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The Prototype
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003 Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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The_Staunton
Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Location: Hobart
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jackcass wrote: | The_Staunton wrote: | jackcass wrote: | RudeBoy wrote: | If Freeman and Scharenberg eventually deliver the goods, we may all be praising our recruiters. Truth is, we won't know for 2 more years.
However, one thing is beyond dispute, our recruiting of recycled players - apart from Jolly, Ball and Leigh Brown - has been shocking. This is an area our club needs to lift its game dramatically if we are to regain a top 4 berth any time soon. |
Don't see either Jolly or Ball as "recycled" players in the traditional sense. Both at or need the pointy end of elite AFL talent when recruited.
I do agree that there are only short term limited gains drafting/trading guys like Russell, Young, Lynch, and White. Players of their age rarely change their output significantly. Understand why the club opts for these bargain basement types but personally I'd prefer to go to the draft. |
I say recycled players as a bit of a catch all phrase, meaning anyone from another club brought it.
Apart from those 3 we've been a disaster at it in my lifetime
We used to have a terrible reputation at the trade table balanced out with somewhat of a reluctance from other clubs to deal with us.
It's been a disaster this "sticking plaster" approach in the last few years - we've got nothing of value out of our pick ups (particularly Russell). Time to pick things up in that regard. |
We've actually gotten what we've paid for. There's been a clear focus over the last few years on utilising high draft picks which hasn't left anything to use at the trade table. The guys we have bought in have cost us next to nothing and were essentially surplus at their original clubs. |
I just wonder if we could improve this though - actually I know we could.
Gunston, Matty White, Schulz for instance
They didn't cost much if anything
I just wonder why when I genuinely thought our free agency pick ups would be excellent they've been so genuinely poor.
Chicken or egg - are we bad at picking up recycled players or do they come in to us and our system means they struggle? Does a Ted Richards exceed because at Essendon he wasn't developed properly or are Sydney just better at finding those type of players? _________________ We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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The_Staunton
Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Location: Hobart
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John Wren wrote: | jackcass wrote: | Museman wrote: | jackcass wrote: | We've actually gotten what we've paid for. There's been a clear focus over the last few years on utilising high draft picks which hasn't left anything to use at the trade table. The guys we have bought in have cost us next to nothing. |
And provided a similar output....
A futile exercise. |
What I said. The flip side of the arguement is that we've got so many kids you need some senior guys around to help them find their feet. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory either but all clubs do it, even GWS and GCS have added a few of these guys. |
some of these guys we have picked up have had a greater off field value than what we have or haven't seen onfield. young and lynch can be knocked by supporters but both did come from successful environments. |
I'd probably give you that for Hudson at least. He was picked up for a mentor role as much as anything - so that's fair.
I just think we could do better in this area. Mind - Lynch looked great at training and then suddenly was a debacle as soon as he played. I'm sure the club thought they'd picked up a weapon and then saw he couldn't kick from 30m...I understand sometimes someones body will give out on them. Just wouldn't mind, let's say, a Chapman or a Cross who can still play for a year or two rather than Young or Russell bumbling through a season. Then you get the best of both worlds. _________________ We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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The_Staunton wrote: | John Wren wrote: | jackcass wrote: | Museman wrote: | jackcass wrote: | We've actually gotten what we've paid for. There's been a clear focus over the last few years on utilising high draft picks which hasn't left anything to use at the trade table. The guys we have bought in have cost us next to nothing. |
And provided a similar output....
A futile exercise. |
What I said. The flip side of the arguement is that we've got so many kids you need some senior guys around to help them find their feet. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory either but all clubs do it, even GWS and GCS have added a few of these guys. |
some of these guys we have picked up have had a greater off field value than what we have or haven't seen onfield. young and lynch can be knocked by supporters but both did come from successful environments. |
I'd probably give you that for Hudson at least. He was picked up for a mentor role as much as anything - so that's fair.
I just think we could do better in this area. Mind - Lynch looked great at training and then suddenly was a debacle as soon as he played. I'm sure the club thought they'd picked up a weapon and then saw he couldn't kick from 30m...I understand sometimes someones body will give out on them. Just wouldn't mind, let's say, a Chapman or a Cross who can still play for a year or two rather than Young or Russell bumbling through a season. Then you get the best of both worlds. |
obviously things didn't quite work out for lynch or the club but he was mighty with our young forwards especially when he was injured. _________________ Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005 Location: Bendigo
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John Wren wrote: | The_Staunton wrote: | John Wren wrote: | some of these guys we have picked up have had a greater off field value than what we have or haven't seen onfield. young and lynch can be knocked by supporters but both did come from successful environments. |
I'd probably give you that for Hudson at least. He was picked up for a mentor role as much as anything - so that's fair.
I just think we could do better in this area. Mind - Lynch looked great at training and then suddenly was a debacle as soon as he played. I'm sure the club thought they'd picked up a weapon and then saw he couldn't kick from 30m...I understand sometimes someones body will give out on them. Just wouldn't mind, let's say, a Chapman or a Cross who can still play for a year or two rather than Young or Russell bumbling through a season. Then you get the best of both worlds. |
obviously things didn't quite work out for lynch or the club but he was mighty with our young forwards especially when he was injured. |
I wasn't a fan of recruiting Lynch but his efforts in 2013 actually convinced me otherwise. Battled manfully despite his injuries. JW, you'd see more of his work with the kids than most of us but I don't doubt how good he's been with them, even at VFL level. |
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magirl
Joined: 18 Aug 2007 Location: Tura Beach NSW
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I have not read the thread. Just want to say. A couple of years ago I remember thinking poor Port Adelaide. No one wants to play there. Look at them now. On the cusp. Don't despair my friends. Every hardship opens new doors. Lets look to the future and hope that it will bring new benefits to that black and white team we all love _________________ Side by Side |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010 Location: Benalla
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magirl wrote: | I have not read the thread. Just want to say. A couple of years ago I remember thinking poor Port Adelaide. No one wants to play there. Look at them now. On the cusp. Don't despair my friends. Every hardship opens new doors. Lets look to the future and hope that it will bring new benefits to that black and white team we all love |
Ports fortunes changed when they riddled themselves of their muppet coach, if Primus was in charge today they wouldn't have made finals IMO.
Coach is the backbone on the list. _________________ Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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I agree - some perspective is needed.
Here is my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - A
Media - A
Picking up players - C (might be a B when young guys develop)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - D
Luck - E
Bux for me has done well with moving players on up to now... Beams and H would be the exception - given their value to the list now and years to come. The other moves he has made moving players on have been good ones - SHaw for Adams will pay big time next year and beyond.
Although again who we recruit and select is not totally in his control we have made some good quality acquisitions - particularly the young guys. Proof will be there in a few years time. Some of he senior guys have not worked out - Russell, Young Lynch and White have been poor - that is a fail with a glimmer from White - hopefully we can do better with our senior pick-ups for 2015.
Gameday moves and overall gameplan from Bux is a worry. - We are playing a similar brand to the top teams in patches with our intensity and handballs in traffic etc - however we don't seem to have the players in the right places or our general structures seem weak - highlighted when we kick-out or other teams go coast to coast etc from their kick-outs.
Bux likes process and may lack the confidence to back his gut feel - or intuition during games - but we could help that by building more versatility in the team. Clarkson is touted as a genius when switches players during games - but he has players who are versatile - that is the process that Bux needs to consider and build also. Faz down back was a good move for several reasons - Goldy on a Key Forward was a great move - but we need to be making these moves to initiate an advantage rather than responding to injury issues or a crisis.
With some much overdue luck I am hopeful Bux will come back strong in 2015. With his young team rising in 2015 to play finals again and looking like a serious contender for 2016 I think Bux will be able to show us supporters his vision. _________________ Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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The_Staunton
Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Location: Hobart
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yin-YANG wrote: | I agree - some perspective is needed.
Here is my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - A
Media - A
Picking up players - C (might be a B when young guys develop)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - D
Luck - E
Bux for me has done well with moving players on up to now... Beams and H would be the exception - given their value to the list now and years to come. The other moves he has made moving players on have been good ones - SHaw for Adams will pay big time next year and beyond.
Although again who we recruit and select is not totally in his control we have made some good quality acquisitions - particularly the young guys. Proof will be there in a few years time. Some of he senior guys have not worked out - Russell, Young Lynch and White have been poor - that is a fail with a glimmer from White - hopefully we can do better with our senior pick-ups for 2015.
Gameday moves and overall gameplan from Bux is a worry. - We are playing a similar brand to the top teams in patches with our intensity and handballs in traffic etc - however we don't seem to have the players in the right places or our general structures seem weak - highlighted when we kick-out or other teams go coast to coast etc from their kick-outs.
Bux likes process and may lack the confidence to back his gut feel - or intuition during games - but we could help that by building more versatility in the team. Clarkson is touted as a genius when switches players during games - but he has players who are versatile - that is the process that Bux needs to consider and build also. Faz down back was a good move for several reasons - Goldy on a Key Forward was a great move - but we need to be making these moves to initiate an advantage rather than responding to injury issues or a crisis.
With some much overdue luck I am hopeful Bux will come back strong in 2015. With his young team rising in 2015 to play finals again and looking like a serious contender for 2016 I think Bux will be able to show us supporters his vision. |
Disagree on Taylor Adams - I think people can justify flicking Shaw for "culture" reasons and fairs fair, but flicking a popular player has been detrimental to morale (I'm happy to say people are using it is an excuse to get out of there but still) as cited by Beams manager.
Plus as I've said, I think Adams is a disaster when it comes to decision making - but we'll see.
My concern as I've said is we keep making the same mistakes time and time again and keep losing the same way especially to Hawthorn. We'll see I guess... _________________ We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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King Malta
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008 Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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The_Staunton wrote: | yin-YANG wrote: | I agree - some perspective is needed.
Here is my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - A
Media - A
Picking up players - C (might be a B when young guys develop)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - D
Luck - E
Bux for me has done well with moving players on up to now... Beams and H would be the exception - given their value to the list now and years to come. The other moves he has made moving players on have been good ones - SHaw for Adams will pay big time next year and beyond.
Although again who we recruit and select is not totally in his control we have made some good quality acquisitions - particularly the young guys. Proof will be there in a few years time. Some of he senior guys have not worked out - Russell, Young Lynch and White have been poor - that is a fail with a glimmer from White - hopefully we can do better with our senior pick-ups for 2015.
Gameday moves and overall gameplan from Bux is a worry. - We are playing a similar brand to the top teams in patches with our intensity and handballs in traffic etc - however we don't seem to have the players in the right places or our general structures seem weak - highlighted when we kick-out or other teams go coast to coast etc from their kick-outs.
Bux likes process and may lack the confidence to back his gut feel - or intuition during games - but we could help that by building more versatility in the team. Clarkson is touted as a genius when switches players during games - but he has players who are versatile - that is the process that Bux needs to consider and build also. Faz down back was a good move for several reasons - Goldy on a Key Forward was a great move - but we need to be making these moves to initiate an advantage rather than responding to injury issues or a crisis.
With some much overdue luck I am hopeful Bux will come back strong in 2015. With his young team rising in 2015 to play finals again and looking like a serious contender for 2016 I think Bux will be able to show us supporters his vision. |
Disagree on Taylor Adams - I think people can justify damn Shaw for "culture" reasons and fairs fair, but damn a popular player has been detrimental to morale (I'm happy to say people are using it is an excuse to get out of there but still) as cited by Beams manager.
Plus as I've said, I think Adams is a disaster when it comes to decision making - but we'll see.
My concern as I've said is we keep making the same mistakes time and time again and keep losing the same way especially to Hawthorn. We'll see I guess... |
Taylor Adams will be an absolute gun player for us, I'm surer of that than I am of the prospects of any young player on this list.
Young players can be prone to bad decision making, comes with the territory (not that his decision making is 'disastrous' as you make out anyway). Don't forget that the GWS apparently rated him highly enough to earmark him as a future captain too. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Elwood
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Like the format above so here's my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - D
Media - A
Picking up players - B (I imagine Hine has more say than Bucks on this one)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - A
Luck - E |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | Like the format above so here's my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - D
Media - A
Picking up players - B (I imagine Hine has more say than Bucks on this one)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - A
Luck - E |
Please explain? |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007 Location: Elwood
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Museman wrote: | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | Like the format above so here's my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - D
Media - A
Picking up players - B (I imagine Hine has more say than Bucks on this one)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - A
Luck - E |
Please explain? |
Pure observation and opinion comparing Bucks to Malthouse, who I thought was a poor match day coach. However I think Malthouse has the much better game plan. |
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The_Staunton
Joined: 30 Jul 2007 Location: Hobart
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King Malta wrote: | The_Staunton wrote: | yin-YANG wrote: | I agree - some perspective is needed.
Here is my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - A
Media - A
Picking up players - C (might be a B when young guys develop)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - D
Luck - E
Bux for me has done well with moving players on up to now... Beams and H would be the exception - given their value to the list now and years to come. The other moves he has made moving players on have been good ones - SHaw for Adams will pay big time next year and beyond.
Although again who we recruit and select is not totally in his control we have made some good quality acquisitions - particularly the young guys. Proof will be there in a few years time. Some of he senior guys have not worked out - Russell, Young Lynch and White have been poor - that is a fail with a glimmer from White - hopefully we can do better with our senior pick-ups for 2015.
Gameday moves and overall gameplan from Bux is a worry. - We are playing a similar brand to the top teams in patches with our intensity and handballs in traffic etc - however we don't seem to have the players in the right places or our general structures seem weak - highlighted when we kick-out or other teams go coast to coast etc from their kick-outs.
Bux likes process and may lack the confidence to back his gut feel - or intuition during games - but we could help that by building more versatility in the team. Clarkson is touted as a genius when switches players during games - but he has players who are versatile - that is the process that Bux needs to consider and build also. Faz down back was a good move for several reasons - Goldy on a Key Forward was a great move - but we need to be making these moves to initiate an advantage rather than responding to injury issues or a crisis.
With some much overdue luck I am hopeful Bux will come back strong in 2015. With his young team rising in 2015 to play finals again and looking like a serious contender for 2016 I think Bux will be able to show us supporters his vision. |
Disagree on Taylor Adams - I think people can justify damn Shaw for "culture" reasons and fairs fair, but damn a popular player has been detrimental to morale (I'm happy to say people are using it is an excuse to get out of there but still) as cited by Beams manager.
Plus as I've said, I think Adams is a disaster when it comes to decision making - but we'll see.
My concern as I've said is we keep making the same mistakes time and time again and keep losing the same way especially to Hawthorn. We'll see I guess... |
Taylor Adams will be an absolute gun player for us, I'm surer of that than I am of the prospects of any young player on this list.
Young players can be prone to bad decision making, comes with the territory (not that his decision making is 'disastrous' as you make out anyway). Don't forget that the GWS apparently rated him highly enough to earmark him as a future captain too. |
I'm not making him the scapegoat a lot of people do, but I think his decision making is really bad. Most of his games were plagued by poor disposal and some really poor decision making. I think you can pick up the kicking, but decision making under pressure is hard to pick up as a trait.
On the other hand, his last game before his finger injury was very impressive, lest I sound constantly negative. Just would rather have Heater personally. _________________ We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
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BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | Museman wrote: | BucksIsFutureCoach wrote: | Like the format above so here's my report card for our coach...
Moving players on - D
Media - A
Picking up players - B (I imagine Hine has more say than Bucks on this one)
Gameplan - C
Gameday - A
Luck - E |
Please explain? |
Pure observation and opinion comparing Bucks to Malthouse, who I thought was a poor match day coach. However I think Malthouse has the much better game plan. |
Fair enough, I just don't see it. |
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