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think positive 
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Joined: 30 Jun 2005
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | No time wasters. Should hae sent 'em down the pit.
No need for musicians, artists, non-"productive" thinkers/researchers/analysts etc. Just make them all dig for coal. That will increase the sum of human happiness. |
you forgot lawyers 
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | That is quality posting, PTID, (and not just because I agree with you). To those who glanced at it and thought "TLDR", take five to scroll up and follow it through. It's well worth it. |
I read it, it's a lovely little soap box rant drawing directly from PTiddy's philosophical stance on tertiary education, which I don't agree with. Very nice, nothing to write home about. Doesn't mean anything though.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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| stui magpie wrote: | | I read it ..... Doesn't mean anything though. |
^ Good evidence here that you could usefully brush up on your reading comprehension skills. With the benefit of - just to pick an example completely at random - an arts degree course, you'd be better able to understand and follow.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | I read it ..... Doesn't mean anything though. |
^ Good evidence here that you could usefully brush up on your reading comprehension skills. With the benefit of - just to pick an example completely at random - an arts degree course, you'd be better able to understand and follow. |
Really? Getting a degree didn't help yours
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | I read it ..... Doesn't mean anything though. |
^ Good evidence here that you could usefully brush up on your reading comprehension skills. With the benefit of - just to pick an example completely at random - an arts degree course, you'd be better able to understand and follow. |
well I LOLed!
seriously, what a bunch of snobby, arrogant poppycock bullshit!
not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education.
just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home?
get off your $$%^%%$ pedestal and stop looking down on others, man I hate all this "I have more education so im better than you" crap, and that's what it is. all you need is a nanana on the end of it!
give me a hard working willing to learn average Joe any day, to a soft handed pompous prick, who thinks spouting big words makes him superior.
what are we counting? what we leave the world in terms of benefit? who has the most expensive coffin?
as for HECS bills, why not? anyone with kids knows once the little buggers are spending their own money and not someone elses (and im talking that 50 cents a week pocket money for starters) they appreciate it and respect the power of it a darn sight more than mum paying for it! it gives them an incentive to WORK! TRY! NOT bludge off OTHERS.
gees you want to spend my hard earned on others getting an education so they can earn more, or more easily than me? I call bullshit!
and I have 2 kids at UNI!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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actually ill apologize for my rant, its disrespectful in this thread.
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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University and education in general has become a pyramid scheme. When I was a kid, you needed a year 12 certificate for most entry level jobs, in my mother's era all you needed was year 10. Now to even get a job in a mail room you need a Bachelors degree. Even diplomas aren't enough to get your foot in the door.
The Universities keep raking in the cash from useless, overpriced degrees that aren't worth the paper they're written on, and it's because the basic economics of supply and demand apply EVERYWHERE. There is now a gross oversupply of university educated people, many with hobby degrees like BAs in Gender Studies that lead absolutely nowhere, but if you don't have one then it's straight to the back of the queue for that retail position at Myer.
I don't have a solution, but making it even cheaper and easier is just making the situation worse. Tightening up entrance criteria and providing scholarships for the gifted poor would seem to me to be the best option rather than universal education at the tax payer's expense that is doing nothing other than devaluing the education received.
Those who want to learn and grow for its own sake will do so with or without a formal degree. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | I read it ..... Doesn't mean anything though. |
^ Good evidence here that you could usefully brush up on your reading comprehension skills. With the benefit of - just to pick an example completely at random - an arts degree course, you'd be better able to understand and follow. |
well I LOLed!
seriously, what a bunch of snobby, arrogant poppycock bullshit!
not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education.
just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home?
get off your $$%^%%$ pedestal and stop looking down on others, man I hate all this "I have more education so im better than you" crap, and that's what it is. all you need is a nanana on the end of it!
give me a hard working willing to learn average Joe any day, to a soft handed pompous prick, who thinks spouting big words makes him superior.
what are we counting? what we leave the world in terms of benefit? who has the most expensive coffin?
as for HECS bills, why not? anyone with kids knows once the little buggers are spending their own money and not someone elses (and im talking that 50 cents a week pocket money for starters) they appreciate it and respect the power of it a darn sight more than mum paying for it! it gives them an incentive to WORK! TRY! NOT bludge off OTHERS. |
Many university students work part-time, or even full-time to pay the bills while studying. A fair number don't live at home and don't get financial support from their parents. Painting student life as one of privileged luxury is kind of like saying prisoners get to eat caviar and sleep in four poster beds.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-15/majority-of-students-in-poverty2c-research-shows/4821230
You tend to frame this issue as one of individual achievemente.g. who's smarter than whom; who earns more than whomwhen it's far more relevant in my view to talk about overall benefit to society. That being so, I have absolutely no doubt that a better-educated society makes for a better, smarter, healthier and more mobile society. That benefits everybody.
As for manual jobs, the more that get taken by robots the better, in my view.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | I read it ..... Doesn't mean anything though. |
^ Good evidence here that you could usefully brush up on your reading comprehension skills. With the benefit of - just to pick an example completely at random - an arts degree course, you'd be better able to understand and follow. |
well I LOLed!
seriously, what a bunch of snobby, arrogant poppycock bullshit!
not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education.
just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home?
get off your $$%^%%$ pedestal and stop looking down on others, man I hate all this "I have more education so im better than you" crap, and that's what it is. all you need is a nanana on the end of it!
give me a hard working willing to learn average Joe any day, to a soft handed pompous prick, who thinks spouting big words makes him superior.
what are we counting? what we leave the world in terms of benefit? who has the most expensive coffin?
as for HECS bills, why not? anyone with kids knows once the little buggers are spending their own money and not someone elses (and im talking that 50 cents a week pocket money for starters) they appreciate it and respect the power of it a darn sight more than mum paying for it! it gives them an incentive to WORK! TRY! NOT bludge off OTHERS. |
Many university students work part-time, or even full-time to pay the bills while studying. A fair number don't live at home and don't get financial support from their parents. Painting student life as one of privileged luxury is kind of like saying prisoners get to eat caviar and sleep in four poster beds.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-15/majority-of-students-in-poverty2c-research-shows/4821230
You tend to frame this issue as one of individual achievemente.g. who's smarter than whom; who earns more than whomwhen it's far more relevant in my view to talk about overall benefit to society. That being so, I have absolutely no doubt that a better-educated society makes for a better, smarter, healthier and more mobile society. That benefits everybody.
As for manual jobs, the more that get taken by robots the better, in my view. |
I don't agree.
did you ever think some people might actually like manual labour? not everyone wants to spend time poring over books? of often useless information, and really, in some cases just someone's opinion.
both my kids work part time, and they also both work in the family business. did you ever think that maybe this super society with everyone sitting round brain storming what ever you think it Is they are brainstorming, is not the be all end all?
you know that last line smacks of someone looking down on others, and quite frankly, how dare you? what exactly are you qualified for? what have you achieved that makes you superior to, well, anyone?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
|
| Post subject: | |
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| Wokko wrote: | University and education in general has become a pyramid scheme. When I was a kid, you needed a year 12 certificate for most entry level jobs, in my mother's era all you needed was year 10. Now to even get a job in a mail room you need a Bachelors degree. Even diplomas aren't enough to get your foot in the door.
The Universities keep raking in the cash from useless, overpriced degrees that aren't worth the paper they're written on, and it's because the basic economics of supply and demand apply EVERYWHERE. There is now a gross oversupply of university educated people, many with hobby degrees like BAs in Gender Studies that lead absolutely nowhere, but if you don't have one then it's straight to the back of the queue for that retail position at Myer.
I don't have a solution, but making it even cheaper and easier is just making the situation worse. Tightening up entrance criteria and providing scholarships for the gifted poor would seem to me to be the best option rather than universal education at the tax payer's expense that is doing nothing other than devaluing the education received.
Those who want to learn and grow for its own sake will do so with or without a formal degree. |
wheres those big hands clapping!
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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partypie
Joined: 01 Oct 2010
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| I think back to my father's era - he would be 94 if he was alive. World War 2 meant there was a shortage of graduates. Those not old enough to enlist and suitable were fast tracked through uni, and after the war there were loans for veterans to get an education. There were shortages in all the professions. Dad told me he wrote an essay on the marriage of Princess Elizabeth (total rubbish in his opinion) to pass English so he could get into medicine. He worked in a factory to support us while he studied full time. |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | Tannin wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | I read it ..... Doesn't mean anything though. |
^ Good evidence here that you could usefully brush up on your reading comprehension skills. With the benefit of - just to pick an example completely at random - an arts degree course, you'd be better able to understand and follow. |
well I LOLed!
seriously, what a bunch of snobby, arrogant poppycock bullshit!
not EVERYONE needs or WANTS a tertiary education.
just imagine if everyone went to uni, who would be doing all the other stuff? who would be farming, transporting, cooking your dinner? wiping your arse in a nursing home?
get off your $$%^%%$ pedestal and stop looking down on others, man I hate all this "I have more education so im better than you" crap, and that's what it is. all you need is a nanana on the end of it!
give me a hard working willing to learn average Joe any day, to a soft handed pompous prick, who thinks spouting big words makes him superior.
what are we counting? what we leave the world in terms of benefit? who has the most expensive coffin?
as for HECS bills, why not? anyone with kids knows once the little buggers are spending their own money and not someone elses (and im talking that 50 cents a week pocket money for starters) they appreciate it and respect the power of it a darn sight more than mum paying for it! it gives them an incentive to WORK! TRY! NOT bludge off OTHERS. |
Many university students work part-time, or even full-time to pay the bills while studying. A fair number don't live at home and don't get financial support from their parents. Painting student life as one of privileged luxury is kind of like saying prisoners get to eat caviar and sleep in four poster beds.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-15/majority-of-students-in-poverty2c-research-shows/4821230
You tend to frame this issue as one of individual achievemente.g. who's smarter than whom; who earns more than whomwhen it's far more relevant in my view to talk about overall benefit to society. That being so, I have absolutely no doubt that a better-educated society makes for a better, smarter, healthier and more mobile society. That benefits everybody.
As for manual jobs, the more that get taken by robots the better, in my view. |
I don't agree.
did you ever think some people might actually like manual labour? not everyone wants to spend time poring over books? of often useless information, and really, in some cases just someone's opinion.
both my kids work part time, and they also both work in the family business. did you ever think that maybe this super society with everyone sitting round brain storming what ever you think it Is they are brainstorming, is not the be all end all?
you know that last line smacks of someone looking down on others, and quite frankly, how dare you? what exactly are you qualified for? what have you achieved that makes you superior to, well, anyone? |
TP, it seems there is a disconnect between what David wrote & what you replied. Why is that someone, anyone for that matter who espouses the virtues of the idea that good education can be a benefit for not just the individual but for all, seems to be invariably met with lines like: looking down on others, get off your high horse, snobbishness etc?
What David is arguing does not mean that others can't choose manual labour. There is no better or worse - That's an interpretation you've placed on it.
The cost to go to Uni is being made way too expensive now for most people most of the time. Gough's legacy amongst other things was to open access to more than just the privileged few.
In fact the cost of TAFE is bizarre, disproportionate & prevents & limits access to things like apprenticeships. Apprenticeships used to be publicly funded through government enterprises that have now been privatised & private companies just don't do it (like they used to) due to economic rationalism.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman
Last edited by watt price tully on Mon Oct 27, 2014 11:19 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | Many university students work part-time, or even full-time to pay the bills while studying. A fair number don't live at home and don't get financial support from their parents. Painting student life as one of privileged luxury is kind of like saying prisoners get to eat caviar and sleep in four poster beds.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-15/majority-of-students-in-poverty2c-research-shows/4821230
You tend to frame this issue as one of individual achievemente.g. who's smarter than whom; who earns more than whomwhen it's far more relevant in my view to talk about overall benefit to society. That being so, I have absolutely no doubt that a better-educated society makes for a better, smarter, healthier and more mobile society. That benefits everybody.
As for manual jobs, the more that get taken by robots the better, in my view. |
I don't agree.
did you ever think some people might actually like manual labour? not everyone wants to spend time poring over books? of often useless information, and really, in some cases just someone's opinion.
both my kids work part time, and they also both work in the family business. did you ever think that maybe this super society with everyone sitting round brain storming what ever you think it Is they are brainstorming, is not the be all end all?
you know that last line smacks of someone looking down on others, and quite frankly, how dare you? what exactly are you qualified for? what have you achieved that makes you superior to, well, anyone? |
Re the bolded bit: a country with close to 100% intellectual and philosophical engagement? That sounds like utopia to me. Definitely a society with fewer prejudices, less misinformation, less violence, less crime and more progress in all sorts of technological, medical and artistic fields. Definitely a society with better and more accountable leaders.
As for the last part, superiority has nothing to do with it. Think of an older society in which every part of, say, the manufacturing process had to be done by hand. Work was much harder and much more menial, and left little time for political engagement or critical thought. Many, many people were required to do jobs like that. By lightening that burden, technological advancement has enabled a thinking society to flourish. I see that as real progress, and there is scope for much more.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace
Last edited by David on Tue Oct 28, 2014 12:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| Post subject: | |
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| David wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | David wrote: | Many university students work part-time, or even full-time to pay the bills while studying. A fair number don't live at home and don't get financial support from their parents. Painting student life as one of privileged luxury is kind of like saying prisoners get to eat caviar and sleep in four poster beds.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-15/majority-of-students-in-poverty2c-research-shows/4821230
You tend to frame this issue as one of individual achievemente.g. who's smarter than whom; who earns more than whomwhen it's far more relevant in my view to talk about overall benefit to society. That being so, I have absolutely no doubt that a better-educated society makes for a better, smarter, healthier and more mobile society. That benefits everybody.
As for manual jobs, the more that get taken by robots the better, in my view. |
I don't agree.
did you ever think some people might actually like manual labour? not everyone wants to spend time poring over books? of often useless information, and really, in some cases just someone's opinion.
both my kids work part time, and they also both work in the family business. did you ever think that maybe this super society with everyone sitting round brain storming what ever you think it Is they are brainstorming, is not the be all end all?
you know that last line smacks of someone looking down on others, and quite frankly, how dare you? what exactly are you qualified for? what have you achieved that makes you superior to, well, anyone? |
Re the bolded bit: a country with close to 100% intellectual and philosophical engagement? That sounds like utopia to me.
I don't think there's any truly useless information, nor useless fields of study.
As for the last part, superiority has nothing to do with it. Think of an older society in which every part of, say, the manufacturing process had to be done by hand. Work was much harder and much more menial, and left little time for political engagement or critical thought. Many, many people were required to do jobs like that. By lightening that burden, technological advancement has enabled a thinking society to flourish. I see that as real progress, and there is scope for much more. |
Sounds like sheer and utter $$%^%%$ boredom to me. Like watching a doco channel 24 hours a day with my eyes wired open.
Tell me what's the firing order of a V8, and why?
_________________
You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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1-2-7-8-4-5-6-3 for Holden V8s, but it varies for Cadillacs and Ferraris.
The firing order is the sequence of power delivery of each cylinder in a multi-cylinder reciprocating engine.
This is achieved by sparking of the spark plugs in a gasoline engine in the correct order, or by the sequence of fuel injection in a Diesel engine. When designing an engine, choosing an appropriate firing order is critical to minimizing vibration, to improve engine balance and achieving smooth running, for long engine fatigue life and user comfort, and heavily influences crankshaft design.
I learned this through my degree in plagiarism from the University of Wikipedia. 
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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