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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Wilko wrote: | Personally I'm in the glass half full with Bucks but I too have been critical of the game day moves at times
I think we should all agree to disagree that for better or worse 1 more year like this one then change will be inevitable
This thread is getting a little tired |
When was this exactly? |
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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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Drivel most of this thread. I'll take a flag and 8 successive finals series over about 10 other clubs records in the last decade. Most of you want change for change sake. There is nothing wrong at our club which sounds like 'head in the sand' stuff but only one club can win the flag each year and the system is designed to share it around. Our board, systems and admin would be the envy of most other clubs. The fact is most of you have no idea what's going on. Have your little rants and vote with your feet at the AGM if you don't like things but if you're in the minority (which you clearly are) suck it up and throw your support behind those elected and appointed to run the club.
_________________
'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
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| Post subject: Re: Yes | |
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | mudlark wrote: | | Hiss wrote: | | I don't mind people disagreeing with my views ! Our great club was famous for its disagreements, passion and the resultant success that from that! The modern Collingwood is a micro controlled environment where difference points of view are not welcome ! These are the seeds of long term failure! Posters on here that want to crush any view that differs with theirs are ordinarily lowly achievers in their own lives lacking much intellect! Backward types who can't comprehend another point of view! I look to successful clubs like Hawthorn and more recently Port Adelaide and note their Presidents don't hang around forever! New leadership brings a new fresh perspective and should be demanded at our Club! As for reporting differing posts to the mods on here . Well that is the sort of stuff I'd expect of a spoilt selfish immature school girl! How pathetic |
Hiss. You are indeed an enigma.Most times you talk utter shite,like John Howard and the mad monk wanting to take us back to the days of yore and yet sometimes you make clever and well thought out observations and I agree with you.
We all know you love Hawthorn and you realistically and practically,barrack for them,but one has to wonder about how many more premierships Collingwood should have won,but for the pathetic and mind boggling umpiring ,we,as a club, have to endure.And I would say,that if Collingwood was allowed as much latitude as Hawthorn were yesterday,we would be unbeatable.NOT!!!that the umpiring had ANYTHING to do with yesterdays result,but the "Unsociable" Hawks have a rule book for themselves.
But I digress. If you care to cast your narrow mind back to 2002, you will probably recall,deep into the final quarter,we were a few points up ,the ball was kicked towards Chris Tarrrant and,20 meters from goal was 'MONSTERED" by Daryl White and SHOULD have been paid any one of 3 free kicks he gave away in that contest,which 'MAY" have put us 2 kicks in front with a couple of mins to play,but a free kick to Lynch less than a minute later,for WHAT??? No one still knows and the rest is history.
OR,fast forward to 2011 and just before 1/2 time,with 1 min to go,Dane Swan took a mark on the half back flank,at least the whole WORLD thought he took the mark ,all EXCEPT one umpire.At that time we were cruising at 4 1/2 goals up with perhaps a chance to kick one more before 1/2 time.Instead Geelong kicked 2 in a minute and once again,the rest is history.
How would YOU and the rest of the Saddies have been thinking if a Hawthorn style of umpiring was applied to US on those 2 days.
Just saying. |
Don't forget that goal by Rocca that was a goal but then wasn't - you speak the truth Mudlark!! |
All sides get rough umpiring. If you get to a Grand Final then obviously the umpiring stakes will be higher. The way to deal with poor umpiring remains the same in any football match - under 17 or AFL Grand Final - get ahead and stay ahead and what the umpires do then doesn't matter. The real fault in those games was that we didnt take our goal chances when we had them, so that possibily and only possibly poor umpiring may have affected the result. I tend to blame our poor play for the losses however. That is the real reason. I don't go for hysterics about umpire bias or umpiring costing us games. what costs us games is our own poor play and nothing else. Blaming umpires is just using an external locus of control rather than facing up to the truth that, in those grand finals we lost, we just were not good enough to win them.
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"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad". |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Post subject: Re: Yes | |
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| rocketronnie wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | mudlark wrote: | | Hiss wrote: | | I don't mind people disagreeing with my views ! Our great club was famous for its disagreements, passion and the resultant success that from that! The modern Collingwood is a micro controlled environment where difference points of view are not welcome ! These are the seeds of long term failure! Posters on here that want to crush any view that differs with theirs are ordinarily lowly achievers in their own lives lacking much intellect! Backward types who can't comprehend another point of view! I look to successful clubs like Hawthorn and more recently Port Adelaide and note their Presidents don't hang around forever! New leadership brings a new fresh perspective and should be demanded at our Club! As for reporting differing posts to the mods on here . Well that is the sort of stuff I'd expect of a spoilt selfish immature school girl! How pathetic |
Hiss. You are indeed an enigma.Most times you talk utter shite,like John Howard and the mad monk wanting to take us back to the days of yore and yet sometimes you make clever and well thought out observations and I agree with you.
We all know you love Hawthorn and you realistically and practically,barrack for them,but one has to wonder about how many more premierships Collingwood should have won,but for the pathetic and mind boggling umpiring ,we,as a club, have to endure.And I would say,that if Collingwood was allowed as much latitude as Hawthorn were yesterday,we would be unbeatable.NOT!!!that the umpiring had ANYTHING to do with yesterdays result,but the "Unsociable" Hawks have a rule book for themselves.
But I digress. If you care to cast your narrow mind back to 2002, you will probably recall,deep into the final quarter,we were a few points up ,the ball was kicked towards Chris Tarrrant and,20 meters from goal was 'MONSTERED" by Daryl White and SHOULD have been paid any one of 3 free kicks he gave away in that contest,which 'MAY" have put us 2 kicks in front with a couple of mins to play,but a free kick to Lynch less than a minute later,for WHAT??? No one still knows and the rest is history.
OR,fast forward to 2011 and just before 1/2 time,with 1 min to go,Dane Swan took a mark on the half back flank,at least the whole WORLD thought he took the mark ,all EXCEPT one umpire.At that time we were cruising at 4 1/2 goals up with perhaps a chance to kick one more before 1/2 time.Instead Geelong kicked 2 in a minute and once again,the rest is history.
How would YOU and the rest of the Saddies have been thinking if a Hawthorn style of umpiring was applied to US on those 2 days.
Just saying. |
Don't forget that goal by Rocca that was a goal but then wasn't - you speak the truth Mudlark!! |
All sides get rough umpiring. If you get to a Grand Final then obviously the umpiring stakes will be higher. The way to deal with poor umpiring remains the same in any football match - under 17 or AFL Grand Final - get ahead and stay ahead and what the umpires do then doesn't matter. The real fault in those games was that we didnt take our goal chances when we had them, so that possibily and only possibly poor umpiring may have affected the result. I tend to blame our poor play for the losses however. That is the real reason. I don't go for hysterics about umpire bias or umpiring costing us games. what costs us games is our own poor play and nothing else. Blaming umpires is just using an external locus of control rather than facing up to the truth that, in those grand finals we lost, we just were not good enough to win them. |
Rocket I tend to agree - it's important that when we make Gf's we leave nothing behind... even if we get a few people suspended for the next season.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | There's no point trying to persuade some of the Buckley haters to be more balanced in their posterings. It's like trying to persuade Jihadist Islamo-Fascists to be more rational and considerate of other peoples viewpoints. They are on a personal crusade. It's not about Bucks, it's about them. It's really a pathetic cry of 'look at me, look at me, I'm smarter than all of you'. It's a bit funny really, because it's so predictable. |
The stats don't lie, more and more fans are coming over to the "perceptive fellow" every day, something stinks at our club and the odour can be traced back to the time Buckley took over, and the smell continues to get stronger.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Defender wrote: | Every team gets injuries, but it's the amount of soft tissue injuries that's the worry, Remember Butterfant said Buckley wouldn't listen to him about training loads, that's why he left.
Then we add the almost bizarre selections and the blatant on field strategy mistakes.
You can hold any opinion you like, but you're a complete muppet if you think Buckley should be immune from criticism. |
Please provide a source to this alleged comment |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| The_Staunton wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
Our top 7 disposal winners that night - 2 are left (Swan and Pendles)
Their top 7 disposal winners that night - 7 are left, 6 just won a flag
Interesting point to start |
And who are the other 5? |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Post subject: Re: Yes | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | I don't mind people disagreeing with my views ! Our great club was famous for its disagreements, passion and the resultant success that from that! The modern Collingwood is a micro controlled environment where difference points of view are not welcome ! These are the seeds of long term failure! Posters on here that want to crush any view that differs with theirs are ordinarily lowly achievers in their own lives lacking much intellect! Backward types who can't comprehend another point of view! I look to successful clubs like Hawthorn and more recently Port Adelaide and note their Presidents don't hang around forever! New leadership brings a new fresh perspective and should be demanded at our Club! As for reporting differing posts to the mods on here . Well that is the sort of stuff I'd expect of a spoilt selfish immature school girl! How pathetic |
And you know this because.... |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| jackcass wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
Our top 7 disposal winners that night - 2 are left (Swan and Pendles)
Their top 7 disposal winners that night - 7 are left, 6 just won a flag
Interesting point to start |
And who are the other 5? |
Ball, Maxwell, Davis, Thomas and Shaw (equal 7th with Cloke). If Lumumba and Beams leave, we'll only have 7 from the entire 22 left on the list. For whatever that's worth.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | So lets look into the crystal ball and imagine a hypothetical scenario.
We are half way through 2015 and are 3-8, having once again been made to look like ragdolls against the likes of the Hawks and such. It becomes obvious Bucks is going no where and is not the future of our club, so Eddie finally relents and pulls the plug.
Where do we go from there - who becomes our target for rebuilding our club.
Now lets try to be serious "perceptive fellow" and Sunshine and Lollipops people, this is a very real possibility and it pays to have an alternative plan and be prudent enough to prepare for the worst case scenario - which this obviously is. |
Get a Board that is not beholden to any one group within the collingwood family.
the only family we appear to be beholden to is the millane family for obvious reasons.
Second non voting members who have had success at other clubs - dare I say it people like Jeff K.
do you even know who is on the current board?
Get a Board who will not allow any President to run the show!
how do you sheet the blame at eddie's feet? if you really want, point the finger at the voting members who allow eddie to return uncontested.
Get a Board that has only collingwood at its heart.
if this is not the case, who's interest do they have at heart?
Do not give free kicks to sides like Melbourne ( queens birthday freebie )
now, this shows you truly do not understand that machinations of footy politics.
Get a board that is farken ruthless in pursuit of winning.
moving malthouse on wasn't a ruthless act?
This would be a start!!!!! |
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In hindsight, we should have held onto Malthouse for another year or two (regardless of what anyone thinks, it almost certainly cost us the 2011 flag)but what's done is done.
Eddie is not the problem, unless he has blind faith in Bucks and is not willing to admit that maybe he got it wrong - this year will be crunch time for both of them as we all know - regardless of injuries or youth. |
Oh FFS, how often do we need to dredge up these mindless inaccuracies!
Malthouse was contracted to the club beyond 2011 yet he decided not to honor the contract and to add salt to the wounds, allowed his arrogance to cost us the 2011 GF. Move on! |
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The_Staunton 
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: Hobart
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| jackcass wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
Our top 7 disposal winners that night - 2 are left (Swan and Pendles)
Their top 7 disposal winners that night - 7 are left, 6 just won a flag
Interesting point to start |
And who are the other 5? |
Ball, Davis, Thomas, Maxwell and Shaw (joint with Trav)
Ben Johnson was next with 17 (equal with Rusty) and Harry O after that
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2011/041020110923.html
Swan, Pendlebury, Cloke, Sidebottom, Blair, Reid and Toovey are the only players from that 22 guaranteed to be there next year
Beams and Harry tbd
Ball, Davis, Thomas, Maxwell, Shaw, Johnson, Wellingham, Krakouer, Jolly, Tarrant, Dawes, Leigh Brown and Dids all gone
Hawthorn have kept: Birchall, Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Puopolo, Delicious, Schoenmakers, Sewell, Shiels, Smith, Stratton, Suckling and Whitecross (16 of 22)
Deperted: Bailey, Bateman, Franklin, Guerra, Murphy and Osborne
_________________
We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| David wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
Our top 7 disposal winners that night - 2 are left (Swan and Pendles)
Their top 7 disposal winners that night - 7 are left, 6 just won a flag
Interesting point to start |
And who are the other 5? |
Ball, Maxwell, Davis, Thomas and Shaw (equal 7th with Cloke). If Lumumba and Beams leave, we'll only have 7 from the entire 22 left on the list. For whatever that's worth. |
Cheers David. 3 retirements (even though 2 of them remain on our list until list lodgement) not too much you can do about that. |
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jackcass
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| The_Staunton wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
Our top 7 disposal winners that night - 2 are left (Swan and Pendles)
Their top 7 disposal winners that night - 7 are left, 6 just won a flag
Interesting point to start |
And who are the other 5? |
Ball, Davis, Thomas, Maxwell and Shaw (joint with Trav)
Ben Johnson was next with 17 (equal with Rusty) and Harry O after that
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2011/041020110923.html
Swan, Pendlebury, Cloke, Sidebottom, Blair, Reid and Toovey are the only players from that 22 guaranteed to be there next year
Beams and Harry tbd
Ball, Davis, Thomas, Maxwell, Shaw, Johnson, Wellingham, Krakouer, Jolly, Tarrant, Dawes, Leigh Brown and Dids all gone
Hawthorn have kept: Birchall, Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Puopolo, Delicious, Schoenmakers, Sewell, Shiels, Smith, Stratton, Suckling and Whitecross (16 of 22)
Deperted: Bailey, Bateman, Franklin, Guerra, Murphy and Osborne |
And just how many of them would you like to have on our list in 2015? |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| jackcass wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | John Wren wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | So lets look into the crystal ball and imagine a hypothetical scenario.
We are half way through 2015 and are 3-8, having once again been made to look like ragdolls against the likes of the Hawks and such. It becomes obvious Bucks is going no where and is not the future of our club, so Eddie finally relents and pulls the plug.
Where do we go from there - who becomes our target for rebuilding our club.
Now lets try to be serious "perceptive fellow" and Sunshine and Lollipops people, this is a very real possibility and it pays to have an alternative plan and be prudent enough to prepare for the worst case scenario - which this obviously is. |
Get a Board that is not beholden to any one group within the collingwood family.
the only family we appear to be beholden to is the millane family for obvious reasons.
Second non voting members who have had success at other clubs - dare I say it people like Jeff K.
do you even know who is on the current board?
Get a Board who will not allow any President to run the show!
how do you sheet the blame at eddie's feet? if you really want, point the finger at the voting members who allow eddie to return uncontested.
Get a Board that has only collingwood at its heart.
if this is not the case, who's interest do they have at heart?
Do not give free kicks to sides like Melbourne ( queens birthday freebie )
now, this shows you truly do not understand that machinations of footy politics.
Get a board that is farken ruthless in pursuit of winning.
moving malthouse on wasn't a ruthless act?
This would be a start!!!!! |
|
In hindsight, we should have held onto Malthouse for another year or two (regardless of what anyone thinks, it almost certainly cost us the 2011 flag)but what's done is done.
Eddie is not the problem, unless he has blind faith in Bucks and is not willing to admit that maybe he got it wrong - this year will be crunch time for both of them as we all know - regardless of injuries or youth. |
Oh FFS, how often do we need to dredge up these mindless inaccuracies!
Malthouse was contracted to the club beyond 2011 yet he decided not to honor the contract and to add salt to the wounds, allowed his arrogance to cost us the 2011 GF. Move on! |
I have moved on (as have many others), we just don't agree on how or why, but what's done is done.
_________________
All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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The_Staunton
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: Hobart
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| jackcass wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | jackcass wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
Our top 7 disposal winners that night - 2 are left (Swan and Pendles)
Their top 7 disposal winners that night - 7 are left, 6 just won a flag
Interesting point to start |
And who are the other 5? |
Ball, Davis, Thomas, Maxwell and Shaw (joint with Trav)
Ben Johnson was next with 17 (equal with Rusty) and Harry O after that
http://afltables.com/afl/stats/games/2011/041020110923.html
Swan, Pendlebury, Cloke, Sidebottom, Blair, Reid and Toovey are the only players from that 22 guaranteed to be there next year
Beams and Harry tbd
Ball, Davis, Thomas, Maxwell, Shaw, Johnson, Wellingham, Krakouer, Jolly, Tarrant, Dawes, Leigh Brown and Dids all gone
Hawthorn have kept: Birchall, Burgoyne, Gibson, Hale, Hodge, Lewis, Mitchell, Puopolo, Delicious, Schoenmakers, Sewell, Shiels, Smith, Stratton, Suckling and Whitecross (16 of 22)
Deperted: Bailey, Bateman, Franklin, Guerra, Murphy and Osborne |
And just how many of them would you like to have on our list in 2015? |
The point was more to show the turnover in personnel between then and now
There was a continuity in Hawthorn where they kept their players together and we clearly haven't
The point was to answer the OP about what changed in 2012 to now, as a discussion point
And out of them - if you are asking - I'd rather have Heath than Taylor Adams. Dawes and Wellingham being traded for Grundy and Broomhead? Does that need an answer
Where we clearly lag behind Hawthorn though is in picking up recycled players
_________________
We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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