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| Where should Reid mainly play in 2015? |
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| Total Votes : 36 |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | Down Back. He is a CHB AA and His Kicking out of Defence is Amazing and Sets up tons of Attacks |
But it's a mute point clearing the D50 if it just rebounds because you don't have F50 marking options.
Yes, he was AA at CHB but was recruited as a forward and may well have been an AA CHF if persisted with. There are guys who similarly are recruited as forwards who are best suited as backmen (eg Presti) but Reid has shown he can also produce as a forward. Quality key forwards are much harder to find. |
The Reason he has to play Forward because we picked up Duds in White and Lynch since we Traded Dawes as we have no one else.
Gault and Moore will play sometime up Forward at AFL Level |
I would argue that both Lynch and White were recruited as 3rd tall/ruck relief (Leroy Brown's position) whereas Dawes best footy was played when he was the 2nd key forward. Therefore we haven't actually recruited anyone to cover the move of Dawes to the Dees, Reid has actually done it best. |
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BHPIE
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Broken Hill
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| Slow n steady, sure up defence first with a pinch hit fwd later in games when fwds struggle . |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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Three points:
1: As another poster already said, just so long as he plays somewhere!
2: Not counting BR, we have one good key forward (Cloke) and three good key backs (Frost, Brown, Keeffe). Obviously, Reid should mostly play forward unless and until we have some decent marking options to support Cloke. I don't buy Keeffe as a forward, nor as a ruckman. Yes, he might grow into that role, but nothing so far has demonstrated his ability for it. All other possibilities are equally blue-sky chances - White, Karnesis, Moore, Witts, and Gault are untried or unproven. Gault looks to have the best credentials on the board so far, but we will have to wait and see. Meanwhile, Reid is our best bet.
3: I am tired of the constant push to hijack our best small forward prospects as midfielders. FFS, forwards are IMPORTANT; there is nothing wrong with saying "Player X, you have the talent to be a midfielder, but we want you to concentrate on roosting majors for us - we have other midfielders but not too many other players who can bag us a reliable score". Sure, let them have run on the ball from time to time, positively require them to run back hard and defend when the ball is in opposition hands, but let the bloody forwards BE forwards: let them concentrate on that role and learn their craft properly. Most other clubs are smart enough to do this. We ain't. Jamie Elliott is a prime example. We can manage without Elliott in the midfield. We can't manage without Elliott in attack, and we need to develop at least one, preferably two others to help him out.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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partypie
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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| Watching Freo for the last couple of years tells me that a really good defence will get a team into the finals, even a grand final, but it won't win those important games without key forwards in form, so I think Ben should play wherever he is needed at the time. Hopefully Jessie White, Gault, Witts and Grundy and some young players will take advantage of the opportunities ahead of them. |
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Az
Joined: 25 Sep 2013
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| Tannin wrote: | Three points:
1: As another poster already said, just so long as he plays somewhere!
2: Not counting BR, we have one good key forward (Cloke) and three good key backs (Frost, Brown, Keeffe). Obviously, Reid should mostly play forward unless and until we have some decent marking options to support Cloke. I don't buy Keeffe as a forward, nor as a ruckman. Yes, he might grow into that role, but nothing so far has demonstrated his ability for it. All other possibilities are equally blue-sky chances - White, Karnesis, Moore, Witts, and Gault are untried or unproven. Gault looks to have the best credentials on the board so far, but we will have to wait and see. Meanwhile, Reid is our best bet.
3: I am tired of the constant push to hijack our best small forward prospects as midfielders. FFS, forwards are IMPORTANT; there is nothing wrong with saying "Player X, you have the talent to be a midfielder, but we want you to concentrate on roosting majors for us - we have other midfielders but not too many other players who can bag us a reliable score". Sure, let them have run on the ball from time to time, positively require them to run back hard and defend when the ball is in opposition hands, but let the bloody forwards BE forwards: let them concentrate on that role and learn their craft properly. Most other clubs are smart enough to do this. We ain't. Jamie Elliott is a prime example. We can manage without Elliott in the midfield. We can't manage without Elliott in attack, and we need to develop at least one, preferably two others to help him out. |
Excellent post Tannin. Could not agree more on the subject of moving Elliot into the midfield next year. It absolutely baffles me Bucks is willing to take out what could be a 50 goal a year forward in an already struggling forward line. Just crazy. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Az wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | Three points:
1: As another poster already said, just so long as he plays somewhere!
2: Not counting BR, we have one good key forward (Cloke) and three good key backs (Frost, Brown, Keeffe). Obviously, Reid should mostly play forward unless and until we have some decent marking options to support Cloke. I don't buy Keeffe as a forward, nor as a ruckman. Yes, he might grow into that role, but nothing so far has demonstrated his ability for it. All other possibilities are equally blue-sky chances - White, Karnesis, Moore, Witts, and Gault are untried or unproven. Gault looks to have the best credentials on the board so far, but we will have to wait and see. Meanwhile, Reid is our best bet.
3: I am tired of the constant push to hijack our best small forward prospects as midfielders. FFS, forwards are IMPORTANT; there is nothing wrong with saying "Player X, you have the talent to be a midfielder, but we want you to concentrate on roosting majors for us - we have other midfielders but not too many other players who can bag us a reliable score". Sure, let them have run on the ball from time to time, positively require them to run back hard and defend when the ball is in opposition hands, but let the bloody forwards BE forwards: let them concentrate on that role and learn their craft properly. Most other clubs are smart enough to do this. We ain't. Jamie Elliott is a prime example. We can manage without Elliott in the midfield. We can't manage without Elliott in attack, and we need to develop at least one, preferably two others to help him out. |
Excellent post Tannin. Could not agree more on the subject of moving Elliot into the midfield next year. It absolutely baffles me Bucks is willing to take out what could be a 50 goal a year forward in an already struggling forward line. Just crazy. |
I don't know that Bucks actually has a case to answer here. Elliott got a very occasional midfield run in 2014 so I think he's on the same wavelength. I think Tannin was addressing a few posters who've made the proposal to move him into the midfield as the Beams replacement.
But then again, we should always adhere to the "it's Bucks fault" mantra whenever possible  |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| jackcass wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | Down Back. He is a CHB AA and His Kicking out of Defence is Amazing and Sets up tons of Attacks |
But it's a mute point clearing the D50 if it just rebounds because you don't have F50 marking options.
Yes, he was AA at CHB but was recruited as a forward and may well have been an AA CHF if persisted with. There are guys who similarly are recruited as forwards who are best suited as backmen (eg Presti) but Reid has shown he can also produce as a forward. Quality key forwards are much harder to find. |
The Reason he has to play Forward because we picked up Duds in White and Lynch since we Traded Dawes as we have no one else.
Gault and Moore will play sometime up Forward at AFL Level |
I would argue that both Lynch and White were recruited as 3rd tall/ruck relief (Leroy Brown's position) whereas Dawes best footy was played when he was the 2nd key forward. Therefore we haven't actually recruited anyone to cover the move of Dawes to the Dees, Reid has actually done it best. |
Agree the 2nd KPF was Perfect For Dawes. Trying to make him a Ruckman was Stupidity by Bucks 
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I am Da Man |
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Az
Joined: 25 Sep 2013
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| jackcass wrote: | | Az wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | Three points:
1: As another poster already said, just so long as he plays somewhere!
2: Not counting BR, we have one good key forward (Cloke) and three good key backs (Frost, Brown, Keeffe). Obviously, Reid should mostly play forward unless and until we have some decent marking options to support Cloke. I don't buy Keeffe as a forward, nor as a ruckman. Yes, he might grow into that role, but nothing so far has demonstrated his ability for it. All other possibilities are equally blue-sky chances - White, Karnesis, Moore, Witts, and Gault are untried or unproven. Gault looks to have the best credentials on the board so far, but we will have to wait and see. Meanwhile, Reid is our best bet.
3: I am tired of the constant push to hijack our best small forward prospects as midfielders. FFS, forwards are IMPORTANT; there is nothing wrong with saying "Player X, you have the talent to be a midfielder, but we want you to concentrate on roosting majors for us - we have other midfielders but not too many other players who can bag us a reliable score". Sure, let them have run on the ball from time to time, positively require them to run back hard and defend when the ball is in opposition hands, but let the bloody forwards BE forwards: let them concentrate on that role and learn their craft properly. Most other clubs are smart enough to do this. We ain't. Jamie Elliott is a prime example. We can manage without Elliott in the midfield. We can't manage without Elliott in attack, and we need to develop at least one, preferably two others to help him out. |
Excellent post Tannin. Could not agree more on the subject of moving Elliot into the midfield next year. It absolutely baffles me Bucks is willing to take out what could be a 50 goal a year forward in an already struggling forward line. Just crazy. |
I don't know that Bucks actually has a case to answer here. Elliott got a very occasional midfield run in 2014 so I think he's on the same wavelength. I think Tannin was addressing a few posters who've made the proposal to move him into the midfield as the Beams replacement.
But then again, we should always adhere to the "it's Bucks fault" mantra whenever possible |
I thought I heard him in the post season review saying Elliot being used more in the midfield was a goal for next year? I'm certainly not in the "it's Bucks' fault" brigade and support him hugely, but it doesn't take a footy brain to realize that's a horrible idea given our forward woes recently. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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it was banger harvey (in a members' q&a forum) who said that elliott will end up in the midfield at some point in the future.
i'd like to see all our forwards (except KPFs) being able to run through the midfield when needed.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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Dave The Man
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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| John Wren wrote: | it was banger harvey (in a members' q&a forum) who said that elliott will end up in the midfield at some point in the future.
i'd like to see all our forwards (except KPFs) being able to run through the midfield when needed. |
Once Moore builds his Engine he can spend time in the Midfield. Did it a bit in this years U-18 Champs
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I am Da Man |
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Tannin
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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To clarify, I have no objection to having positional players (small forwards, HBFs, and so on) capable of running through the middle. None whatever: having that extra tank and flexibility is a great thing. Nevertheless, we are guilty of trying to make everyone a midfielder, and possibly for that reason we have huge difficulty manufacturing forwards who can score consistently. Every time we get a prospect who is any good up forward, we banish him into the middle. No wonder our forwards are mostly crap! We need to focus on having three or four or five players who are themselves fully focused on scoring goals. (In defence, we have a half-dozen who focus on stopping opposition goals and work as a team to that end. That is a very successful strategy, and we don't buggerise about trying to turn every successful defender into a midfielder. Yep, Williams is headed that way, but Toovey ain't. Tooves is a champion in defence and only an ordinary midfielder, plus defence is important, so they leave him there. Why can't they realise that attack is important too?
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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| Dave The Man wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | Dave The Man wrote: | | Down Back. He is a CHB AA and His Kicking out of Defence is Amazing and Sets up tons of Attacks |
But it's a mute point clearing the D50 if it just rebounds because you don't have F50 marking options.
Yes, he was AA at CHB but was recruited as a forward and may well have been an AA CHF if persisted with. There are guys who similarly are recruited as forwards who are best suited as backmen (eg Presti) but Reid has shown he can also produce as a forward. Quality key forwards are much harder to find. |
The Reason he has to play Forward because we picked up Duds in White and Lynch since we Traded Dawes as we have no one else.
Gault and Moore will play sometime up Forward at AFL Level |
I would argue that both Lynch and White were recruited as 3rd tall/ruck relief (Leroy Brown's position) whereas Dawes best footy was played when he was the 2nd key forward. Therefore we haven't actually recruited anyone to cover the move of Dawes to the Dees, Reid has actually done it best. |
Agree the 2nd KPF was Perfect For Dawes. Trying to make him a Ruckman was Stupidity by Bucks |
I'm no Buckley lover, Dave, but given the state of our list at the start of 2012, I'm not sure he had much of a choice. Leigh Brown's (premature) retirement really screwed us, because we had no one else capable of playing his role. We only had 1st years in Gault, Paine and your ex in Ceglar, along with that lump of crap Wood, none of whom were really Leigh Brown types.
I also think Tarrant's inability to get on the park in 2012 really hurt us as well, because having him in the forward line would have at least have freed Dawes up a bit more. Then again, it wasn't Chris Tarrant that robbed Dawes of his ability to take even chest marks that year... |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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Should play? In defence.
Will play? Up forward.
It's fun to watch, but it's also robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Interestingly, Dekka stated during the Trade Period that one of the reasons we made the big play for Mitch Clark is that so we could release Reid back to defence... |
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MagpieBat
Joined: 27 Nov 2010
Location: Brooding in a cave... somewhere... maybe...
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| jackcass wrote: | But it's a moot point clearing the D50 if it just rebounds because you don't have F50 marking options.
Yes, he was AA at CHB but was recruited as a forward and may well have been an AA CHF if persisted with. There are guys who similarly are recruited as forwards who are best suited as backmen (eg Presti) but Reid has shown he can also produce as a forward. Quality key forwards are much harder to find. |
I would submit that we have the following options...
1: Play Reid forward, leaving the backline without his field kicking, intercept marking and experience. The least-hassle option, and the one most popular with the fans, after we were mesmerised with his 2013 form as a KPF.
2: Play White as the 2nd forward, with one of the kids as the 'Leigh Brown', releasing Reid back. Contrary to urban myth, White's best football (his 2013 at Sydney and the 1st half of his 2014 with us) was as the 2nd forward, quarantined from the ruck. Time for him to stand up. Would be a massive win for us if he could do it consistently...
3: Play Gault as 2nd forward, with White or one of the kid rucks as the 'Leigh Brown'. Now in his 4th year, it's time for Corey Gault to stand up and become that 2nd forward, which could release Reid back. Stui likes this scenario...
4: Play one of Grundy or Witts as the 2nd forward, with White playing as the 'Leigh Brown'. Again, if Grundy (now in his 3rd year) could start to really develop his forward game, we would have a real winner and allow us to send Reid back with no hassles. Dave likes this option...
5: Play Moore from the get-go, with White or one of the kid rucks as the 'Leigh Brown'. If you take the view that 2015 is another year in the rebuild, and not one where we contend, then this is probably the best option, as it starts the transition to a post-Cloke forward line. It releases Reid back, but in the knowledge that Moore will struggle initially. Won't happen, because the club want to play Moore as a defender. Dave, I imagine, might like this option too...
6: Recruit a mature-age state league key forward in the draft. I recommend Brett Eddy, once previously our VFL team's designated KPF. Kicked 67 goals from 21 games for preliminary finalist South Adelaide in the SANFL, becoming his club's and the comp's leading goal kicker in the process. Took 136 marks, at an average of just under 6.5 marks per game. Only just turned 24 a couple of months ago. Could become our younger version of J-Pod. Releases Reid back, with White or one of the kids to ruck... |
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bwphantom
It's Better to Burn Out Than to Fade Away
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Location: Brisbane QLD
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With Maxy gone we lacked leadership amongst a very young defence. Reid needs to step up and be the general.
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All this may be summed up in one word - CHARACTER - and if that is not worth developing, nothing is.
Jock McHale |
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