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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| Post subject: The Long and the Short of It |  |
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Ok, enough conjecture on whether we are too short. Here are the facts.
Too short?
Games played in 2014 by players under 180cm tall.
No. Short, yes. But how can we be "too short" when we're right alongside competition pacesetters, Hawthorn? Even the supposedly big-bodied Fremantle are in our ball park. Then again we could follow Carlton in their anti-midgetry.
And the other end of the scale?
Games played in 2014 by players 190cm or taller.
Nothing to complain about there.
And finally, the averages.
Average height of entire squad, including rookies.
This is another arrow for those who want to claim we're too small, though again the Hawks are right there with us. Also the range of numbers here is not large and the average is across the entire squad including rookies, not just players that actually get onto the park.
So yes, on this occasion popular perception turns out to be accurate. We do play more midgets than most. It's hard to see this as a problem however when Hawthorn are doing just the same. Hopefully this means we can all now get on with loving our little folk without that nagging thought that they may be holding us back.
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SuperStar Beams 
Joined: 25 Sep 2009
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To me its not the height thats the worry, its the size of the player.
If you look at Hawks players they have a strong core and also well built for their size barring their young kids.
With us we mostly have young kids who still need to put on muscle and continue to build their core strength |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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We still have the equal highest number of sub 180cm players at 7 though with all the remaining prelim finalists outside of Hawthorn having no more than 4.
We are to short still IMO and don't have the class of Hawthorn to cover for it.
I bet you that most of all the Hawthorn short arses are better than ours at present.
Not surprised that the average heights are pretty close , they would be throughout the years with only a cm or two dividing them but we are still the 4th shortest (despite the club telling us we were the 4th tallest at the fan forum).
We seem to be a side with plenty of midgets but also quite a few talls yet funnily enough not quite enough around our average mark.
That's averages for you though.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Averages disguise the fact that there is not the spread of height through the field that there is with other teams, especially at the centre bounces where Pendles is our only tall midfielder. If you take one of our short midfielders out, say Blair, the spread looks a lot better. |
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Stinger
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: Canberra
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| swoop42 wrote: | We still have the equal highest number of sub 180cm players at 7 though with all the remaining prelim finalists outside of Hawthorn having no more than 4.
We are to short still IMO and don't have the class of Hawthorn to cover for it.
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Too right. The main problem, as I see it, is that we play 7 in our best 22!
Taylor Adams 179
Jarryd Blair 174
Sam Dwyer 177
Jamie Elliot 175
Ben Kennedy 174
Josh Thomas 176
Steele Sidebottom 180
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Kylie Martin 178 (is the other)
The very good height disadvantaged players usually compensate with an elite combination of pace, endurance, skill and contested ability. Think: Sam Mitchell – ok he’s not that quick but is elite kicking, elite endurance, wins contested ball, elite handball, high tackle count, elite reading the play.
Also the good ones from the top teams mostly have pace to burn: Hayden Ballantyne 174, Lachie Neale 176, Michael Walters 177, Danyle Pearce 178, Kieren Jack 178, Ben McGlynn 171, Harry Cunnigham 180, Braddley Hill 180, Paul Puopolo 173, Cyril Roili 177, Brent Harvey 167, Lindsay Thomas 180, Allen Christiansen 177, Matthew Stokes 175, Jarman Impey 178, Jake Neade 170, Matt White 180.
The problem with our lot is that they may tick the box in one particular area but they are deficient in others – mainly SPEED. For example:
Taylor Adams – Slow, can’t kick but good at the contested ball.
Jarryd Blair 174 – Slow, doesn’t hit the score board but provides good defensive pressure.
Sam Dwyer 177 – Finds plenty of the ball but I don’t recall him having blistering pace.
Ben Kennedy 174 – Currently lacks endurance, finds the footy through and can kick goals. Pace?
Josh Thomas 176 – Slow, finds the footy but decision making is sometime questionable.
Steele Sidebottom 180 – Not pacy but not slow, elite endurance, ball winner, elite both feet (if only he would do those dinky little chip kicks). – again size doesn’t matter because he is elite in more than one area.
Jamie Elliot 175 – He’s the exception. He has pace, great mark, kicks goals – size doesn’t actually matter.
Kylie Martin 178 – Haven’t seen him play enough so I won’t comment. |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| I figure if you can get to contests you're not slow and Adams, Dyer and Thomas all get to contests, while Martin hasn't played enough senior footy yet as to form a judgement. According to Buckley, Adams is a good decision maker, so I'll reserve judgement on that part of his game next year. Thomas and Dyer have already demonstrated they are good decision makers. |
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Stinger
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: Canberra
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| They don't get to every contest and they don't have that explosive pace out of a contest ala Judd nor do they find themselves able to use their "pace" to break and create space. |
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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We've gotta stop playing up and down the boundary line.
It'll never win us a flag.
We should be attacking the corridor
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| The long and the short of it is that it's fundamentally not about how big or small a team is but how good they are. |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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Forget size. it doesn't matter (although a tall never gets shorter as the game goes on).
The real issue is SKILLS.
In 2011 we were considered the most skilled side in the AFL. Just look back at some of the replays and see for yourself. Somehow in three years under a rookie coach we have lost every single one of those skills. Even Pendlebury is nowhere nearly as effective as he was.
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Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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neil 
Joined: 08 Sep 2005
Location: Queensland
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When Seedsman Freeman Scharenberg etc can hold down senior spots for the season then the height issue will disappear
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Carlscum 120 years being cheating scum |
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yin-YANG
Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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Thanks for the details An_Inkling. I don't think height is the issue -
body size with a young list...
lack of pace with the short guys - Elliot the exception - and maybe Freeman?
lack of skill - with the short guys and a few others.
and a gamelan that is not clear or effectively executed.
Getting close to our best list on the field may help several areas by clearly lets move onto the things we can control as Bux would probably say - the stretching rack is not going to help! 
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Love us or Hate us... we are Collingwood - you can't ignore the Mighty Magpies!!! |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Stinger wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | We still have the equal highest number of sub 180cm players at 7 though with all the remaining prelim finalists outside of Hawthorn having no more than 4.
We are to short still IMO and don't have the class of Hawthorn to cover for it.
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Too right. The main problem, as I see it, is that we play 7 in our best 22!
Taylor Adams 179
Jarryd Blair 174
Sam Dwyer 177
Jamie Elliot 175
Ben Kennedy 174
Josh Thomas 176
Steele Sidebottom 180
----------------------------------
Kylie Martin 178 (is the other)
The very good height disadvantaged players usually compensate with an elite combination of pace, endurance, skill and contested ability. Think: Sam Mitchell – ok he’s not that quick but is elite kicking, elite endurance, wins contested ball, elite handball, high tackle count, elite reading the play.
Also the good ones from the top teams mostly have pace to burn: Hayden Ballantyne 174, Lachie Neale 176, Michael Walters 177, Danyle Pearce 178, Kieren Jack 178, Ben McGlynn 171, Harry Cunnigham 180, Braddley Hill 180, Paul Puopolo 173, Cyril Roili 177, Brent Harvey 167, Lindsay Thomas 180, Allen Christiansen 177, Matthew Stokes 175, Jarman Impey 178, Jake Neade 170, Matt White 180.
The problem with our lot is that they may tick the box in one particular area but they are deficient in others – mainly SPEED. For example:
Taylor Adams – Slow, can’t kick but good at the contested ball.
Jarryd Blair 174 – Slow, doesn’t hit the score board but provides good defensive pressure.
Sam Dwyer 177 – Finds plenty of the ball but I don’t recall him having blistering pace.
Ben Kennedy 174 – Currently lacks endurance, finds the footy through and can kick goals. Pace?
Josh Thomas 176 – Slow, finds the footy but decision making is sometime questionable.
Steele Sidebottom 180 – Not pacy but not slow, elite endurance, ball winner, elite both feet (if only he would do those dinky little chip kicks). – again size doesn’t matter because he is elite in more than one area.
Jamie Elliot 175 – He’s the exception. He has pace, great mark, kicks goals – size doesn’t actually matter.
Kylie Martin 178 – Haven’t seen him play enough so I won’t comment. |
Well put
Great analysis.
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we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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| Stinger wrote: | | swoop42 wrote: | We still have the equal highest number of sub 180cm players at 7 though with all the remaining prelim finalists outside of Hawthorn having no more than 4.
We are to short still IMO and don't have the class of Hawthorn to cover for it.
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Too right. The main problem, as I see it, is that we play 7 in our best 22!
Taylor Adams 179
Jarryd Blair 174
Sam Dwyer 177
Jamie Elliot 175
Ben Kennedy 174
Josh Thomas 176
Steele Sidebottom 180
----------------------------------
Kylie Martin 178 (is the other)
The very good height disadvantaged players usually compensate with an elite combination of pace, endurance, skill and contested ability. Think: Sam Mitchell – ok he’s not that quick but is elite kicking, elite endurance, wins contested ball, elite handball, high tackle count, elite reading the play.
Also the good ones from the top teams mostly have pace to burn: Hayden Ballantyne 174, Lachie Neale 176, Michael Walters 177, Danyle Pearce 178, Kieren Jack 178, Ben McGlynn 171, Harry Cunnigham 180, Braddley Hill 180, Paul Puopolo 173, Cyril Roili 177, Brent Harvey 167, Lindsay Thomas 180, Allen Christiansen 177, Matthew Stokes 175, Jarman Impey 178, Jake Neade 170, Matt White 180.
The problem with our lot is that they may tick the box in one particular area but they are deficient in others – mainly SPEED. For example:
Taylor Adams – Slow, can’t kick but good at the contested ball.
Jarryd Blair 174 – Slow, doesn’t hit the score board but provides good defensive pressure.
Sam Dwyer 177 – Finds plenty of the ball but I don’t recall him having blistering pace.
Ben Kennedy 174 – Currently lacks endurance, finds the footy through and can kick goals. Pace?
Josh Thomas 176 – Slow, finds the footy but decision making is sometime questionable.
Steele Sidebottom 180 – Not pacy but not slow, elite endurance, ball winner, elite both feet (if only he would do those dinky little chip kicks). – again size doesn’t matter because he is elite in more than one area.
Jamie Elliot 175 – He’s the exception. He has pace, great mark, kicks goals – size doesn’t actually matter.
Kylie Martin 178 – Haven’t seen him play enough so I won’t comment. |
While I'd always prefer that we select a player of 180cm+ with great speed and fantastic skills over a shorter version of the same thing the sad reality is that there aren't actually that many of them, particularly when you look at where we've been taking our picks in the draft. I think the last 2 seasons we've actually traded into the early picks to improve our access to these types. It's a vexed question, keep pushing for sustained finals or bottom out and get some elite talent. Supporters don't seem too enthusiastic about bottoming out, and they equally don't appear happy to trade out guys to improve our draft position. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| collie dog wrote: | Forget size. it doesn't matter (although a tall never gets shorter as the game goes on).
The real issue is SKILLS.
In 2011 we were considered the most skilled side in the AFL. Just look back at some of the replays and see for yourself. Somehow in three years under a rookie coach we have lost every single one of those skills. Even Pendlebury is nowhere nearly as effective as he was. |
And in 2011 what happened again? We got given an involuntary phallic colonoscopy by Geelong 3 times that year including the GF. 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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