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KenH Gemini



Joined: 24 Jan 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 9:46 pm
Post subject: What to do?Reply with quote

I am a small business owner, I put on a person who was out of work on a full time position 2 years ago ( a relative I didn't have have enough hours of work to give him) I paid him 40 hours a week for 1 and 1/2 years average of probably 28 hours work a week. About 6 months ago business had picked up and offered him a pay rise and he said no as it would affect his benefits from the government. So I said okay, now 6 months later he asks for a pay rise because his other part time work earned him too much and he will now lose the benefits he had. Should I now give him an increase or not?
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Nick - Pie Man 



Joined: 04 Aug 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:11 pm
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I would look at it on its merits. Does he deserve one? You seemed to think so six months ago.

His benefits aren't really your issue.

But it is a bit odd, offering a pay increase and having that offer rejected. Seriously?
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Mugwump 



Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:15 pm
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^ agreed, if he was worth a pay rise then, why not now ?

Whether a benefits system which provides a disincentive to pay rises (and the associated tax revenue) is rational is another question....

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KenH Gemini



Joined: 24 Jan 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:18 pm
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Nick - Pie Man wrote:
I would look at it on its merits. Does he deserve one? You seemed to think so six months ago.

His benefits aren't really your issue.

But it is a bit odd, offering a pay increase and having that offer rejected. Seriously?


I have no concern in giving him a pay increase but pisses me off that he was trying to get more out of the system that he probably deserved considering that I have been paying him about 12 hours a week for than he worked and even now between 8-10 hours more a week. I haven't deliberately tried to get more money out of the system ever, even on my tax return. ( maybe I am stupid!)

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KenH Gemini



Joined: 24 Jan 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:20 pm
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By the way my wife and I have already given him a pay rise but should we have?
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:26 pm
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I've never understood the concept of turning down extra work because it might affect government benefits. Isn't the basic principle of our welfare system that you're always better off financially working as opposed to not working? If not, you'd think that'd be a loophole they'd have changed by now.

As for this situation, no idea! I guess it's really your call as a small-business owner. If you think his work warranted the rise and your business can afford it, then I don't think you did the wrong thing. How he chooses to report it is on his conscience.

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KenH Gemini



Joined: 24 Jan 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:44 pm
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David wrote:
I've never understood the concept of turning down extra work because it might affect government benefits. Isn't the basic principle of our welfare system that you're always better off financially working as opposed to not working? If not, you'd think that'd be a loophole they'd have changed by now.

As for this situation, no idea! I guess it's really your call as a small-business owner. If you think his work warranted the rise and your business can afford it, then I don't think you did the wrong thing. How he chooses to report it is on his conscience.


It is not extra work David we have always given him 40 hours payed work even when he worked 20 hours I didn't want to give him less because I wanted him to be available when needed. I am not sure how they got the benefits in the first place. We probably could have received some benefits from putting him on but didn't try as he was unemployed and over 55. It just annoys me that people try to get as much out of the government as they can and then complain when there isn't enough to help others when they need it. I am positive that they did not need any hand outs from the government.

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:54 pm
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There is no way he'd be eligible for any benefits if he was properly declaring 80 hours of work per fortnight as the money declared would reduce his payment to zero.

Was he paid cash in hand or something?

I don't understand anyway why or how you could afford to pay him for 40 hours work when he was only doing 28 hours?

Everyone should be so lucky.

Why offer him a pay rise in the first place when he's been getting money from you he hasn't earnt?

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KenH Gemini



Joined: 24 Jan 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:07 pm
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swoop42 wrote:
There is no way he'd be eligible for any benefits if he was properly declaring 80 hours of work per fortnight as the money declared would reduce his payment to zero.

Was he paid cash in hand or something?

I don't understand anyway why or how you could afford to pay him for 40 hours work when he was only doing 28 hours?

Everyone should be so lucky.

Why offer him a pay rise in the first place when he's been getting money from you he hasn't earnt?


I am not sure either we payed him not high wages (20.50 an hour) so maybe that entitled him to some benefits, his wife was not working?
We were put in a position that I couldn't purchase another area unless I put on another worker and it took a couple of years to build enough work to keep both of us busy it was probably a bad business decision by me! He is a great worker and real nice fella he is also a relative of my wife but sometimes I feel like I get a bit used.

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Morrigu Capricorn



Joined: 11 Aug 2001


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:08 pm
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Agree Ken - sometimes I think people who could actually do more to sustain themselves but instead expect or try to maximise what they get in the way of " benefits" just don't understand ( or don't care ) that it is the taxpayers who fund it - not the " government" - some folk seem to have this weird sense of entitlement and desire to get what they think they are entitled to when they just are clearly not - beyond me!

Anyway - is he a good worker? - would he be difficult to replace? is it worth the angst trying to find a replacement?

If you answer Yes Yes No - then give him the raise - if it works for you financially and from a business perspective it is probably worth the annoyance that his attitude causes you.

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KenH Gemini



Joined: 24 Jan 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:21 pm
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Morrigu, it is probably more a disappointment than anything and I should not have raised this on here. He is a great worker and I wouldn't try to replace him. It just annoys me to see people that I know who try to take advantage of anything that they can when they really don't need to.
I must admit I am not real good at this business thing, but we are getting there!

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sixpoints 



Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:23 pm
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I don't know how small your small business actually is.
If you have a decent number of employees then I really think you need to consider the collective culture/values of the business above this one persons requests.
Paying an employee for 40 hours although they only work 28.
Offering pay rises that are declined due to external factors and now that those factors no longer occur, the business is asked again for the previously declined increase.
This sort of nonsense can tear an organization apart.
Are these deals offered to all your employees?
Equity, transparency, fairness, accountability, trust....Not reading those key values being applied or followed.
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partypie 



Joined: 01 Oct 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:33 pm
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In answer to David, sometimes people want to qualify for the healthcare card if they have a disability or medical issue. For example, amputees have to pay full price for prosthetics if they don't have the card. They are very expensive and most people can't afford them on wages.
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David Libra

I dare you to try


Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda

PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:38 pm
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^ Ah, I see PP. Having a near 34-week pregnant girlfriend, I empathise with that completely. Medicine can be pretty damn expensive.
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KenH Gemini



Joined: 24 Jan 2010


PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:40 pm
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He is the only employee, I am not out to make a fortune in this I want to be able to pay my debts and living expenses and also try to make sure that he can live on what i pay him. I also told him that I would look after him and not work him too hard and burn him out. He works now on average about 35 hours a week and we are happy with that. When I put on another worker I will do my best to accommodate their needs. I have worked for good bosses and bad bosses and I know that I worked harder and smarter for the good bosses and I want to be known as a good employer.
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