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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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| thompsoc wrote: | Who is to blame for our pathetic kick out strategy!
Towards the end of the year you could hear a collective sigh
from the crowd when we took the kick out.
Yes, 15m kick to the deep defensive pocket
time and time again was a master stroke by bucks! |
Did you ever stop to think that it may have had little to do with our game plan and more to do witht the fact that the lack of experience and talent playing for us forced errors??
I have my concerns re bucks, but give it a rest. Blaming him for every minute detail In every failure is over simplistic and ignorant.
You could have the perfect plan, but without the cattle to execute it, your dead in the water. Likewise vise versa is also true.
For mine it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Young team. Young coach. All of whom made mistakes. All of whom, learn and grow together.
The sacking of Ratten should be a firm lesson in the reasons why sacking the coach isn't the answer to everything.
_________________
No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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jdpie1970
Joined: 26 Sep 2014
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| Last time i watched a game the coach didn't have the ball in hand at full back and was not leading hard to space or blocking for a mate to create space. All the planning and theory on how something should work necessarily predicates a successful outcome. The players have to be able to execute and by the end of the year they were toast. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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| September Zeros wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Who is to blame for our pathetic kick out strategy!
Towards the end of the year you could hear a collective sigh
from the crowd when we took the kick out.
Yes, 15m kick to the deep defensive pocket
time and time again was a master stroke by bucks! |
Did you ever stop to think that it may have had little to do with our game plan and more to do witht the fact that the lack of experience and talent playing for us forced errors??
I have my concerns re bucks, but give it a rest. Blaming him for every minute detail In every failure is over simplistic and ignorant.
You could have the perfect plan, but without the cattle to execute it, your dead in the water. Likewise vise versa is also true.
For mine it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Young team. Young coach. All of whom made mistakes. All of whom, learn and grow together.
The sacking of Ratten should be a firm lesson in the reasons why sacking the coach isn't the answer to everything. |
AND look at the Saints for further proof, our opponents in the GF of four yrs ago. Prior to that GF, they dominated the comp, had played Finals for some years, 3 GFs, missed out on two flags by a bees knee. Then, like us, a heap of experienced guys left, ala tiprat, goddard, del santo, and they, like us, brought in kids, and were hit by some big injuries too. They took the easy way out, blamed it all on Watters, sacked him and have just won another wooden spoon, to add to therir vast collection of spoons. Despite all our injuries, heaps of them, turnover of the List, a host of kids coming in, we still won 11 games, and went nowhere near as bad as our former strong opponents, the saints. Bucks has one more year to run, THEN we can judge him fairly and squarely, and make tough calls if need be. THATS how sensible and mature teams do it, not half assed like the saints. Its just plain bloody commonsense.  
_________________
Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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John Wren 
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
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| jdpie1970 wrote: | | Last time i watched a game the coach didn't have the ball in hand at full back and was not leading hard to space or blocking for a mate to create space. All the planning and theory on how something should work necessarily predicates a successful outcome. The players have to be able to execute and by the end of the year they were toast. |
at the member's night it was mentioned they do not coach for the short kick ins.
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Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Piesnchess wrote: | | AND look at the Saints for further proof, our opponents in the GF of four yrs ago. Prior to that GF, they dominated the comp, had played Finals for some years, 3 GFs, missed out on two flags by a bees knee. Then, like us, a heap of experienced guys left, ala tiprat, goddard, del santo, and they, like us, brought in kids, and were hit by some big injuries too. They took the easy way out, blamed it all on Watters, sacked him and have just won another wooden spoon, to add to therir vast collection of spoons. Despite all our injuries, heaps of them, turnover of the List, a host of kids coming in, we still won 11 games, and went nowhere near as bad as our former strong opponents, the saints. Bucks has one more year to run, THEN we can judge him fairly and squarely, and make tough calls if need be. THATS how sensible and mature teams do it, not half assed like the saints. Its just plain bloody commonsense. |
There you go again Piesnchess talking commonsense to some posters here who just don't get it.....except that its ALL Buck's fault... |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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Sacking the coach never works ... just look at Port sacking Primus for Hinkley.
In our history, sacking the coach has never worked.
Except when we brought in Mathhews.
Oh, and maybe when we brought in Tom Hafey and went from last for Grand finalist the next year.
Oh yeh, Malthouse for Tony Shaw.
But other than that ... it never works.
Piesnchess, you have said on other threads "how quickly things can turn arround .. just look at Port".
Dont you realise that 90% of Ports improvement is because they changed coach?
Last edited by Lone Ranger on Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | Sacking the coach never works ... just look at Port sacking Primus for Hinkley.
In our history, sacking the coach has never worked.
Except when we brought in Mathhews.
Oh, and maybe when we brought in Tom Hafey and went from last for Grand finalist the next year.
Oh yeh, Malthouse for Tony Shaw.
But other than that ... it never works. |
OK, can you provide us a balanced view with the stats for the vast amounts of times a coach sacking DIDN'T work??
Can I start with the Hafey sacking at Collingwood, let you fill in the middle bit and end with the multiple coach sackings at both Richmond and St. Kilda?? They worked a bloody treat, didn't they Lone Ranger!!! So wish we had great success like Richmond and St. Kilda....    |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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| So Port made a mistake putting Hinkley in? |
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King Malta 
RIP Flip
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Location: Gettin' Wiggy
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | | So Port made a mistake putting Hinkley in? |
Now, he didn't say that did he?
You offered a very one sided view point of the discussion with limited examples. Lazza asked if you could provide examples of the opposite to your claims being true.
Can't actually find a mention of Hinkley anywhere in his post. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | | So Port made a mistake putting Hinkley in? |
No, I never said that and you know it! I asked for balance. I will stick my neck out here and say that I think actual evidence will show that sacking VFL/AFL coaches brought clubs ultimate success (flag win) only in about 10% of the ALL the instances that it happened in history. Feel entirely free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.....  |
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Lone Ranger
Joined: 02 Apr 2003
Location: Macedon Ranges
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Im giving balance!
You and Piesnchess are effectively saying sacking the coach never works. Ive given some examples where it has worked. to balance this.
Im not saying it always works. Sheesh.
Various people not wanting to change the coach have mentioned that things can turn around quickly and quote Port as an example. The Port turn around is largely due to replacing Primus with Hinkley. |
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Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
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| Lone Ranger wrote: | Im giving balance!
You and Piesnchess are effectively saying sacking the coach never works. Ive given some examples where it has worked. to balance this.
Im not saying it always works. Sheesh.
Various people not wanting to change the coach have mentioned that things can turn around quickly and quote Port as an example. The Port turn around is largely due to replacing Primus with Hinkley. |
Now you are digressing!! You won’t be able to quote me because I have NEVER posted that sacking a coach doesn’t work.
All I have said is that Buck's needs till the end of 2015 due to the injury riddled back luck year he had this year. I don’t support the calls from the wild to sack him NOW...... |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| September Zeros wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Who is to blame for our pathetic kick out strategy!
Towards the end of the year you could hear a collective sigh
from the crowd when we took the kick out.
Yes, 15m kick to the deep defensive pocket
time and time again was a master stroke by bucks! |
Did you ever stop to think that it may have had little to do with our game plan and more to do witht the fact that the lack of experience and talent playing for us forced errors??
I have my concerns re bucks, but give it a rest. Blaming him for every minute detail In every failure is over simplistic and ignorant.
You could have the perfect plan, but without the cattle to execute it, your dead in the water. Likewise vise versa is also true.
For mine it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Young team. Young coach. All of whom made mistakes. All of whom, learn and grow together.
The sacking of Ratten should be a firm lesson in the reasons why sacking the coach isn't the answer to everything. |
We did have the perfect kick out specialist
but bucks did not want him!
The kick out is an area where the coach has a big say!
But as usual the "perceptive fellow" makes a legitimate point
and the happy sacks make the usual excuses.
The kick outs were pathetic! They were almost beyond belief this year.
Do you honestly think that the coach was not responsible
for this one dimensional kick out strategy!
FFS admit it was hopeless but if you think it was ok
given our "cattle" then you are nothing but a .........!
As for your reasoning that sacking a coach is never
the answer just think of the name Primus.
For every Ratten there is a Hinkley!
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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| thompsoc wrote: | | September Zeros wrote: | | thompsoc wrote: | Who is to blame for our pathetic kick out strategy!
Towards the end of the year you could hear a collective sigh
from the crowd when we took the kick out.
Yes, 15m kick to the deep defensive pocket
time and time again was a master stroke by bucks! |
Did you ever stop to think that it may have had little to do with our game plan and more to do witht the fact that the lack of experience and talent playing for us forced errors??
I have my concerns re bucks, but give it a rest. Blaming him for every minute detail In every failure is over simplistic and ignorant.
You could have the perfect plan, but without the cattle to execute it, your dead in the water. Likewise vise versa is also true.
For mine it's a little from column A and a little from column B. Young team. Young coach. All of whom made mistakes. All of whom, learn and grow together.
The sacking of Ratten should be a firm lesson in the reasons why sacking the coach isn't the answer to everything. |
We did have the perfect kick out specialist
but bucks did not want him!
The kick out is an area where the coach has a big say!
But as usual the "perceptive fellow" makes a legitimate point
and the happy sacks make the usual excuses.
The kick outs were pathetic! They were almost beyond belief this year.
Do you honestly think that the coach was not responsible
for this one dimensional kick out strategy!
FFS admit it was hopeless but if you think it was ok
given our "cattle" then you are nothing but a .........!
As for your reasoning that sacking a coach is never
the answer just think of the name Primus.
For every Ratten there is a Hinkley! |
Number one: don't lump me in your tired happy sack v "perceptive fellow" debate. I'm over all that crap that's clogging nicks. I weigh in on both sides depending on the topic and my perspective. I don't merely beat up one side just for the sake of my own pride and to be honest I'm not sure why you took my point of view so personally. Was merely offering another way of looking at it.
Number two.... Please go ahead and fill in your blanks coward.
Number three: don't put words in my mouth, I clearly said sacking the coach isn't the answer to everything not that it's never the answer. (Got to love being misquoted for the sake of someone's own agenda)
As to you and yours argument, Matthews took 5 seasons to win one flag in 10 years at the helm, malthouse took 10, and regardless of ports season hinkley hasn't won one yet. You can be as competitive as you like without the silver it's all for nothing.
Your problem is you only read what you want too.....but if you read my post carefully you'll see I didn't excuse bucks, I merely pointed out other contributing factors to which you remain ignorant.
_________________
No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
________________ |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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Mr September
No personal abuse allowed on nicks, so the blanks remain.
But as usual I get personal abuse!
Never called for bucks sacking just said his coaching tactics were pathetic.
I'm not talking about winning flags just said his game day kick outs were
hopeless.
Maybe you should read my points more carefully.
PS
So you thought the kick outs were fine?
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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