 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
Beams gone.
Lumumba gone.
Reid 4 games.
Freeman 0 games.
Scharenberg ACL.
Losing 8 of our last 11.
Missing finals.
Massive amount of soft tissue injuries.
?
?
And people wonder why we're at each others throats right now?
IMO we're currently (yes it continues) living through our most demoralising season of football since 1999 when you factor in
both on field and off field issues.
It's been a train wreck.
But we get up, dust ourselves off and look forward to going back into battle in season 2015.
How we respond next year will define us, it's sink or swim time for the entire football club within this era of Buckley as senior coach.
For Buckley to continue we simply must improve and I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation to have with a coach in his 4th year at the helm. The curve needs to be seen to be going upwards again for some hope to be restored.
If we don't then it's time for a new chapter to begin under a new coach.
Life goes on and we'll just pick ourselves up, dust each other off and march together into battle in 2016.
Players, coaches and officials come and go but the club always remains and the best interests of the club should always come first.
Side by side.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
|
|
|
 |
swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| RudeBoy wrote: | | ThePieMind wrote: | In absence of establishing an enduring culture clubs just lurch from the Charisma and competence of one coach to the other.
The process is entirely hit or miss.
LT have achieved success at what are arguable the best 3 teams of the last decade - GEEL, SWANS and HAWKS.
If we are prepared to poach their support staff to improve our club then I don't see why using LT has come in for such criticism given the results at these clubs.
We will have teething problems of course and some players may resist but at the end of the day building a sustainably success culture is worth the effort.
Swans have proven a strong culture underpinns effective coaching transitions and that's what its all about. |
Yes, they have worked with the Hawks and Swans. I don't believe LT has worked with Geelong. I do know they've been working with the Bulldogs for several years, with not much success it seems. Obviously, it's a system which some people embrace, but equally there are those who find it intrusive and destructive. It partly depends on the personality types of those involved in it, which will vary from club to club.
I also know that LT were not involved at our club in 2010 when we won a flag. |
I'd really be interested to know what years and how long LT worked with the likes of the swans?
Anyone got any info on that?
Hearing McVeigh speak the other night on on the couch you could just tell what a strong culture the swans have created and how committed the players are to each other in wanting to achieve the goal of a premiership.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| John Wren wrote: | it is almost a time honoured tradition, the rudeboy post calling for an end to hostilities between the warring factions whomever they are.
it reminds me of one of the scene in the life of brian when the blashpemer was stoned.
in answer to your question rudie, since the mm years the culture has changed and is continuing to shift. sometimes people do not adapt or move with it and end up a poor fit. if you can't adapt, you die. if players want to jump off the bus let them.
how much do we truly understand what things were like back under mick? he had his own way but it is well known buckley was unimpressed with the way shaw and didak were treated way back then and he thought more should have been done. it's no coincidence they're both gone. we should also look at pert and the type of person he comes across as. very rarely is anyone left in any doubt as to what his views are and how he believes people should behave. i see him as a very strong individual.
fwiw, i think the club is led extremely well. i also think that the sea of new faces gives the club every opportunity to reset and align itself to the single focus of winning a flag. that we might have to take a few steps back to go forward is neither here nor there for me. |
I tend to agree JW. I guess I was simply trying to find some common ground between the warring factions on Nicks, and no better way to unite people than to find a common enemy. LTs seemed as good a group to target as any, especially as there did not seem to be any Jihadist terrorists at our club we could blame for our current problems.  |
|
|
|
|
uncanny
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Location: Castlemaine
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Gerard Whateley the ABC commentator has Nathan Buckley in the commentary box tomorrow, as he did last week. I hear Gerard say on radio earlier in the week what a privilege it was to have Bucks on hand during the call for the Hawks Power clash. He put it as having a hotline to the coaches box.
Gerard described a debate between Bucks and Mark Maclure in the last q before power made their charge. Maclure said power should go shorter and faster in the forward line. Bucks gave him all these logical reasons why it shouldn't happen. Stick to the structure. They went small and power came storming home. Footy instinct and smarts over structure and process was the way to go.
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. It reminds me of the football instincts of a Ken Hinkley and his forthright manner empowering his players to take the game on, all the while playing for each other might be what's lacking with the pies.
Let's not throw out LT and the methods employed but can we overlay it with more passion, magpie spirit and mateship?
_________________
woodsmen rule |
|
|
|
|
RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| uncanny wrote: | Gerard Whateley the ABC commentator has Nathan Buckley in the commentary box tomorrow, as he did last week. I hear Gerard say on radio earlier in the week what a privilege it was to have Bucks on hand during the call for the Hawks Power clash. He put it as having a hotline to the coaches box.
Gerard described a debate between Bucks and Mark Maclure in the last q before power made their charge. Maclure said power should go shorter and faster in the forward line. Bucks gave him all these logical reasons why it shouldn't happen. Stick to the structure. They went small and power came storming home. Footy instinct and smarts over structure and process was the way to go.
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. It reminds me of the football instincts of a Ken Hinkley and his forthright manner empowering his players to take the game on, all the while playing for each other might be what's lacking with the pies.
Let's not throw out LT and the methods employed but can we overlay it with more passion, magpie spirit and mateship? |
Good post uncanny. |
|
|
|
|
Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| swoop42 wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: | | ThePieMind wrote: | In absence of establishing an enduring culture clubs just lurch from the Charisma and competence of one coach to the other.
The process is entirely hit or miss.
LT have achieved success at what are arguable the best 3 teams of the last decade - GEEL, SWANS and HAWKS.
If we are prepared to poach their support staff to improve our club then I don't see why using LT has come in for such criticism given the results at these clubs.
We will have teething problems of course and some players may resist but at the end of the day building a sustainably success culture is worth the effort.
Swans have proven a strong culture underpinns effective coaching transitions and that's what its all about. |
Yes, they have worked with the Hawks and Swans. I don't believe LT has worked with Geelong. I do know they've been working with the Bulldogs for several years, with not much success it seems. Obviously, it's a system which some people embrace, but equally there are those who find it intrusive and destructive. It partly depends on the personality types of those involved in it, which will vary from club to club.
I also know that LT were not involved at our club in 2010 when we won a flag. |
I'd really be interested to know what years and how long LT worked with the likes of the swans?
Anyone got any info on that?
Hearing McVeigh speak the other night on on the couch you could just tell what a strong culture the swans have created and how committed the players are to each other in wanting to achieve the goal of a premiership. |
Leading Teams was credited with things picking up in Geelong. It was the process by which the senior players told Gary Ablett to pull his finger out and unleash his potential for example.
_________________
One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
|
|
|
|
swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| uncanny wrote: | Gerard Whateley the ABC commentator has Nathan Buckley in the commentary box tomorrow, as he did last week. I hear Gerard say on radio earlier in the week what a privilege it was to have Bucks on hand during the call for the Hawks Power clash. He put it as having a hotline to the coaches box.
Gerard described a debate between Bucks and Mark Maclure in the last q before power made their charge. Maclure said power should go shorter and faster in the forward line. Bucks gave him all these logical reasons why it shouldn't happen. Stick to the structure. They went small and power came storming home. Footy instinct and smarts over structure and process was the way to go.
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. It reminds me of the football instincts of a Ken Hinkley and his forthright manner empowering his players to take the game on, all the while playing for each other might be what's lacking with the pies.
Let's not throw out LT and the methods employed but can we overlay it with more passion, magpie spirit and mateship? |
That highlighted passage is what I find most surprising and worrying about Buckley as coach.
It's completely the opposite to what I expected from him when appointed coach.
His constant selection of some players and comments about rewarding effort when it comes to team selection earlier in the year only adds wait to the Whateley observations.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
|
|
|
|
Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
|
| Post subject: | |
|
I'm over 2014, everything's been said to death.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
|
|
|
|
AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| uncanny wrote: |
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. |
This is the impression I get of the atmosphere at the club under Buckley. The Arthur comparison seems a good one and we have had a few homework gate like incidents. We can't really know, but it does seem that process and doing everything to the letter is being prioritised over enjoyment. It's a bit of a paradox because Mick was always seen as a hard taskmaster, but it's becoming clear that while he demanded 100% effort on the field he did give the players some space off it and always backed his players in non-footy issues. For me, this seems the fairer approach. I'm not comfortable with the club owning its players in every aspect. Let them play footy. If they do it well then what happens in between games is really not so much the club's business. Young men will resist rigid structures and those that accept them will not be the best.
_________________
Well done boys! |
|
|
|
|
Museman
Joined: 06 Jul 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| swoop42 wrote: | | uncanny wrote: | Gerard Whateley the ABC commentator has Nathan Buckley in the commentary box tomorrow, as he did last week. I hear Gerard say on radio earlier in the week what a privilege it was to have Bucks on hand during the call for the Hawks Power clash. He put it as having a hotline to the coaches box.
Gerard described a debate between Bucks and Mark Maclure in the last q before power made their charge. Maclure said power should go shorter and faster in the forward line. Bucks gave him all these logical reasons why it shouldn't happen. Stick to the structure. They went small and power came storming home. Footy instinct and smarts over structure and process was the way to go.
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. It reminds me of the football instincts of a Ken Hinkley and his forthright manner empowering his players to take the game on, all the while playing for each other might be what's lacking with the pies.
Let's not throw out LT and the methods employed but can we overlay it with more passion, magpie spirit and mateship? |
That highlighted passage is what I find most surprising and worrying about Buckley as coach.
It's completely the opposite to what I expected from him when appointed coach.
His constant selection of some players and comments about rewarding effort when it comes to team selection earlier in the year only adds wait to the Whateley observations. |
Me too, but when you analyse the man and his personality it sorta fits, his ability and his work ethic meant risk really wasn't needed the "process" worked for him ......
You would hope the debate and the fact that the opposing view nearly won the day might be a learning process itself....
With Bux though i'm not so sure. |
|
|
|
|
John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| swoop42 wrote: | | uncanny wrote: | Gerard Whateley the ABC commentator has Nathan Buckley in the commentary box tomorrow, as he did last week. I hear Gerard say on radio earlier in the week what a privilege it was to have Bucks on hand during the call for the Hawks Power clash. He put it as having a hotline to the coaches box.
Gerard described a debate between Bucks and Mark Maclure in the last q before power made their charge. Maclure said power should go shorter and faster in the forward line. Bucks gave him all these logical reasons why it shouldn't happen. Stick to the structure. They went small and power came storming home. Footy instinct and smarts over structure and process was the way to go.
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. It reminds me of the football instincts of a Ken Hinkley and his forthright manner empowering his players to take the game on, all the while playing for each other might be what's lacking with the pies.
Let's not throw out LT and the methods employed but can we overlay it with more passion, magpie spirit and mateship? |
That highlighted passage is what I find most surprising and worrying about Buckley as coach.
It's completely the opposite to what I expected from him when appointed coach.
His constant selection of some players and comments about rewarding effort when it comes to team selection earlier in the year only adds wait to the Whateley observations. |
process is very important when you're dealing with inexperience or learning the trade. following a process should produce the same outcome each and every time.
_________________
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| RudeBoy wrote: | | ThePieMind wrote: | In absence of establishing an enduring culture clubs just lurch from the Charisma and competence of one coach to the other.
The process is entirely hit or miss.
LT have achieved success at what are arguable the best 3 teams of the last decade - GEEL, SWANS and HAWKS.
If we are prepared to poach their support staff to improve our club then I don't see why using LT has come in for such criticism given the results at these clubs.
We will have teething problems of course and some players may resist but at the end of the day building a sustainably success culture is worth the effort.
Swans have proven a strong culture underpinns effective coaching transitions and that's what its all about. |
Yes, they have worked with the Hawks and Swans. I don't believe LT has worked with Geelong. I do know they've been working with the Bulldogs for several years, with not much success it seems. Obviously, it's a system which some people embrace, but equally there are those who find it intrusive and destructive. It partly depends on the personality types of those involved in it, which will vary from club to club.
I also know that LT were not involved at our club in 2010 when we won a flag. |
Actually Geelong is one of their more famous success stories. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/buying-into-the-philosophy-a-leadership-approach-20130919-2u2kx.html
FWIW I agree completely that it's not fool proof, it will work well for some people and be a disaster for others.
I also agree on the call for some kind of peace "Assuming we're all Collingwood supporters"
I personally seriously dislike the "perceptive fellow" and other labels, it's juvenile crap. I'd much prefer that people simply take on board a couple of key points.
1. everyone has an opinion. Fell free to exercise it but try not to abuse it.
2. Excessive negativity is a drainer. There are a number of avenues available to people with mental illness, use them, don't clog up a football bulletin board with your negativity. Consider others feelings. 3.
3. The kharma bus will get Trolls. Nothing surer.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| John Wren wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | uncanny wrote: | Gerard Whateley the ABC commentator has Nathan Buckley in the commentary box tomorrow, as he did last week. I hear Gerard say on radio earlier in the week what a privilege it was to have Bucks on hand during the call for the Hawks Power clash. He put it as having a hotline to the coaches box.
Gerard described a debate between Bucks and Mark Maclure in the last q before power made their charge. Maclure said power should go shorter and faster in the forward line. Bucks gave him all these logical reasons why it shouldn't happen. Stick to the structure. They went small and power came storming home. Footy instinct and smarts over structure and process was the way to go.
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. It reminds me of the football instincts of a Ken Hinkley and his forthright manner empowering his players to take the game on, all the while playing for each other might be what's lacking with the pies.
Let's not throw out LT and the methods employed but can we overlay it with more passion, magpie spirit and mateship? |
That highlighted passage is what I find most surprising and worrying about Buckley as coach.
It's completely the opposite to what I expected from him when appointed coach.
His constant selection of some players and comments about rewarding effort when it comes to team selection earlier in the year only adds wait to the Whateley observations. |
process is very important when you're dealing with inexperience or learning the trade. following a process should produce the same outcome each and every time. |
Such a simple concept but amazing how many people don't get it.
or worse, cling to a process like you say that is so dated that it's ridiculous.
_________________
Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
|
|
|
|
Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| stui magpie wrote: |
1. everyone has an opinion. Fell free to exercise it but try not to abuse it.
2. Excessive negativity is a drainer. There are a number of avenues available to people with mental illness, use them, don't clog up a football bulletin board with your negativity. Consider others feelings. 3.
3. The kharma bus will get Trolls. Nothing surer. |
Amusingly, I suffer from terrible anxiety and depression but am as far from the 'anti' crowd as you can get without joining the crusade against them. I don't subscribe to 'arsehole' as a chapter in the DSM. |
|
|
|
|
rocketronnie
Joined: 06 Sep 2006
Location: Reservoir
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| John Wren wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | | uncanny wrote: | Gerard Whateley the ABC commentator has Nathan Buckley in the commentary box tomorrow, as he did last week. I hear Gerard say on radio earlier in the week what a privilege it was to have Bucks on hand during the call for the Hawks Power clash. He put it as having a hotline to the coaches box.
Gerard described a debate between Bucks and Mark Maclure in the last q before power made their charge. Maclure said power should go shorter and faster in the forward line. Bucks gave him all these logical reasons why it shouldn't happen. Stick to the structure. They went small and power came storming home. Footy instinct and smarts over structure and process was the way to go.
Nathan is as honest as the day is long and meticulous in his planning. Embracing LT goes with this mindset. This is a great strength of his. I think we need more balance though. Footy clubs thrive on fun and characters. Remember the brat pack? It threw up problems every now and then but they got the job done and imbued a winning spirit into the team. Could we look at the Australian Cricket team's recent experience as a guide? The ultra professional, process driven methods of Mickey Arthur didn't cut it. Boof Lehmann comes in and relies on challenging and backing players to harness their talent, ensuring all players buy into the team spirit and play like mates. a key philosophy is that it's got to be fun if you are going to play well. It reminds me of the football instincts of a Ken Hinkley and his forthright manner empowering his players to take the game on, all the while playing for each other might be what's lacking with the pies.
Let's not throw out LT and the methods employed but can we overlay it with more passion, magpie spirit and mateship? |
That highlighted passage is what I find most surprising and worrying about Buckley as coach.
It's completely the opposite to what I expected from him when appointed coach.
His constant selection of some players and comments about rewarding effort when it comes to team selection earlier in the year only adds wait to the Whateley observations. |
process is very important when you're dealing with inexperience or learning the trade. following a process should produce the same outcome each and every time. |
On the other hand, its exactly what I expected when he became coach. Following a process rigidly might lead you to create some nice paint by numbers water colours of some flowers in a vase but it will never lead you to produce a Van Gogh, or any other masterpiece. That is one glaring difference between Buckley and Malthouse. Malthouse had intuition and process; Buckley's only got process. Leading Teams can't create intuitive thinking; I doubt it can even enhance it. Will LT help the players then? Such processes based on organisational/group psychology are more hit and miss than many give them credit. They work best when their workings aren't somehow revealed. They fail particularly when the message they promote contradicts or is undermined by the workings of the official working culture that has hired the change agents in the first place.
Apart from sacking Buckley (and okay this isn't the thread to advocate that I concede), the best solution is to surround him with more intuitive football thinkers and give them carte blanche to challenge his thinking whenever they see fit. Obviously in front of the players may not be appropriate but such a solution maybe the only way to get him to think outside his small process/effort driven box. Would it work? Maybe. Intuition isn't innate, it is learnt. Perhaps even Buckley could evolve under such a regime.
_________________
"Only the weak believe that what they do in battle is who they are as men" - Thomas Marshall - "Ironclad". |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
