coz you just went under a Toyota at 70k), that's still a grand total of just 2%. (20% of 10% = 2%; in reality much less than that 'coz we are bending over backwards to be generous with the numbers here.)

So helmets help (less than) 2%, where the health benefits of riding instead of driving apply to [i]100%[/i] of the people involved.
You seem uncertain. That is so small.
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think positive Libra

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:14 pm
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Well wokko last time I checked I was female and I ride a bike! With a Helmet! I've had one crash, a head on, it was a dirt track, I follow road rules so I pulled left, he pulled right, smash! Same as a car crash, add the speed of both bikes. I saw it coming and braced, he took the worst of it! No major damage!

I've stacked motor bikes, had a beauty on an XR80, my shiny new toy when I was 17. I hit the back whoopee doos and soon discovered the suspension on my new bike was very different to my clapped out xr75. I let the bike go in the end, it summersaulted a couple of times, and I bruised about 75% of my body! Dented my Helmet, I was doing maybe 20-30kph, you can get to that on a no gear push bike with the wind behind you easy. I've also gone over a jump without my horse, knocked out cold for a few minutes, luckily in a cross country riding hat.

If your worried about Helmet hair, stick a scarf under the Helmet.

And Stui, most of the USA have a helmet law (the cops are probably to scared to fine anyone, bikies have bigger guns!)

http://motorbikewriter.com/helmet-or-no-helmet/

Ask Gary bussey what he thinks about the helmet law! Actually, even with nearly dieing I think he said he'd still ride without one! Stupid!

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watt price tully Scorpio



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:21 pm
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Compulsory - of course they should.

The police need to police cars more, some fines for poor car driving - 1 metre rule, door opening causing accidents should be harshly & severely penalised.

Taxi drivers should be fined for just being taxi drivers.

Mothers in 4 large wheel drives driving to & fro school pick up & drop off (mostly private schools) should also be harshly penalised

The above two groups are the worst offenders in my view.

Helmet wearing like seat belts is a (dare I say it) no brainer - civil liberties - my (sufficiently ample) arse.

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Morrigu Capricorn



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PostPosted: Mon Oct 26, 2015 11:37 pm
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Tannin wrote:
Member 7167 wrote:
If he wasn't wearing his hemet he may have been killed or he may have received brain damage.


Yadda yadda yadda. For every example such as this, there are two or three or seventeen examples of people whose lives would have been saved by the healthy exercise they aren't getting because they don't ride and get exercise. Simple fact: helmet laws kill a lot more people than they save.


Oh that's helpful and so very empathetic - pfft you are dead or shit sorry your brain don't work anymore - yadda yadda yadda - helmet laws kill more people than they save 😀😀😀😀😁😀😀😀 - yep bicycle riding is the ONLY path to anything resembing physical activity and fitness that will save your life - really? - your teabags are obviously are out of date Razz

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David Libra

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2015 12:44 am
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Wokko wrote:
Once helmets became mandatory, Women pretty much stopped cycling overnight. I think this issue is a good place to draw the line in the sand on nanny state BS, let people do what they decide is right for them.


If the reverse is true, and relaxing the laws will unleash an army of women on bicycles, unhelmeted for vanity's sake, is that necessarily a good thing? Sounds like a good way to get a lot more injured people, if you ask me. Razz

Also, while I think there's merit to Tannin's argument, there are a lot of other ways to get fit (running, swimming, competitive sport). And people who want to get fit will tend to find a way. How many couch potatoes would really be out on a bicycle if they didn't have to wear a helmet?

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