Vale Gough Whitlam
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| think positive wrote: | | not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education. just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home? |
Huh? People with engineering degrees, of course. Who else?
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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my hubby always says its all going to Hell, we are losing all the manufacturing, we don't make anything, we import everything and export nothing, trades are going down the toilet (sic) we will be reliant on other countries for everything.
im imagining Davids utopia, strangely a Speilberg (bet that hurts) movie, something along the line of 12 monkeys, where fat bald men in suits sit around talking in ever increasing big words, controlling the world of robots, whilst the minion rebels plan fightbacks in the sewers. then the rich bald guys go home, being wary of the prisoners roaming the streets, (nobody deserves jail time, they are all out on trust) and partake in the now legal child sex and bestiality of their choice, probably with their mum, brother and sister.
yeah this world we now live in is a bit $%$ed, but ill stick with it thanks
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education. just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home? |
Huh? People with engineering degrees, of course. Who else? |
and get their white cuffs and soft hands dirty? I think not!!
if I had time id find the skit about just that
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | my hubby always says its all going to Hell, we are losing all the manufacturing, we don't make anything, we import everything and export nothing, trades are going down the toilet (sic) we will be reliant on other countries for everything.
im imagining Davids utopia, strangely a Speilberg (bet that hurts) movie, something along the line of 12 monkeys, where fat bald men in suits sit around talking in ever increasing big words, controlling the world of robots, whilst the minion rebels plan fightbacks in the sewers. then the rich bald guys go home, being wary of the prisoners roaming the streets, (nobody deserves jail time, they are all out on trust) and partake in the now legal child sex and bestiality of their choice, probably with their mum, brother and sister.
yeah this world we now live in is a bit $%$ed, but ill stick with it thanks |
Trust Spielberg to ruin a perfectly good idea. 
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | my hubby always says its all going to Hell, we are losing all the manufacturing, we don't make anything, we import everything and export nothing, trades are going down the toilet (sic) we will be reliant on other countries for everything.
im imagining Davids utopia, strangely a Speilberg (bet that hurts) movie, something along the line of 12 monkeys, where fat bald men in suits sit around talking in ever increasing big words, controlling the world of robots, whilst the minion rebels plan fightbacks in the sewers. then the rich bald guys go home, being wary of the prisoners roaming the streets, (nobody deserves jail time, they are all out on trust) and partake in the now legal child sex and bestiality of their choice, probably with their mum, brother and sister.
yeah this world we now live in is a bit $%$ed, but ill stick with it thanks |
Trust Spielberg to ruin a perfectly good idea. |
hehehehe! well done David, Touche!!
xxxxx
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education. just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home? |
Huh? People with engineering degrees, of course. Who else? |
Sure as hell couldn't be the ones with Arts degrees doing anything practical. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education. just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home? |
Huh? People with engineering degrees, of course. Who else? |
Sure as hell couldn't be the ones with Arts degrees doing anything practical. |
mate, I'm still at work finished 1/2 hour ago officially & still assessing the mad, bad & sad. Let me tell you all I do is practical. A BA Made me a much better clinician, policy maker, educator, lecturer, & now acute service provider.
Llecturer, I'll give you a lecture
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | No time wasters. Should hae sent 'em down the pit.
No need for musicians, artists, non-"productive" thinkers/researchers/analysts etc. Just make them all dig for coal. That will increase the sum of human happiness. |
you forgot lawyers |
TP, I would be the last person to assert that lawyers serve any generally useful function, especially commercial and public-law lawyers like me.
The difficulty for many people, though, is to choose between life-options. I have always thought (and still think) of myself as a musician first - that's the thing I do that took a lifetime's hard work and skill. Unfortunately, there is a glass ceiling for musicians - it doesn't really matter how good you are, unless you are "famous", it's a life of difficulty and limited reward. Some of my friends are "household names" but struggle to get by. Lawyering, on the other hand, enables those who are good at it to make a fortune - indeed, as the paradox would have it, even to buy the musical instruments that musicians generally can't afford.
To make this less personal to me, I have a good friend who is a startlingly capable "classical" violinist. He was, at a very young age, head-hunted to be the leader of a major string quartet in the US and had, by early adulthood, also played the most famous and difficult of the late-romantic concerti (eg, Sibelius, Berg etc) with a number of major international orchestras. He returned to Australia for personal reasons many years ago. There aren't so many opportunities here, even for startlingly talented musicians, so he was forced to choose between a position as the leader/principal violinist of one of our major symphony orchestras (for which the salary at the time was about $70K) or becoming a corporate lawyer like his father had been (for which the annual remuneration at the time was measured in the many hundreds of thousands and would now be measured in the multiple millions). Our world certainly lost out by him choosing the money, rather than the box - but he could scarcely be blamed.
It's, unfortunately, about what the society we have the misfortune to live in "values". And that is the broader point I was trying to make with my previous post. There are a vast array of allegedly "non-productive" activities that many people see as time-wasting but which I see as being the pinnacle of our cultural work, whether or nor people earn a living doing them. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Pies4shaw wrote: | No time wasters. Should hae sent 'em down the pit.
No need for musicians, artists, non-"productive" thinkers/researchers/analysts etc. Just make them all dig for coal. That will increase the sum of human happiness. |
you forgot lawyers |
TP, I would be the last person to assert that lawyers serve any generally useful function, especially commercial and public-law lawyers like me.
The difficulty for many people, though, is to choose between life-options. I have always thought (and still think) of myself as a musician first - that's the thing I do that took a lifetime's hard work and skill. Unfortunately, there is a glass ceiling for musicians - it doesn't really matter how good you are, unless you are "famous", it's a life of difficulty and limited reward. Some of my friends are "household names" but struggle to get by. Lawyering, on the other hand, enables those who are good at it to make a fortune - indeed, as the paradox would have it, even to buy the musical instruments that musicians generally can't afford.
To make this less personal to me, I have a good friend who is a startlingly capable "classical" violinist. He was, at a very young age, head-hunted to be the leader of a major string quartet in the US and had, by early adulthood, also played the most famous and difficult of the late-romantic concerti (eg, Sibelius, Berg etc) with a number of major international orchestras. He returned to Australia for personal reasons many years ago. There aren't so many opportunities here, even for startlingly talented musicians, so he was forced to choose between a position as the leader/principal violinist of one of our major symphony orchestras (for which the salary at the time was about $70K) or becoming a corporate lawyer like his father had been (for which the annual remuneration at the time was measured in the many hundreds of thousands and would now be measured in the multiple millions). Our world certainly lost out by him choosing the money, rather than the box - but he could scarcely be blamed.
It's, unfortunately, about what the society we have the misfortune to live in "values". And that is the broader point I was trying to make with my previous post. There are a vast array of allegedly "non-productive" activities that many people see as time-wasting but which I see as being the pinnacle of our cultural work, whether or nor people earn a living doing them. |
honey, i already knew your reason, i was just being a smartarse!
i have to confess though, i think one of the big problems of the world is caused by a skewered system, where you can make 10,000 for being born naturally "beautiful" and walking down a runway, or getting paid a cool million to make a tv show. how big a didn't would a season of that put in the search for a cure for cancer? as i said we have to make the best of the world we are living in, while hopefully not doing harm, and maybe making some good in the world, as you do with your love of music, at the same time, cheers
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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I guess the thing is that most "serious" jobs don't involve anything like finding a cure for cancer. We all play our little roles in making society function, sure, but I'd still rate genuine artistic achievement higher than any day job I'm likely to have in my lifetime.
Of course, having said that, I completely agree with you re: the disgusting amounts of money made by models, football players and actors/singers whose main lot in life is to have an attractive face. Personally, I can't see why anyone would even need so much money, even if they are doing something meaningful. I do believe in a meritocracy, where pay is measured according to hard work and social contribution (probably not possible under our capitalist framework, but a good goal to aspire to nonetheless).
Part of me is happy with the concept of pursuing my art (writing) in my spare time while working a tolerable day job. But I'm saddened to think of the number of artistically talented people out there who don't have time beyond their mundane office job and family to exercise their talent. At the end of the day, that's far less their personal loss than it is ours.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | I guess the thing is that most "serious" jobs don't involve anything like finding a cure for cancer. We all play our little roles in making society function, sure, but I'd still rate genuine artistic achievement higher than any day job I'm likely to have in my lifetime.
Of course, having said that, I completely agree with you re: the disgusting amounts of money made by models, football players and actors/singers whose main lot in life is to have an attractive face. Personally, I can't see why anyone would even need so much money, even if they are doing something meaningful. I do believe in a meritocracy, where pay is measured according to hard work and social contribution (probably not possible under our capitalist framework, but a good goal to aspire to nonetheless).
Part of me is happy with the concept of pursuing my art (writing) in my spare time while working a tolerable day job. But I'm saddened to think of the number of artistically talented people out there who don't have time beyond their mundane office job and family to exercise their talent. At the end of the day, that's far less their personal loss than it is ours. |
Movies and TV are a classic example of where the system is futterly ucked.
The relevant union has a reasonable amount of control over some things, but they're restrictive and messy. I read how in the US if you ask writers to submit a script for a TV show, they will get credited as the author of the script even if it's shit and you throw it all away and start again. In that case, the person who writes the final script gets credited with assisting the person who's script got binned.
Extra's and bit players get paid 9/10ths of SFA, a small handful of "stars" get paid millions and the studio (which bears all the risk and so deserves to be able to make a decent profit) make generally obscene amounts for turning out pap.
If the "Stars" didn't get it, the studio would take it all.
I have less angst about musicians as they tend to earn most of their money these days by touring so at least they work for their coin and there's supply and demand involved. The royalties are dieing with digital downloads.
Sports.....Things have been put in place to ensure that the people who put on the show get a large chunk of the money earned. Does the pure work value deserve that amount of money? No, but if the organisation is earning that money then the players get there share.
I have even less angst about the sports people than I do actors and musicians. Sports people hit their twilight come 30 if they haven't already retires with injuries. Their time frame for earning has physical limitations. Actors and Musicians can continue to earn and improve their earnings beyond 30 and up to their 70's or older.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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David, you're being blinded by the flashy lights. Look at the obscene money earned by bankers who create nothing other than debt and 'money' out of thin air that they then loan out at interest. They make actors, sports starsetc look like the poverty stricken.
Also +1 on Stui's post. I'd rather the 'talent' make a huge wad of cash than a studio exec/owner or a sports commissioner any day. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Oh, I completely agree with that. There are many people in our world earning obscene amounts of money for minimal work. Of course, rather than lowering pay rates (which is essentially a communist idea), i'd just support raising taxesnot just on individuals, but on businesses too. Re: Stui's point about sports stars, that would kill two birds with one stone.
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ David, taxes at the top marginal rate are ca 50%. I'm not sure how much more you'd like to raise them, but until you've actually built a business yourself, amd learned how hard it is to take that risk, make it work, keep it afloat on changing seas, meet a payroll.... Or until you've actually climbed the greasy workplace pole for enough years with enough distinction to pay that 50% tax rate, i'd be a little sceptical about the justice of taking it away from those that do.
The problem with the Left, I think, is the assumption that the people who earn good money somehow achieved it effortlessly and don't deserve it. In my experience, that is true of some (most real estate agents, lots of financial services and the general cartel called the medical profession spring to mind), but it's not true of many. I don't like what CEOs are paid, but I've seen the business world up close for long enough to know that very few people can do that job in a large company. A lot think they can, but funnily enough, that envious conviction is mostly proportional to the degree of ignorance about, and unsuitability for, the relentless pressures, self-control and skills that such a job entails.
As Margaret Thatcher (boo, hiss) once said - the trouble with socialists is that they always run out of other peoples' money....
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| On the other hand, I've paid the top marginal rate for about 30 years and, in my view, it should be much higher. |
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