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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Post subject: Is Leading Teams hurting us? |  |
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This is pure conjecture on my part, as I know nothing specific about the work the consultants 'Leading Teams' have been doing at our club.
However, I read today that one of the factors influencing Daisy to consider a move to Carlton, is that he does not like the influence of 'Leading Teams'.
I'm always sceptical about outside consultants trying to effect cultural change from outside. Culture should be something organic, which grows from below, not imposed from above. Also, a football club is not a widget factory. Successful footy clubs play with passion, because they have an incredible team bond.
I just hope that in our pursuit of excellence and professionalism that we don't take all the fun out of the club. This would kill our club culture. For all I know Leading teams are doing a great job, but the whispers around the place suggest that this might not be the case. I hope i'm wrong. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Is Leading Teams hurting us? | |
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| RudeBoy wrote: | This is pure conjecture on my part, as I know nothing specific about the work the consultants 'Leading Teams' have been doing at our club.
However, I read today that one of the factors influencing Daisy to consider a move to Carlton, is that he does not like the influence of 'Leading Teams'.
I'm always sceptical about outside consultants trying to effect cultural change from outside. Culture should be something organic, which grows from below, not imposed from above. Also, a football club is not a widget factory. Successful footy clubs play with passion, because they have an incredible team bond.
I just hope that in our pursuit of excellence and professionalism that we don't take all the fun out of the club. This would kill our club culture. For all I know Leading teams are doing a great job, but the whispers around the place suggest that this might not be the case. I hope i'm wrong. |
it's one of the first things roos is going to do with melbourne ... get leading teams in. i have heard brad johnson amongst others speak highly of it. those that do speak highly of it acknowledge it is confronting and not everyone's cup of tea. i think aker was against it.
leading teams was responsible for rebuilding the swans' culture and contributed to the no dickheads policy.
if everything was rosy you wouldn't really need an organisation like them to come in.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Here's a good article.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-20/leading-teams-explained
Pretty much it aims to empower players to instill a culture at the club, and it works when all the players decide to 'buy in' to the culture shift. This is why players who have stood apart or above a culture of discipline (Aker) get their noses out of joint and often leave. If we've got players who are either resisting the change or outright fighting against it then there is going to be issues.
If as has been reported our younger talent is signing on to the new Buckleyesque cultural shift then we're going to see some old stagers moved on. As we know a Champion team will usually beat a team of Champions, so don't be surprised if we lose a few good players to ensure the new culture is successful.
Tbh, this whole shift from the Malthouse 'different rules for star players' to the Buckley 'my way or the highway' is even more important than any issues with the Gameplan or personnel. |
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Deja Vu
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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I once attended a lunchtime seminar where the guest speaker was the founder of leading teams. This was about 4 years ago now but i remember that i I walked away impressed.
I understand that this method is not for everyone but it has been successful at Sydney and Geelong - teams known for their strong culture.
MM was never a fan of it because I think his style was a bit more old school. Leading Teams is very much about empowering the playing group whereas MM was a "my way or the high way" guy. Neither method is right or wrong I guess but I would think that the majority of modern AFL coaches would follow a leading teams type model.
I also think that one method is less likely to leave a leadership vacuum when the coach leaves, because it relies on the team being able to get the most out of themselves. Which is somewhat ironic given that Mick's on field philosophy was that everyone plays their role and no one is irreplaceable.
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Wokko
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Deja Vu wrote: | | ...MM was a "my way or the high way" guy. |
Unless your name was C.Tarrant. Mick let good players get away with far too much. |
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Deja Vu
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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Yes because he decided on the punishment and the buck always stopped with him. Under a leading teams model the player's peers would decide on the appropriate punishment.
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mandy 
Joined: 03 Jun 2001
Location: Glen Iris
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| Wokko wrote: | | Deja Vu wrote: | | ...MM was a "my way or the high way" guy. |
Unless your name was C.Tarrant. Mick let good players get away with far too much. |
I don't know if that's such a negative. One thing about Mick is that he knew not all players could be treated exactly the same way to get exactly the same results.
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Wokko wrote: | Here's a good article.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-20/leading-teams-explained
Pretty much it aims to empower players to instill a culture at the club, and it works when all the players decide to 'buy in' to the culture shift. This is why players who have stood apart or above a culture of discipline (Aker) get their noses out of joint and often leave. If we've got players who are either resisting the change or outright fighting against it then there is going to be issues.
If as has been reported our younger talent is signing on to the new Buckleyesque cultural shift then we're going to see some old stagers moved on. As we know a Champion team will usually beat a team of Champions, so don't be surprised if we lose a few good players to ensure the new culture is successful.
Tbh, this whole shift from the Malthouse 'different rules for star players' to the Buckley 'my way or the highway' is even more important than any issues with the Gameplan or personnel. |
Apparently Daisy does not like them. He's hardly an 'old stager' or a recalcitrant. He's a passionate player with the utmost professionalism. I'm also a bit concerned that this notion that our problem is with the 'ratpack'. FFS, Swan has been one of our best players all year and was clearly our best in the elimination final. As for Heater, he was a member of the ratpack when he laid the 'smother of the millennium' in 2010 and has been one of our best players, who gives his all every week. Sure he had a brain fade on the weekend, and clearly plays better further up the ground, but we have numerous other players who let us down on the weekend, who are probably considered 'good citizens'.
I hope these consultants are doing a good job, but I remain sceptical about a cultural change process being engineered from above - despite their rhetoric being all about empowerment. |
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3rd degree 
Joined: 22 Jun 2004
Location: John Wren's tote
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | Here's a good article.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-07-20/leading-teams-explained
Pretty much it aims to empower players to instill a culture at the club, and it works when all the players decide to 'buy in' to the culture shift. This is why players who have stood apart or above a culture of discipline (Aker) get their noses out of joint and often leave. If we've got players who are either resisting the change or outright fighting against it then there is going to be issues.
If as has been reported our younger talent is signing on to the new Buckleyesque cultural shift then we're going to see some old stagers moved on. As we know a Champion team will usually beat a team of Champions, so don't be surprised if we lose a few good players to ensure the new culture is successful.
Tbh, this whole shift from the Malthouse 'different rules for star players' to the Buckley 'my way or the highway' is even more important than any issues with the Gameplan or personnel. |
Apparently Daisy does not like them. He's hardly an 'old stager' or a recalcitrant. He's a passionate player with the utmost professionalism. I'm also a bit concerned that this notion that our problem is with the 'ratpack'. FFS, Swan has been one of our best players all year and was clearly our best in the elimination final. As for Heater, he was a member of the ratpack when he laid the 'smother of the millennium' in 2010 and has been one of our best players, who gives his all every week. Sure he had a brain fade on the weekend, and clearly plays better further up the ground, but we have numerous other players who let us down on the weekend, who are probably considered 'good citizens'.
I hope these consultants are doing a good job, but I remain sceptical about a cultural change process being engineered from above - despite their rhetoric being all about empowerment. |
The Media need a prissy little term like " Rat Pack" to keep the masses happy ! I guess Heath Shaw is Sintara !
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" Ohhh Banksy and out comes the Note Book".
www.facebook/the hybernators |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Deja Vu wrote: | | Yes because he decided on the punishment and the buck always stopped with him. Under a leading teams model the player's peers would decide on the appropriate punishment. |
THIS is an area of concern. To have a harmonious close knit group using this line of model and practice, you need players who are able to mentally handle harsh peer reviews and hard nosed, challenging and confronting methods used to tease out bad habits or undesired attributes. You need to leave your ego well behind and learn stuff like humility, consideration of others views and that we all beat to different drums etc.
Not all players will have the personalities or the nature to be able to handle this fairly confronting process, and you will find that Bucks will slowly but surely weed them out.
Whilst I support Bucks with this in the long run for the ultimate benefit of the club, my major concern is that in the short term during transition, we will lose players like Daisy and others who may not be willing to support this rigid leading teams model. |
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Tannin 
Can't remember
Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Location: Huon Valley Tasmania
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The Leading Teams program isolated Jason Akermanis as a problematic member of the side, and booted him out on the "no dickheads" principle.
Shrug.
It can't be that bad.
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�Let's eat Grandma.� Commas save lives! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| It depends on what the meaning of the word "it" is. |
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uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR
Joined: 01 Nov 2004
Location: Under negotiation
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | I hope these consultants are doing a good job, but I remain sceptical about a cultural change process being engineered from above - despite their rhetoric being all about empowerment. |
I know what you mean. The thought of 'manufacturing' what is a form of team spirit is a strange concept to me. Obviously it's been identified that this area could be improved & I'm not entirely against it. When you have a large group of diverse young men spending a heap of time together, it could be a positive influence to guide them in this direction. Whether it's a system that works for all is something that I have my doubts about. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| uuuuu..... The LoneSTAR wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | I hope these consultants are doing a good job, but I remain sceptical about a cultural change process being engineered from above - despite their rhetoric being all about empowerment. |
I know what you mean. The thought of 'manufacturing' what is a form of team spirit is a strange concept to me. Obviously it's been identified that this area could be improved & I'm not entirely against it. When you have a large group of diverse young men spending a heap of time together, it could be a positive influence to guide them in this direction. Whether it's a system that works for all is something that I have my doubts about. |
Exactly my point. |
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Tannin wrote: | The Leading Teams program isolated Jason Akermanis as a problematic member of the side, and booted him out on the "no dickheads" principle.
Shrug.
It can't be that bad. |
Hmmm and haven't the Doggies kicked on since then...
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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