Ban on Cage Fighting
Users browsing this topic:0 Registered, 0 Hidden and 0 Guests
Registered Users: None |
 |
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| Wokko wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | Those big gloves are only to protect against cuts and broken hands, the blunt force is no different. In fact there's an argument that they prevent outright KOs by distributing force, meaning the fighter takes more punishment.
The grappling side of things is a bit of a mystery to those who don't do it or understand it but once you get even a rudimentry understanding then it's intriguing. I've had to learn the striking nuance like footwork, counters, head movement etc. The fans who like to watch bloody brawls are called the 'just bleed' crowd and are looked down on by educated fans.
|
That's exactly right. There is a lot about the gloves causing far more damage compared to bare knuckle boxing etc.
With respect to grappling you should give Judo, Hapkido and or Jui Jitsu if you're not doing that already. Learning how to fall then grappling & wrestling is a great art. I wish I did wrestling as a young fella. Really interesting. Combine that with yoga & the range of movement can be handy when wrestling / grappling. |
Yeah I do Brazilian Jiu Jitsu which is an off shoot of Judo. Rather than focusing on throws like Judo which is 90% standing it focuses on the ground work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazilian_jiu-jitsu
Love it. |
Yeah, the style I did also did a lot of groundwork too. Nothing like someone's sweaty armpits or behind near your face towards the end of the 2 hour training period.
The other Brazilian indigenous style is interesting: Caporiera (H was into it at one point in time)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capoeira
I used to love my years of judo, jui jitsu & chinese boxing as it was strangely named
_________________
“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
|
|
|
 |
HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| For real. Would you like to know more? |
|
|
|
|
David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 1061 wrote: | | David wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | | for some it's their only meal ticket. |
And that's where we potentially get into the realm of exploitation. I still don't think it should be banned, though; perhaps just better regulated. |
How would you regulate it then David? |
The same as any workplacemake sure participants have access to a fair wage, entitlements and ability to quit when they want. Make sure that health and safety are prioritised; that competitors are carefully assessed for any medical issues, whether pre-existing or caused by fights. Force the overarching sporting organisation to have rules against actions that are likely to cause serious injury. Perhaps enforce mental health assessments to ensure that aspiring fighters have the capacity to know what they're getting into. And so on: I'm sure there are other potential areas of regulation I haven't thought of.
Those are just a few suggestions, and I'm sure that many of them are already in practice. Banning the sport and forcing it underground will ensure that few if any of these regulations are enforced, and the result will be a far less safe environment for competitors.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
|
|
|
|
King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| watt price tully wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | Those big gloves are only to protect against cuts and broken hands, the blunt force is no different. In fact there's an argument that they prevent outright KOs by distributing force, meaning the fighter takes more punishment.
The grappling side of things is a bit of a mystery to those who don't do it or understand it but once you get even a rudimentry understanding then it's intriguing. I've had to learn the striking nuance like footwork, counters, head movement etc. The fans who like to watch bloody brawls are called the 'just bleed' crowd and are looked down on by educated fans.
|
That's exactly right. There is a lot about the gloves causing far more damage compared to bare knuckle boxing etc.
With respect to grappling you should give Judo, Hapkido and or Jui Jitsu if you're not doing that already. Learning how to fall then grappling & wrestling is a great art. I wish I did wrestling as a young fella. Really interesting. Combine that with yoga & the range of movement can be handy when wrestling / grappling. |
MMA is pretty much a combination of those disciplines you've just mentioned with added striking allowed.
Striking without padded gloves leads to cuts from almost every accurate punch, which leads to blood, which leads to the sport appearing more dangerous & brutal than it actually is.
As for the boxing glove discussion - try getting hit with an 8oz glove, then get hit by the same person with a 16oz glove then get your sparring partner to clock you bare knuckled - and tell me the gloves don't make a difference to the impact felt.
Sorry guys, but the gloves absolutely do make a difference.
A bare knuckled fight would go nowhere near 12 rounds now would it?..........
(There is a valid point somewhere in there about the accumalitive effect though.)
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
|
|
|
|
King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | David wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | | for some it's their only meal ticket. |
And that's where we potentially get into the realm of exploitation. I still don't think it should be banned, though; perhaps just better regulated. |
How would you regulate it then David? |
The same as any workplacemake sure participants have access to a fair wage, entitlements and ability to quit when they want. Make sure that health and safety are prioritised; that competitors are carefully assessed for any medical issues, whether pre-existing or caused by fights. Force the overarching sporting organisation to have rules against actions that are likely to cause serious injury. Perhaps enforce mental health assessments to ensure that aspiring fighters have the capacity to know what they're getting into. And so on: I'm sure there are other potential areas of regulation I haven't thought of.
Those are just a few suggestions, and I'm sure that many of them are already in practice. Banning the sport and forcing it underground will ensure that few if any of these regulations are enforced, and the result will be a far less safe environment for competitors. |
The "meal ticket" point I was making - was more about people without any other prospects; little or no education, a troubled upbringing, coming from a poor family, etc, etc, who have a talent for the sport that can be harnessed correctly through respect and discipline in a gym.
Boxing, and MMA now too I guess, are genuine pathways to being able to lead a fulfilling life after coming from the other side of the tracks.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
|
|
|
|
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| David wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | David wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | | for some it's their only meal ticket. |
And that's where we potentially get into the realm of exploitation. I still don't think it should be banned, though; perhaps just better regulated. |
How would you regulate it then David? |
The same as any workplacemake sure participants have access to a fair wage, entitlements and ability to quit when they want. Make sure that health and safety are prioritised; that competitors are carefully assessed for any medical issues, whether pre-existing or caused by fights. Force the overarching sporting organisation to have rules against actions that are likely to cause serious injury. Perhaps enforce mental health assessments to ensure that aspiring fighters have the capacity to know what they're getting into. And so on: I'm sure there are other potential areas of regulation I haven't thought of.
Those are just a few suggestions, and I'm sure that many of them are already in practice. Banning the sport and forcing it underground will ensure that few if any of these regulations are enforced, and the result will be a far less safe environment for competitors. |
You've pretty much described the current regulations for MMA fighters. The athletes are however contractors, so there is huge money at the top end and barely reasonable at the bottom, but that's like any sport I guess. If you're not good enough, then you don't get paid.
There is a big issue with fighter pay in the UFC as it has become a defacto monopoly having bought out the other organizations, but most seem happy enough. Lack of competition is an issue though.
I would add to what you've said there needs to be more done about performance enhancing drugs in the sport, even to the level of olympic style testing. There is a big incentive to use these dangerous and damaging drugs, and in a sport where your enhanced physicality is damaging someone else, I think it's a real problem. There is one fighter, Michael Bisping a brit all of whose losses came to fighters who subsequently got popped for PEDs or were using Testosterone replacement before it was banned. |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| King Monkey wrote: |
The "meal ticket" point I was making - was more about people without any other prospects; little or no education, a troubled upbringing, coming from a poor family, etc, etc, who have a talent for the sport that can be harnessed correctly through respect and discipline in a gym.
Boxing, and MMA now too I guess, are genuine pathways to being able to lead a fulfilling life after coming from the other side of the tracks. |
A very common story in MMA, and I would assume boxing is the "If I wasn't doing this I'd be dead or in jail". You hear time and time again about young men saved from lives of crime and violence through the martial arts (and yes, western boxing IS a martial art). |
|
|
|
|
Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| King Monkey wrote: | | watt price tully wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | Those big gloves are only to protect against cuts and broken hands, the blunt force is no different. In fact there's an argument that they prevent outright KOs by distributing force, meaning the fighter takes more punishment.
The grappling side of things is a bit of a mystery to those who don't do it or understand it but once you get even a rudimentry understanding then it's intriguing. I've had to learn the striking nuance like footwork, counters, head movement etc. The fans who like to watch bloody brawls are called the 'just bleed' crowd and are looked down on by educated fans.
|
That's exactly right. There is a lot about the gloves causing far more damage compared to bare knuckle boxing etc.
With respect to grappling you should give Judo, Hapkido and or Jui Jitsu if you're not doing that already. Learning how to fall then grappling & wrestling is a great art. I wish I did wrestling as a young fella. Really interesting. Combine that with yoga & the range of movement can be handy when wrestling / grappling. |
MMA is pretty much a combination of those disciplines you've just mentioned with added striking allowed.
Striking without padded gloves leads to cuts from almost every accurate punch, which leads to blood, which leads to the sport appearing more dangerous & brutal than it actually is.
As for the boxing glove discussion - try getting hit with an 8oz glove, then get hit by the same person with a 16oz glove then get your sparring partner to clock you bare knuckled - and tell me the gloves don't make a difference to the impact felt.
Sorry guys, but the gloves absolutely do make a difference.
A bare knuckled fight would go nowhere near 12 rounds now would it?..........
(There is a valid point somewhere in there about the accumalitive effect though.) |
You're first point is spot on.
You're second point especially the end is correct too, knuckes light gloves and so on sting more cut more do more immediate damage but the percussive effect of bigger gloves the amount of punishment they allow you to take ....well...
Remember watching a prime tszyu fight, he hit you flush while set once the fight was over, just a matter of time and the amount of punishment a fighter would take before the world caught up. |
|
|
|
|
King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^Would love to start a discussion of boxing styles.
Loved K.Tszyu's movement; subtle but commanding, controlled the ring like not many I've ever seen.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
|
|
|
|
3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Boxing styles huh?
As a warm up I prefer a straight left jab to the moosh...
Last edited by 3.14159 on Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| King Monkey wrote: | ^Would love to start a discussion of boxing styles.
Loved K.Tszyu's movement; subtle but commanding, controlled the ring like not many I've ever seen. |
Keep on going then.
Mike Tyson in his early days leading up to becoming the youngest heavyweight champ was supernatural. It wasn't just his punching power but the way he could slip a punch as if his head was able to slide from side to side. People would jab at him and he'd walk through them without getting hit.
Ali was more than a strong chin and a big mouth. I've got the Rumble in the Jungle on DVD, the old rope a dope, he let Foreman punch himself out by catching the punches on his shoulders and upper arms. And Foreman could fkn hit. I remember when he made his comeback, he was fat and bald but had a cannon in each hand.
Fenech was a brawler but I loved watching him.
Lester Ellis was an excellent technician.
As you can probably guess I haven't watched a lot of boxing in the last 10-20 years 
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
If you like head movement watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KPjQZzxj6vk
Sad thing is he kept fighting like this and eventually got older and slower and got brutally knocked out with his hands low and jiving around, but hey when he pulled it off it looked magical. |
|
|
|
|
laird
Joined: 10 Oct 2009
Location: Perth
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | ^Would love to start a discussion of boxing styles.
Loved K.Tszyu's movement; subtle but commanding, controlled the ring like not many I've ever seen. |
Keep on going then.
Mike Tyson in his early days leading up to becoming the youngest heavyweight champ was supernatural. It wasn't just his punching power but the way he could slip a punch as if his head was able to slide from side to side. People would jab at him and he'd walk through them without getting hit.
Ali was more than a strong chin and a big mouth. I've got the Rumble in the Jungle on DVD, the old rope a dope, he let Foreman punch himself out by catching the punches on his shoulders and upper arms. And Foreman could fkn hit. I remember when he made his comeback, he was fat and bald but had a cannon in each hand.
Fenech was a brawler but I loved watching him.
Lester Ellis was an excellent technician.
As you can probably guess I haven't watched a lot of boxing in the last 10-20 years |
Pure rage and power! Tyson was beaten only by himself.
Oh I so enjoyed the look on opponents faces when mike just glared and paced in his corner. He did not just want to box or to win, Tyson wanted to kill anyone who dared step in the ring with him - and they knew it.
What a waste of talent.
_________________
" Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye" ? |
|
|
|
|
Woods Of Ypres
Joined: 27 May 2003
Location: Yugoslavia
|
|
|
|
|
King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
|
| Post subject: | |
|
^Marco Antonio Barrera stopped him in his tracks quick smart!!
If a fan of the sport, for pure entertainment, look up the first 2 Barrera vs Eric Morales fights. Non-stop action from 2 great fighters. Plenty of technique involved too, not just 2 guys going to-to-toe recklessly. (Mostly.)
| laird wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | King Monkey wrote: | ^Would love to start a discussion of boxing styles.
Loved K.Tszyu's movement; subtle but commanding, controlled the ring like not many I've ever seen. |
Keep on going then.
Mike Tyson in his early days leading up to becoming the youngest heavyweight champ was supernatural. It wasn't just his punching power but the way he could slip a punch as if his head was able to slide from side to side. People would jab at him and he'd walk through them without getting hit.
Ali was more than a strong chin and a big mouth. I've got the Rumble in the Jungle on DVD, the old rope a dope, he let Foreman punch himself out by catching the punches on his shoulders and upper arms. And Foreman could fkn hit. I remember when he made his comeback, he was fat and bald but had a cannon in each hand.
Fenech was a brawler but I loved watching him.
Lester Ellis was an excellent technician.
As you can probably guess I haven't watched a lot of boxing in the last 10-20 years |
Pure rage and power! Tyson was beaten only by himself.
Oh I so enjoyed the look on opponents faces when mike just glared and paced in his corner. He did not just want to box or to win, Tyson wanted to kill anyone who dared step in the ring with him - and they knew it.
What a waste of talent. |
We're on the same page re Iron Mike there Stui!!
Every time the topic of Tyson comes up, I like to point out what a great defensive fighter he was pre-Douglas/pre-Prison. You just couldn't hit the guy.
His attacking attributes wouldn't have been AS potent without the great defence.
Ali was great, don't get me wrong by my previous comment (in another thread I think), it's just that purely as a boxer on a technical level he wasn't "The Greatest" at all. Still very good though.
In my opinion, he got hit too often, got into too many "wars" to be the greatest on a technical level. Ones that he wasn't always in control of like the Foreman fight.
What makes him one of the greats though, obviously, was his brilliance at out-thinking his opponents both inside and outside the ring.
Still, had/has everyone bluffed as "The Greatest" though.
To me, the greatest I've ever seen is Floyd Mayweather Jnr. Can't stand the guy, his public persona repulses me, but if you can't hit a guy, you can't beat him!! He's never really been hurt properly in 47 professional fights. Very accurate puncher too, doesn't waste too many for the sake of throwing 'em.
My 2 all time favourites to watch style wise:
1) Kostya Tszyu.
His ring generalship was outstanding. Adding to what Museman said earlier, his opponents would be constantly out of position, frustrated, disheartened, and by the time he'd land a straight right flush on the chin they didn't want to be there anymore.
The guy that is currently (one of  ) Middleweight Champion, Gennedy Golovkin, reminds me a lot of Tszyu in this sense.
2) Vernon Forrest.
"All you need to beat speed, is a jab."
Long reach, great jab, extremely tall for a welterweight (would've been relatively tall for a Light-Heavyweight) great at cutting off the ring also.
Will never forget his first fight with Shane Moseley, who was rated pound-for-pound King by most at the time and was something like 34-0. Gave him a 12 round lesson in the art of "hit and don't get hit", to become Welterweight Champ. Defended in a rematch too to prove it wasn't just an off night for Moseley.
Lost to a guy called Ricardo Mayorga due to a lucky haymaker, convincingly beat him over 12 rounds in a rematch only to cop a shocker of a decision, and was not really the same afterwards despite winning the title a couple of times at Junior-Middleweight.
Far from the greatest, but one of my favourites anyway.
R.I.P. (Died in a car crash a few years ago.)
Just a couple of small asides -
- Fenech wasn't robbed in the Azuma Nelson fight in Vegas, it's just that he and most of Australia forgot about the first 6 or 7 rounds!! 
- Anthony Mundine could've been World Class based on talent, but got one-punch KO'd whilst convincingly leading a World Title Fight by a non-power puncher early in his career and has fought accordingly since. (He has never been a "World Champion" either, but don't let the truth get in the way of a good story!!)
Well, you did tell me to keep going Stui..........!!!!
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
