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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
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The_Staunton 
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: Hobart
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| Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
Our top 7 disposal winners that night - 2 are left (Swan and Pendles)
Their top 7 disposal winners that night - 7 are left, 6 just won a flag
Interesting point to start
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We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Wokko wrote: | | Lone Ranger wrote: | 2011 and we are a better team than Hawthorn, and younger.
2014 and both teams have had the same nucleus 2011-2014 yet look at what Hawks have done, and look at what we have done in the 3 years.
So what changed in 2012?
Very frustrating to watch Hawks today. |
We barely scraped past Hawthorn in the 2011 prelim. |
From about the time Heath got suspended for betting that year - everything was undermined from internal struggles (regardless of who's feet you lie the blame at) - it was a shit crap year in the end lost completely by only ourselves, we would have pranced it in if we were all pulling in the same direction...
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| What happened to it? |
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CarringbushCigar 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007
Location: wherever I lay my beanie
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sacking buckley could help Lazza
i mean he nearly cost Hodgey the Norm Smith
he's lost that gig for life |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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| CarringbushCigar wrote: | sacking buckley could help Lazza
i mean he nearly cost Hodgey the Norm Smith
he's lost that gig for life |
I cacked myself when I heard that.The only judge not to give Hodge votes.  OMG if that doesn't tell us what the problem is I don't know. HTF could anyone overlook Hodge. Obviously Bucks didn't want him to become a two time Norm Smith medalist.  (Just kidding)
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Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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cooldewd 
DEFENDER OF THE FAITH
Joined: 09 Apr 2003
Location: Wrenville
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| The_Staunton wrote: | | courtza wrote: | Way to much emphasis is put on the coach, is it beyond possibility that our team isnt good enough at the moment.
Game plan blah blah blah, you need players who can win their positions, and I know that is going to be a struggle alot of the time when your running a young list with injuries to key players.
All the players certain people cry over leaving or retiring from the club arent going to win you a premiership, get over it.
If you win a grand final that dosent automatically justify a dynasty, wake up.
There are ups and downs in sport, no team stay up the top for ever, wake up.
Bucks bleeds black and white, he loves the club, he wants success, can he coach, I reckon hes a better coach than most, is he the best coach , who knows, I think he needs time to prove himself like Malthouse did.
The posters slagging him off and calling him Figjam are a disgrace, this is the term used by $£$%^%%$ asshole players from opposition clubs, so to call him this when you think your a Pies supporter make you a $£$%^%%$ asshole piece of shit. |
Consider this reasoned debate then
"Way too much emphasis is put on the coach" - while I agree with that in modern day AFL (Davoren, Pert, Eddie, the players should be held to account for different decisions) the queries in this case relate to game plan and man management. If the coach is now an overseer, you hope we can implement a game plan and bring people along with him. Given the departures of senior players, and the way we have played for 3 years (coming off the best Collingwood team I've ever seen in 10 and most of 11) you can see why we question?
"Game plan blah blah blah" - not sure anyone can fall on that. You mention injuries - we lost in the same style in 2012, 13 and 14 to Hawthorn. With old players, with new players, with young players, with Premiership players. Our second loss to Hawthorn saw them isolate Lewis on to Shaw and rip us apart on the fast break. 2 years later, guess how we lose to Hawthorn...it's a legitimate complaint to ask what our "style" of game is, what our plan is, what we do for kick outs, to defend kick ins..
There are ups and downs in sport, yes, and I would also agree Darren Jolly wouldn't help us win a Premiership now - nor would Dids, nor would Ben Johnson or Taz. But how could Jordan Russell? Or Marty Clarke? Or Clinton Young? Saying "wake up" or "get over it" seems to indicate that having concerns about some of our favourite sons queueing up to be flicked or our god awful game plan should be quiet? Incidentally - you say "wake up" - Gary Pert tipped a top 4 finish next year and a Premiership by 2016. A re-calibration of that to a seemingly endless post Beams re-build shouldn't be questioned?
I also bleed back and white (if you wish you can say LOLZ 3(#@%_( to Ninthmond! but I know who I support) but it doesn't mean I can coach. What I've objectively seen has been a disaster - yes injuries haven't helped but we still had enough players out there this year that should have seen off the Bulldogs, a Gold Coast team with 1 on the bench, and been more competitive against Essendon or Adelaide.
I hope this is taken as reasoned debate - I'm trying... |
There is a reason we lose to the Hawks, and it predates Buckley in the coaches box.
In our premiership year 2010 - Hawks beat us.
In 2009, an injury ravaged Hawks beat us by 8 goals
In 2008 the Hawks beat us twice by over 10 goals each time.
In 2007, the Hawks beat us.
Now when you consider in those years we had a super young team on the way up, why were they beating us so comfortably?
The same reason they are beating our current injury depleted mob up - they have players with elite foot skills and decision making.
At the draft table the Hawks have absolutely blitzed us.
We GIFTED them the pick to get Jordan Lewis whilst we grabbed Chad Morrison. Breust, Suckling, Whitecross were either rookie picks or second/third rounders. Derek Hine may be good, but Graeme Wright is the best in the business.
Where ever in the field the Hawks see a weakness, they target trade to fill the gap. Lake, Burgoyne, Gibson, McEvoy etc etc. They get what they need to make sure that a perceived weakness does not cost them when it counts.
If Malthouse had targeted just ONE half decent ruckman, we would have had 2002 and 2007 to go with 2010.
We have been our own worst enemy for as long as I have supported this club.
Buckley isn't the problem per se, he was left with a poisoned chalice of a team where the oldies were injury prone and retiring and the young guns injury prone or simply not up to the level of other clubs elite youth.
Whether Bucks can coach or not will be made clear in the fullness of time, but what cannot be disputed is that he is not merely marking time allowing "favourite sons" to play out their careers in exalted mediocrity like we allowed the 1990 flag players to do.
Buckley has started a rebuild BEFORE we bottom out completely. What that means is that we will avoid an extended period in the wilderness and we will bounce back full of running.
The alternative of keeping Jolly, Didak, Shaw, Wellingham, Thomas, Dawes instead of bringing in Grundy, Kennedy, Broomhead, Adams, Scharenberg, Freeman would not have meant we would be flag contenders this season or anytime soon. Infact, if we kept those players we would have possibly won less games than we did with the added pain of no improvement any time soon.
With the bevy of top end talent we are bringing in, the improvement will come quicker than people think. We will get Moore this draft, plus something for Lamumba who will probably net us a second rounder. If Beams does go north (sadly) we should be looking at either two top ten picks from Brisbane (be it pick 4 and Aish) or a top class player in return from Gold Coast (O'Meara, Martin et al).
In many respects, this year reminds me of 1986. We just missed the finals and then lost a lot of experienced players. 1987 we finished 3rd last. By 1988 we started improving dramatically until we flagged in 1990 with the kids picked up in 86/87/88/89.
The worst enemy of the Collingwood football club is our own moronic supporters who cannot see the trees for wood.
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© The Dude ®
Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.
Martin Luther King Jr |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| In Mike's place in Viccy Park. |
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KenH 
Joined: 24 Jan 2010
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| cooldewd wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | courtza wrote: | Way to much emphasis is put on the coach, is it beyond possibility that our team isnt good enough at the moment.
Game plan blah blah blah, you need players who can win their positions, and I know that is going to be a struggle alot of the time when your running a young list with injuries to key players.
All the players certain people cry over leaving or retiring from the club arent going to win you a premiership, get over it.
If you win a grand final that dosent automatically justify a dynasty, wake up.
There are ups and downs in sport, no team stay up the top for ever, wake up.
Bucks bleeds black and white, he loves the club, he wants success, can he coach, I reckon hes a better coach than most, is he the best coach , who knows, I think he needs time to prove himself like Malthouse did.
The posters slagging him off and calling him Figjam are a disgrace, this is the term used by $£$%^%%$ asshole players from opposition clubs, so to call him this when you think your a Pies supporter make you a $£$%^%%$ asshole piece of shit. |
Consider this reasoned debate then
"Way too much emphasis is put on the coach" - while I agree with that in modern day AFL (Davoren, Pert, Eddie, the players should be held to account for different decisions) the queries in this case relate to game plan and man management. If the coach is now an overseer, you hope we can implement a game plan and bring people along with him. Given the departures of senior players, and the way we have played for 3 years (coming off the best Collingwood team I've ever seen in 10 and most of 11) you can see why we question?
"Game plan blah blah blah" - not sure anyone can fall on that. You mention injuries - we lost in the same style in 2012, 13 and 14 to Hawthorn. With old players, with new players, with young players, with Premiership players. Our second loss to Hawthorn saw them isolate Lewis on to Shaw and rip us apart on the fast break. 2 years later, guess how we lose to Hawthorn...it's a legitimate complaint to ask what our "style" of game is, what our plan is, what we do for kick outs, to defend kick ins..
There are ups and downs in sport, yes, and I would also agree Darren Jolly wouldn't help us win a Premiership now - nor would Dids, nor would Ben Johnson or Taz. But how could Jordan Russell? Or Marty Clarke? Or Clinton Young? Saying "wake up" or "get over it" seems to indicate that having concerns about some of our favourite sons queueing up to be flicked or our god awful game plan should be quiet? Incidentally - you say "wake up" - Gary Pert tipped a top 4 finish next year and a Premiership by 2016. A re-calibration of that to a seemingly endless post Beams re-build shouldn't be questioned?
I also bleed back and white (if you wish you can say LOLZ 3(#@%_( to Ninthmond! but I know who I support) but it doesn't mean I can coach. What I've objectively seen has been a disaster - yes injuries haven't helped but we still had enough players out there this year that should have seen off the Bulldogs, a Gold Coast team with 1 on the bench, and been more competitive against Essendon or Adelaide.
I hope this is taken as reasoned debate - I'm trying... |
There is a reason we lose to the Hawks, and it predates Buckley in the coaches box.
In our premiership year 2010 - Hawks beat us.
In 2009, an injury ravaged Hawks beat us by 8 goals
In 2008 the Hawks beat us twice by over 10 goals each time.
In 2007, the Hawks beat us.
Now when you consider in those years we had a super young team on the way up, why were they beating us so comfortably?
The same reason they are beating our current injury depleted mob up - they have players with elite foot skills and decision making.
At the draft table the Hawks have absolutely blitzed us.
We GIFTED them the pick to get Jordan Lewis whilst we grabbed Chad Morrison. Breust, Suckling, Whitecross were either rookie picks or second/third rounders. Derek Hine may be good, but Graeme Wright is the best in the business.
Where ever in the field the Hawks see a weakness, they target trade to fill the gap. Lake, Burgoyne, Gibson, McEvoy etc etc. They get what they need to make sure that a perceived weakness does not cost them when it counts.
If Malthouse had targeted just ONE half decent ruckman, we would have had 2002 and 2007 to go with 2010.
We have been our own worst enemy for as long as I have supported this club.
Buckley isn't the problem per se, he was left with a poisoned chalice of a team where the oldies were injury prone and retiring and the young guns injury prone or simply not up to the level of other clubs elite youth.
Whether Bucks can coach or not will be made clear in the fullness of time, but what cannot be disputed is that he is not merely marking time allowing "favourite sons" to play out their careers in exalted mediocrity like we allowed the 1990 flag players to do.
Buckley has started a rebuild BEFORE we bottom out completely. What that means is that we will avoid an extended period in the wilderness and we will bounce back full of running.
The alternative of keeping Jolly, Didak, Shaw, Wellingham, Thomas, Dawes instead of bringing in Grundy, Kennedy, Broomhead, Adams, Scharenberg, Freeman would not have meant we would be flag contenders this season or anytime soon. Infact, if we kept those players we would have possibly won less games than we did with the added pain of no improvement any time soon.
With the bevy of top end talent we are bringing in, the improvement will come quicker than people think. We will get Moore this draft, plus something for Lamumba who will probably net us a second rounder. If Beams does go north (sadly) we should be looking at either two top ten picks from Brisbane (be it pick 4 and Aish) or a top class player in return from Gold Coast (O'Meara, Martin et al).
In many respects, this year reminds me of 1986. We just missed the finals and then lost a lot of experienced players. 1987 we finished 3rd last. By 1988 we started improving dramatically until we flagged in 1990 with the kids picked up in 86/87/88/89.
The worst enemy of the Collingwood football club is our own moronic supporters who cannot see the trees for wood. |
I think I like you!
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Cheers big ears |
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Hiss
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
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| Post subject: Yes | |
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I don't mind people disagreeing with my views ! Our great club was famous for its disagreements, passion and the resultant success that from that! The modern Collingwood is a micro controlled environment where difference points of view are not welcome ! These are the seeds of long term failure! Posters on here that want to crush any view that differs with theirs are ordinarily lowly achievers in their own lives lacking much intellect! Backward types who can't comprehend another point of view! I look to successful clubs like Hawthorn and more recently Port Adelaide and note their Presidents don't hang around forever! New leadership brings a new fresh perspective and should be demanded at our Club! As for reporting differing posts to the mods on here . Well that is the sort of stuff I'd expect of a spoilt selfish immature school girl! How pathetic
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I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
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Big T
Joined: 18 Oct 2003
Location: Torino, Italy
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| Post subject: Re: Yes | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | I don't mind people disagreeing with my views ! Our great club was famous for its disagreements, passion and the resultant success that from that! The modern Collingwood is a micro controlled environment where difference points of view are not welcome ! These are the seeds of long term failure! Posters on here that want to crush any view that differs with theirs are ordinarily lowly achievers in their own lives lacking much intellect! Backward types who can't comprehend another point of view! I look to successful clubs like Hawthorn and more recently Port Adelaide and note their Presidents don't hang around forever! New leadership brings a new fresh perspective and should be demanded at our Club! As for reporting differing posts to the mods on here . Well that is the sort of stuff I'd expect of a spoilt selfish immature school girl! How pathetic |
Plus we have no home ground or social club.
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Buon Giorno |
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Member 7167 
"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout
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| Post subject: Re: Yes | |
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| Hiss wrote: | | I don't mind people disagreeing with my views ! Our great club was famous for its disagreements, passion and the resultant success that from that! The modern Collingwood is a micro controlled environment where difference points of view are not welcome ! These are the seeds of long term failure! Posters on here that want to crush any view that differs with theirs are ordinarily lowly achievers in their own lives lacking much intellect! Backward types who can't comprehend another point of view! I look to successful clubs like Hawthorn and more recently Port Adelaide and note their Presidents don't hang around forever! New leadership brings a new fresh perspective and should be demanded at our Club! As for reporting differing posts to the mods on here . Well that is the sort of stuff I'd expect of a spoilt selfish immature school girl! How pathetic |
That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen on Nicks. Hiss, your ignorance has no bounds. |
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Hiss
Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Location: Geelong
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| Post subject: Re: Yes | |
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| Member 7167 wrote: | | Hiss wrote: | | I don't mind people disagreeing with my views ! Our great club was famous for its disagreements, passion and the resultant success that from that! The modern Collingwood is a micro controlled environment where difference points of view are not welcome ! These are the seeds of long term failure! Posters on here that want to crush any view that differs with theirs are ordinarily lowly achievers in their own lives lacking much intellect! Backward types who can't comprehend another point of view! I look to successful clubs like Hawthorn and more recently Port Adelaide and note their Presidents don't hang around forever! New leadership brings a new fresh perspective and should be demanded at our Club! As for reporting differing posts to the mods on here . Well that is the sort of stuff I'd expect of a spoilt selfish immature school girl! How pathetic |
That is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen on Nicks. Hiss, your ignorance has no bounds. |
But you didn't deny it smart arse! Once again you just attack the man and not the ball! You are part of the so called supporters at our Club that cause it to fail! You defend poor coaching , arrogant administration , a loss of tradition a and facilities , and applaud poor on field performance ! Then you attack anyone who dares question it. I am truly convinced this site has Carlton plants on it that behave like that! I bleed black and white and will always criticise those who accept the devaluation of our club through poor performance and leadership arrogance ! If you don't like it then go support clubs like Melbourne where failure is ok ! Shut it!
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I love this club and I hold anyone in contempt who does not think it is worth fighting for. |
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The_Staunton
Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Location: Hobart
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| cooldewd wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | courtza wrote: | Way to much emphasis is put on the coach, is it beyond possibility that our team isnt good enough at the moment.
Game plan blah blah blah, you need players who can win their positions, and I know that is going to be a struggle alot of the time when your running a young list with injuries to key players.
All the players certain people cry over leaving or retiring from the club arent going to win you a premiership, get over it.
If you win a grand final that dosent automatically justify a dynasty, wake up.
There are ups and downs in sport, no team stay up the top for ever, wake up.
Bucks bleeds black and white, he loves the club, he wants success, can he coach, I reckon hes a better coach than most, is he the best coach , who knows, I think he needs time to prove himself like Malthouse did.
The posters slagging him off and calling him Figjam are a disgrace, this is the term used by $£$%^%%$ asshole players from opposition clubs, so to call him this when you think your a Pies supporter make you a $£$%^%%$ asshole piece of shit. |
Consider this reasoned debate then
"Way too much emphasis is put on the coach" - while I agree with that in modern day AFL (Davoren, Pert, Eddie, the players should be held to account for different decisions) the queries in this case relate to game plan and man management. If the coach is now an overseer, you hope we can implement a game plan and bring people along with him. Given the departures of senior players, and the way we have played for 3 years (coming off the best Collingwood team I've ever seen in 10 and most of 11) you can see why we question?
"Game plan blah blah blah" - not sure anyone can fall on that. You mention injuries - we lost in the same style in 2012, 13 and 14 to Hawthorn. With old players, with new players, with young players, with Premiership players. Our second loss to Hawthorn saw them isolate Lewis on to Shaw and rip us apart on the fast break. 2 years later, guess how we lose to Hawthorn...it's a legitimate complaint to ask what our "style" of game is, what our plan is, what we do for kick outs, to defend kick ins..
There are ups and downs in sport, yes, and I would also agree Darren Jolly wouldn't help us win a Premiership now - nor would Dids, nor would Ben Johnson or Taz. But how could Jordan Russell? Or Marty Clarke? Or Clinton Young? Saying "wake up" or "get over it" seems to indicate that having concerns about some of our favourite sons queueing up to be flicked or our god awful game plan should be quiet? Incidentally - you say "wake up" - Gary Pert tipped a top 4 finish next year and a Premiership by 2016. A re-calibration of that to a seemingly endless post Beams re-build shouldn't be questioned?
I also bleed back and white (if you wish you can say LOLZ 3(#@%_( to Ninthmond! but I know who I support) but it doesn't mean I can coach. What I've objectively seen has been a disaster - yes injuries haven't helped but we still had enough players out there this year that should have seen off the Bulldogs, a Gold Coast team with 1 on the bench, and been more competitive against Essendon or Adelaide.
I hope this is taken as reasoned debate - I'm trying... |
There is a reason we lose to the Hawks, and it predates Buckley in the coaches box.
In our premiership year 2010 - Hawks beat us.
In 2009, an injury ravaged Hawks beat us by 8 goals
In 2008 the Hawks beat us twice by over 10 goals each time.
In 2007, the Hawks beat us.
Now when you consider in those years we had a super young team on the way up, why were they beating us so comfortably?
The same reason they are beating our current injury depleted mob up - they have players with elite foot skills and decision making.
At the draft table the Hawks have absolutely blitzed us.
We GIFTED them the pick to get Jordan Lewis whilst we grabbed Chad Morrison. Breust, Suckling, Whitecross were either rookie picks or second/third rounders. Derek Hine may be good, but Graeme Wright is the best in the business.
Where ever in the field the Hawks see a weakness, they target trade to fill the gap. Lake, Burgoyne, Gibson, McEvoy etc etc. They get what they need to make sure that a perceived weakness does not cost them when it counts.
If Malthouse had targeted just ONE half decent ruckman, we would have had 2002 and 2007 to go with 2010.
We have been our own worst enemy for as long as I have supported this club.
Buckley isn't the problem per se, he was left with a poisoned chalice of a team where the oldies were injury prone and retiring and the young guns injury prone or simply not up to the level of other clubs elite youth.
Whether Bucks can coach or not will be made clear in the fullness of time, but what cannot be disputed is that he is not merely marking time allowing "favourite sons" to play out their careers in exalted mediocrity like we allowed the 1990 flag players to do.
Buckley has started a rebuild BEFORE we bottom out completely. What that means is that we will avoid an extended period in the wilderness and we will bounce back full of running.
The alternative of keeping Jolly, Didak, Shaw, Wellingham, Thomas, Dawes instead of bringing in Grundy, Kennedy, Broomhead, Adams, Scharenberg, Freeman would not have meant we would be flag contenders this season or anytime soon. Infact, if we kept those players we would have possibly won less games than we did with the added pain of no improvement any time soon.
With the bevy of top end talent we are bringing in, the improvement will come quicker than people think. We will get Moore this draft, plus something for Lamumba who will probably net us a second rounder. If Beams does go north (sadly) we should be looking at either two top ten picks from Brisbane (be it pick 4 and Aish) or a top class player in return from Gold Coast (O'Meara, Martin et al).
In many respects, this year reminds me of 1986. We just missed the finals and then lost a lot of experienced players. 1987 we finished 3rd last. By 1988 we started improving dramatically until we flagged in 1990 with the kids picked up in 86/87/88/89.
The worst enemy of the Collingwood football club is our own moronic supporters who cannot see the trees for wood. |
Good debate until the moron part
We also dismantled Hawthorn in a H*A game in 2011, I think keeping them to maybe 2 goals for a half? I was at the game, and we slaughtered them with our pressure.
The frustration for a lot of us is in comparison to Hawthorn. That they have 3 flags (and back to back) hurts when we were supposedly on the edge of a dynasty. There's an argument that far better target recruiting spree to build around that midfield would have kept the Premiership window open. You talk about the need for a rebuild? What if we had picked up Gunston? Or targeted Brian Lake to slot in down back? No one expects Lance Franklin with our salary cap problems, but there was an argument to be made to "strike while the iron is hot" rather than just throw our hands up and embark on this mythical "sustained success" path.
If you want to extend it out to our other "recycled" players of yore I won't necessarily argue (hello Richard Osborne and Anthony Corrie) - and by the way, this isn't a blind criticism of just Buckley. Malthouse dropped the lip, Jolly did too, Travis Cloke on the Footy Show and Dale Thomas walking around the Westpac Centre humming the Carlton song are examples of players acting selfishly. I also truly believe sending Sharrod Wellingham out with a flea in his ear and flicking Leon Davis were actions that broke the unique bond in that 2010/11 team (and that's on Gary Pert in the former case).
I guess the frustration is that while Hawthorn since "Ball throws it on the boot!" have done everything right while Collingwood have done everything wrong (including I believe passing up on Aish) - not all Buckleys fault, but some of it clearly is.
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We just got nutted at the clearances... |
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Wilko
Joined: 21 Jun 2014
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| cooldewd wrote: | | The_Staunton wrote: | | courtza wrote: | Way to much emphasis is put on the coach, is it beyond possibility that our team isnt good enough at the moment.
Game plan blah blah blah, you need players who can win their positions, and I know that is going to be a struggle alot of the time when your running a young list with injuries to key players.
All the players certain people cry over leaving or retiring from the club arent going to win you a premiership, get over it.
If you win a grand final that dosent automatically justify a dynasty, wake up.
There are ups and downs in sport, no team stay up the top for ever, wake up.
Bucks bleeds black and white, he loves the club, he wants success, can he coach, I reckon hes a better coach than most, is he the best coach , who knows, I think he needs time to prove himself like Malthouse did.
The posters slagging him off and calling him Figjam are a disgrace, this is the term used by $£$%^%%$ asshole players from opposition clubs, so to call him this when you think your a Pies supporter make you a $£$%^%%$ asshole piece of shit. |
Consider this reasoned debate then
"Way too much emphasis is put on the coach" - while I agree with that in modern day AFL (Davoren, Pert, Eddie, the players should be held to account for different decisions) the queries in this case relate to game plan and man management. If the coach is now an overseer, you hope we can implement a game plan and bring people along with him. Given the departures of senior players, and the way we have played for 3 years (coming off the best Collingwood team I've ever seen in 10 and most of 11) you can see why we question?
"Game plan blah blah blah" - not sure anyone can fall on that. You mention injuries - we lost in the same style in 2012, 13 and 14 to Hawthorn. With old players, with new players, with young players, with Premiership players. Our second loss to Hawthorn saw them isolate Lewis on to Shaw and rip us apart on the fast break. 2 years later, guess how we lose to Hawthorn...it's a legitimate complaint to ask what our "style" of game is, what our plan is, what we do for kick outs, to defend kick ins..
There are ups and downs in sport, yes, and I would also agree Darren Jolly wouldn't help us win a Premiership now - nor would Dids, nor would Ben Johnson or Taz. But how could Jordan Russell? Or Marty Clarke? Or Clinton Young? Saying "wake up" or "get over it" seems to indicate that having concerns about some of our favourite sons queueing up to be flicked or our god awful game plan should be quiet? Incidentally - you say "wake up" - Gary Pert tipped a top 4 finish next year and a Premiership by 2016. A re-calibration of that to a seemingly endless post Beams re-build shouldn't be questioned?
I also bleed back and white (if you wish you can say LOLZ 3(#@%_( to Ninthmond! but I know who I support) but it doesn't mean I can coach. What I've objectively seen has been a disaster - yes injuries haven't helped but we still had enough players out there this year that should have seen off the Bulldogs, a Gold Coast team with 1 on the bench, and been more competitive against Essendon or Adelaide.
I hope this is taken as reasoned debate - I'm trying... |
There is a reason we lose to the Hawks, and it predates Buckley in the coaches box.
In our premiership year 2010 - Hawks beat us.
In 2009, an injury ravaged Hawks beat us by 8 goals
In 2008 the Hawks beat us twice by over 10 goals each time.
In 2007, the Hawks beat us.
Now when you consider in those years we had a super young team on the way up, why were they beating us so comfortably?
The same reason they are beating our current injury depleted mob up - they have players with elite foot skills and decision making.
At the draft table the Hawks have absolutely blitzed us.
We GIFTED them the pick to get Jordan Lewis whilst we grabbed Chad Morrison. Breust, Suckling, Whitecross were either rookie picks or second/third rounders. Derek Hine may be good, but Graeme Wright is the best in the business.
Where ever in the field the Hawks see a weakness, they target trade to fill the gap. Lake, Burgoyne, Gibson, McEvoy etc etc. They get what they need to make sure that a perceived weakness does not cost them when it counts.
If Malthouse had targeted just ONE half decent ruckman, we would have had 2002 and 2007 to go with 2010.
We have been our own worst enemy for as long as I have supported this club.
Buckley isn't the problem per se, he was left with a poisoned chalice of a team where the oldies were injury prone and retiring and the young guns injury prone or simply not up to the level of other clubs elite youth.
Whether Bucks can coach or not will be made clear in the fullness of time, but what cannot be disputed is that he is not merely marking time allowing "favourite sons" to play out their careers in exalted mediocrity like we allowed the 1990 flag players to do.
Buckley has started a rebuild BEFORE we bottom out completely. What that means is that we will avoid an extended period in the wilderness and we will bounce back full of running.
The alternative of keeping Jolly, Didak, Shaw, Wellingham, Thomas, Dawes instead of bringing in Grundy, Kennedy, Broomhead, Adams, Scharenberg, Freeman would not have meant we would be flag contenders this season or anytime soon. Infact, if we kept those players we would have possibly won less games than we did with the added pain of no improvement any time soon.
With the bevy of top end talent we are bringing in, the improvement will come quicker than people think. We will get Moore this draft, plus something for Lamumba who will probably net us a second rounder. If Beams does go north (sadly) we should be looking at either two top ten picks from Brisbane (be it pick 4 and Aish) or a top class player in return from Gold Coast (O'Meara, Martin et al).
In many respects, this year reminds me of 1986. We just missed the finals and then lost a lot of experienced players. 1987 we finished 3rd last. By 1988 we started improving dramatically until we flagged in 1990 with the kids picked up in 86/87/88/89.
The worst enemy of the Collingwood football club is our own moronic supporters who cannot see the trees for wood. |
Way to much commonsense for many on this forum cooldewd
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Wilkinson |
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