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The List Manager on Trade Radio

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doriswilgus 



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Location: the great southern land

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:39 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

So Barrett says again that we don't have much salary cap space.How ridiculous.We've just lost about half of our team in the last two years,and now Beams and Lumumba are going as well.Does this man know anything about football?
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Neil Appleby Taurus



Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:46 pm
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Are you kidding thompsoc? Trade Cloke? Yes I can just see our midget forward line or Blair, Kennedy and Elliott really taunting and bullying Hawthorn then.

We need to keep what little experience we have left and get some more in the draft, not give it away.

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Last edited by Neil Appleby on Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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thompsoc 



Joined: 21 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:34 pm
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Neil Appleby wrote:
Are you kidding thompsoc? Trade Cloke? yes I can just see our midget forward line or Blair, kennedy and Elliott really taunting and bullying Hawthorn then.

We need to keep what little experience we have left and get some more in the draft, not give it away.

As I said it is about winning a flag not about whether we are competitive next year.
I mean hawks lost buddy and still won a flag.
On paper it looks ridiculous but worth investigating.
Maybe throw in Watts plus pick 2 and 3.
Christ if we are rebuilding then lets go all the way.
Halfway gets you nowhere!

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watt price tully Scorpio



Joined: 15 May 2007


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:57 pm
Post subject: Re: The List Manager on Trade RadioReply with quote

Neil Appleby wrote:
Yesterday on Trade Radio, Terry Wallace and Damien Barrett spent quite a lot of time examining Collingwood. Plow (Wallace) basically said that he thought his prediction that Collingwood would fall before we could rise, was pretty well on the mark. Yep he was correct there. At this time last year Wallace in his List Manager Role gave Collingwood a bare pass but suggested the future was very bright. 2015 and beyond would be looking terrific for Collingwood. He wasn't alone, many other footy experts were saying the same thing. From memory, I think Mike Sheehan was the only person who wasn't so bullish on Collingwood's list.

One year on and Wallace has changed his tune. Yesterday he made the following points:

•Nathan Buckley is going to have a very difficult 18 months
•Players have left the club and they don't have the experience any more
•They enter season 2015 with Beams and Lumumba gone and Macaffer and Sharenberg out for the year.
•Its going to be a difficult time. They were brave to move senior players on but buying time at footy clubs is difficult especially at Collingwood.
•Broomhead, Langdon, Grundy, Kennedy, Sharenberg, Freeman, Adams: we really don't know where these players are. Potentially they could all be very good footy players but they may not be.
•Then we look at the second group: Witts, Fasolo, Karnezis, Williams and Seedsman. These players are in their early 20s and may well be good players but we don't know if they are going to be the next group of young stars. That's 12 players who are potentially really good players but we don't know if these blokes will develop.
•Then we look at the holes in the list: Reid, where does he play? Can they get him right? Is he forward or back? I see him as a back. Buckley says 'we have to get him right and work out the strategy for him.'
•Key positions: Frost is a really nice player 2nd or 3rd tall rather than number one. Brown and Keeffe we don't know if Brown's body will hold up. Keeffe is up and down. His ability to defend is OK but his ability to make decisions when he has the ball is shaky. Out of that lot, if Reid is not there the back line looks too shaky.
Forwards: Will White make it? Lynch is gone. They tried to get Clark so they know it's an issue with only Cloke the big tall.
•Swanny's just about cooked. He's been a star of the game, but he's just about cooked. He'll still kick goals and he's too good to fall right off the pace but he is no longer a target for opposition clubs. Clubs go after Pendlebury and now with Beams gone, they'll target Sidebottom. Sidey took big steps forward this year, but there is an enormous hole in the midfield when Sidey is targeted and with Beams, Ball & Lumumba gone. They can only replace these guys with kids and kids, (Adams, Kennedy) are up and down.
•Rucks: Witts and Grundy are babies and Clark was going to help here.
Now it is precarious about where they sit and the pressure is right on Nathan Buckley.
•Drafting: with pick 4 they need to on-trade for a senior player as they did with Jolly and Ball. Someone in the same age bracket as Sidebottom. This won't be easy to achieve. They need to fast track the youngsters but to do this you need a good skeleton, good support. They can't lose experience and then keep drafting kids because it will set them back and take even longer - this is what Melbourne did.
•Future: 2016 is the year I think the talent will blossom but they need bigger bodies like Karnezis. They are light on for size. They'll come out the other side, but it won't be 2015.
•Barrett suggests Collingwood doesn't have a lot of salary cap room. Three players taking a huge chunk: Pendles, Swan and Cloke.
Plow:The problem is they have recruited tiny blokes to help Cloke. Blair was already there and then they brought in Elliott and Kennedy types. They need size. Midfield size and key position size.
Barrett: Pert and Buckley were very bullish until mid 2014. Buckley even went so far on AFL 360 after the Queen's Birthday round, to suggest Collingwood not be dismissed in premiership calculations. Then the whole thing blew up.
Plow: Buckley has confidence in his young players to do the job, but he is more confident than I am. The big question is this, can the Collingwood faithful stick fat?
**I recorded the segment and much of the above is direct quote. Some has been summarised for brevity.

I don't disagree with much of this analysis, but I think a lot of experts are forgetting that Collingwood finished one game out of the eight and were in the eight all year until the final round. This despite the worst injury run in recent memory.

I don't believe the picture is as bad as it's being painted and that goes for many posters here in Nick's. I do think that 2015 will be the year that the coaching panel really starts to earn its money. They need to fast-track the young talent and bring in some experience before the preseason begins. This draft is the most important for years; we've gotta get it spot on.


Great detail & great write up NA. Thanks for that.

Wallace also said Bucks did too much last year (with respect of ridding players) & didn't think we'd be top 4 & would struggle for top 8 I recall on SEN radio preseason 2014.

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Deja Vu 



Joined: 20 Apr 2008


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:19 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

If Cloke has the old man's genes he'll play for another 7 years. He's already proved very durable.

Keep him

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melliot 



Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:32 pm
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I've said it elsewhere. Prefer we go to the draft with our good picks rather than trading for a mediocre player. If its a gun like Dangerfield, then fine, do it. But that's unlikely.

Draft in some young guns and we wait 3-4 years for them to blossom.

Pick 4 (Beams trade), 8 (Moore), 22 (Harry trade), 24 (Beams trade or hopefully better), 28. Possibly they all go +1 for Frawely compo.

That is 2 picks inside 10 and 5 that are sub 30 picks. We should end up with 4 if not 5 100+game players and should have at least 2 A Graders in there too.

I'm accepting of the pain for 2 years for this list to blossom into a contender. Bringing in an established player is not going to make us a contender next year. Better of getting games into more kids.
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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:35 pm
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Who would listen 2 those 2 Idiots?
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thompsoc 



Joined: 21 Sep 2009


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:38 pm
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Deja Vu wrote:
If Cloke has the old man's genes he'll play for another 7 years. He's already proved very durable.

Keep him

His old man was durable!
Hell, we have to do something drastic!

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RudeBoy 



Joined: 28 Nov 2005


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:40 pm
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Is it just me, or does Derek Hine always seem like he's just swallowed a bottle of valium?

I'm not criticising his job as our chief recruiter, but he never smiles or conveys much emotion at all. He seems a dour and unhappy chappy.
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jdpie1970 



Joined: 26 Sep 2014


PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:46 pm
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RudeBoy wrote:
Is it just me, or does Derek Hine always seem like he's just swallowed a bottle of valium?

I'm not criticising his job as our chief recruiter, but he never smiles or conveys much emotion at all. He seems a dour and unhappy chappy.


He spent a week reading these boards and decided a decade of effort was futile.
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September Zeros 



Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:48 pm
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melliot wrote:
I've said it elsewhere. Prefer we go to the draft with our good picks rather than trading for a mediocre player. If its a gun like Dangerfield, then fine, do it. But that's unlikely.

Draft in some young guns and we wait 3-4 years for them to blossom.

Pick 4 (Beams trade), 8 (Moore), 22 (Harry trade), 24 (Beams trade or hopefully better), 28. Possibly they all go +1 for Frawely compo.

That is 2 picks inside 10 and 5 that are sub 30 picks. We should end up with 4 if not 5 100+game players and should have at least 2 A Graders in there too.

I'm accepting of the pain for 2 years for this list to blossom into a contender. Bringing in an established player is not going to make us a contender next year. Better of getting games into more kids.


I really think your right on the money here.

Nothing's gone right. Be it the fault of the club, the coach, player attitude, player situations, plain old bad luck, or (as I suspect) a combination of all of the above causing the perfect cluster f%#& storm.

Things are pretty dismal right now. We can either bandaid it and make us look adequately competitive for 5 years ( bottom half of the ladder finishes maybe a finals appearance here and there), or we can rip the guts out of it, go for youth, suffer through 2015/16 and climb up from there.

It's sad that there doesn't seem to be any way out of some short term pain.

I can only hope I repost this at the end of 2015 and abuse myself for getting it so wrong.

Someone else said that this is the most important trade period we've seen for a long time for the pies. I agree. We simply must get this one right.

The club needs to come out roses on these trades and play hard ball. With everything that's gone wrong, we have to make this one go right.

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Last edited by September Zeros on Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:48 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

RudeBoy wrote:
Is it just me, or does Derek Hine always seem like he's just swallowed a bottle of valium?

I'm not criticising his job as our chief recruiter, but he never smiles or conveys much emotion at all. He seems a dour and unhappy chappy.


He want to give nothing away does Hine.

He does not want to other teams to know what he is thinking

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35forever 

"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"


Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:56 pm
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Oh Christ! I can't believe how many people are happy to be the leagues whipping boy for a couple of years when we were the best side in the game just 3 fu**ing years ago!!!

My prediction at season's end was that we'd be 10th-12th in 2015, just a couple of weeks later that's looking ridiculously bullish! These people have utterly dismantled the best Collingwood side in 80 years and you lot are gonna let them get away with it provided we're competitive again around the turn of next decade!!! Short term pain! Fu^k off! It's been 50 years of pain and all of it caused by idiots in suits! I can't believe how short your memories are! THINK about our 2011 team! It isn't ancient history! The biggest problem Buckley had in his first year was what to do with all the talent, we actually had too much!
We should be celebrating our record-breaking 5th flag right now and instead we're discussing which type of player to get with our early picks to make us competitive in 2018!
Imagine how we'd be now with Pendles, Beamer, Daisy, Heater, Cloke Swan, Ball, Blair, Steelo, Harry O, Caff, Wellingham, Dawes, Reid, Elliot and Fasolo at their best? Add to that the kids Hine would've provided who would be working their arses off trying to break into that squad! This is the side that thumped Port by 70 odd in round one. At half time we were 13.3! We only kicked that score as a total three times this year, and we were kicking straight! A week later we flogged North by even more, we were unbackable for the flag, we won a dozen games by more than 50 points and two by over a hundred. This was just 3 years ago!!!!!

And you're happy with being competitive in a few years time?!?! No wonder we go through so much bloody misery, I think most Collingwood supporters like it! In 2012 we should have been BETTER than we were in 2011, and THAT is what we were told to expect, no one talked of re-builds, the footy media were shitting themselves, all the Collingwood haters were miserable! No one could see how we could fail to win more flags. That side would wipe the floor with this years grand finalists, with that side intact we'd be developing new players and new methods to stay a step ahead, Swan would have a second Brownlow and Pendles would've joined him. Instead our lone Brownlow medallist was so pissed off at what we've done he barely raised a whimper after finishing 3rd in the Charlie last year, and he wasn't the only one. All this because we had to fix what wasn't broken! All this because sticking to a contract was more important than success, All this because ONE man put himself ahead of the club and threatened to walk to North if he didn't get the gig he wanted. Every time a player here has talked of 'walking' everyone jumps on him and says "Fine! Piss off then!"
Imagine if we'd done that, and North got Buckley?
Would North have made the prelims this year? Come on! Would they? I know we would have!

Stop trying so damn hard to forget success and expect failure! You WILL get it, don't worry!

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Lazza 



Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:59 pm
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RudeBoy wrote:
Is it just me, or does Derek Hine always seem like he's just swallowed a bottle of valium?

I'm not criticising his job as our chief recruiter, but he never smiles or conveys much emotion at all. He seems a dour and unhappy chappy.


Definition of being poker faced RB.

That is part of the job description mate.

Don't let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.... Rolling Eyes
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Dave The Man Scorpio



Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:00 pm
Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^
So we are going to have a very high draft pick in the 2015 Draft then?

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