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| Were Julie and Mark wrong to have sex? |
| No |
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| Yes, but it shouldn't be against the law. |
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| Yes, and it should be against the law. |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| David wrote: | But what if birth control is used, Jo? Would it still be "just wrong"? And who decides these things?
Lest we forget, until relatively recently, many people said exactly the same thing about homosexual relationships. "It's just wrong."
| Mugwump wrote: | Yes it definitely should be unlawful.
One of the functions of law is to encode standards and set minimum expectations within society. If you legalise it, it will grow and become implicitly acceptable, then open to all kinds of abuse and exploitation in all kinds of dysfunctional and barely-functional settings. It's a non-problem today that will become a problem if we decriminalise it. |
Doesn't the rarity of its current occurrence (at least, that we know of) suggest that this is unlikely to ever be the case? That is, would you really be substantially more likely to sleep with your siblings if you knew it wasn't unlawful? I can state with a fair degree of conviction that the law isn't the only thing preventing me from proposing to my sister!
My suspicion is that this is one law (like old-fashioned sodomy and adultery laws) where legal deterrent plays a pretty minor role. Either you and your sibling want to have sex or you don't, and it seems fairly evident to me that the majority of us already fall into the latter category. For the very few who do, I doubt the law holds them back. The only real question for me is whether they should be punished for it, and to me it seems pretty clear they shouldn't be. |
Still wrong!
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Mugwump wrote: | | The problem may or may not be a moral one (though i think it is) but it is certainly a social/moral one. Brothers and sisters in families are placed together in households in conditions which provide boundless opportunities for sexual exploitation and misadventure at a very vulnerable, confused and injudicious time of life. The damage legalisation would do far outweighs the "problem" presented by prohibition. |
I'm talking about adults, though, not children or teenagers. Although I see the problems you allude to in a household situation, it seems implausible to me that the legal status of incest could play any role in affecting whether or not sibling minors engage in sexual interaction. If the law is already a weak deterrent when regulating the sexual behaviour of consenting adults, then how much more negligible is it in regulating the actions of children? And, being minors, are they even really bound by current laws anyway?
I understand what you mean by the relationship between legal and social prohibitions, but I don't necessarily think that the removal of the first need majorly affect the second. Consider the phenomenon of prostitution, for instance: it has increasingly been decriminalised and regulated in Western countries, but is it really any less of a taboo nowadays to visit a brothel? If anything, it seems to have become less common (I get the impression from old European movies, at least, that it was something of a rite of passage for young men in generations past, whereas now it seems, at least in the popular imagination, to be the domain of old men and wandering middle-aged husbands).
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| think positive wrote: | | HAL wrote: | | What is wrong with your old experience for each of them? |
mate, im wondering the same thing!! scary, whats his sisters or brothers  look like! |
I heard rumours that there has been an interchanging of parts over the years. This could be a very ugly situation.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| David wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | The problem may or may not be a moral one (though i think it is) but it is certainly a social/moral one. Brothers and sisters in families are placed together in households in conditions which provide boundless opportunities for sexual exploitation and misadventure at a very vulnerable, confused and injudicious time of life. The damage legalisation would do far outweighs the "problem" presented by prohibition. |
I'm talking about adults, though, not children or teenagers. Although I see the problems you allude to in a household situation, it seems implausible to me that the legal status of incest could play any role in affecting whether or not sibling minors engage in sexual interaction. If the law is already a weak deterrent when regulating the sexual behaviour of consenting adults, then how much more negligible is it in regulating the actions of children? And, being minors, are they even really bound by current laws anyway?
I understand what you mean by the relationship between legal and social prohibitions, but I don't necessarily think that the removal of the first need majorly affect the second. Consider the phenomenon of prostitution, for instance: it has increasingly been decriminalised and regulated in Western countries, but is it really any less of a taboo nowadays to visit a brothel? If anything, it seems to have become less common (I get the impression from old European movies, at least, that it was something of a rite of passage for young men in generations past, whereas now it seems, at least in the popular imagination, to be the domain of old men and wandering middle-aged husbands). |
If I went to a brothel it would involve a rite of passage. The last passage way I would see in my house would be the hall way as I was thrown out the front door.
II think I'll pass.
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Now Retired - Every Day Is A Saturday |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Good then you can explain it to me. |
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Member 7167
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| Mugwump wrote: | Yes it definitely should be unlawful.
One of the functions of law is to encode standards and set minimum expectations within society. If you legalise it, it will grow and become implicitly acceptable, then open to all kinds of abuse and exploitation in all kinds of dysfunctional and barely-functional settings. It's a non-problem today that will become a problem if we decriminalise it. |
If you condone incest then It would be reasonable to assume that it would lead at least in some cases to a couple maintaining a spousal relationship. I have read that the gene pool of people practising a common religion that caters for marriage between cousins has deteriorated considerably. As a result, people practicing this particular religion are over represented in Western Countries on a per capita basis for birth deformities and confinement to hospitals treating mental conditions.
Two teenagers experimenting with sex is one thing but exploitation by predatory adults and other issues as details above are not worth the risk.
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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This is an extremely minor, peripheral issue, I'd say. Some of you have watched Spanking the Monkey a few too many times, perhaps!
We simply don't have the environmental or societal conditions for this to become anything more than an extremely uncommon deviance highly localised to a small handful of peculiarly dysfunctional people.
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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ha, david is going to so love those labels!!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| pietillidie wrote: | This is an extremely minor, peripheral issue, I'd say. Some of you have watched Spanking the Monkey a few too many times, perhaps!
We simply don't have the environmental or societal conditions for this to become anything more than an extremely uncommon deviance highly localised to a small handful of peculiarly dysfunctional people. |
Yes, I'm certainly not arguing it needs to become a national priority. But the fact remains that, peripheral or not, this is something people get convicted for every now and then, and I think it's worth asking whether they've been done an injustice.
It's a bit like when the last government permitted a third choice for gender on certain forms. Intersex people are a tiny minority, but I think few would argue that it was wrong for this small gesture to be made.
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3.14159 
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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| What if the human race was almost totally wiped out and the only 2 survivors were siblings? |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| 3.14159 wrote: | | What if the human race was almost totally wiped out and the only 2 survivors were siblings? |
They can have two sons who will both go out into the wilderness and get themselves a wife.
eh............................ 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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No no no still no. Shouldn't even be a topic, it's just $£$%^%%$ immoral, £$%$ed up, wrong, disgusting, wrong wrong wrong. What could possibly be right about it? Seriously how low can you go?
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| That's cool. Great. Mmm. Ah. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| think positive wrote: | | ha, david is going to so love those labels!! |
We once bagged my mother mercilessly for calling someone "unfortunate looking" instead of just plain old "ugly" LOL.
We said we'd rather just be "ugly" than "unfortunate looking", which sounds far worse!
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Last edited by pietillidie on Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | 3.14159 wrote: | | What if the human race was almost totally wiped out and the only 2 survivors were siblings? |
They can have two sons who will both go out into the wilderness and get themselves a wife.
eh............................ |
I think there's another thread about that, Stui...
| 3.14159 wrote: | | What if the human race was almost totally wiped out and the only 2 survivors were siblings? |
Ask any Christian who believes in the literal truth of the Bible, and they'll tell you that that's how the human race made it to a third generation in the first place.
But then, Christians are pretty kinky types. Have you read the epilogue to the story of Lot and Sodom? And to think people let children read this stuff!
| think positive wrote: | | No no no still no. Shouldn't even be a topic, it's just $£$%^%%$ immoral, £$%$ed up, wrong, disgusting, wrong wrong wrong. What could possibly be right about it? Seriously how low can you go? |
How about first cousins? If it was all good with Einstein...
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