Ray Rice - one with the lot

[stui magpie]

For those who've missed it, the Ray Rice case in the USA is pretty much one with the lot as far as permutations and opinions go. I'm intrigued to see what the VPT denizens can make of this one.

Summary, as I understand it. I'm open to correction from anyone who's read into it in more detail.

NFL footballer, 173cm tall, 96kg, black

About 5 months ago he had an altercation with his then fiancee and was suspended by his employer for 2 games.

Shortly after the altercation, he and his fiancee married.

The altercation is captured here on video. http://www.tmz.com/2014/09/08/ray-rice-elevator-knockout-fiancee-takes-crushing-punch-video/ basically he knocks her out cold with one punch and has to drag her out of the elevator.

Police became involved, he went into a diversion/education program, no conviction, no court.

In the last day or two, since that video was released, his employer sacked him.

His wife has apparently claimed part of the blame for provoking the situation by slapping him first and doesn't want it going any further. Some people claim that her wishes should be honoured, others say she's exhibiting battered wife symptoms and her opinion can't be considered (basically devaluing her), others claim that people viewing that video are ghouls getting off on the violence and that by putting the video all over the internet that is perpetuating the injury to the victim.

So lets look at the kind of issues we have in this one.

Domestic violence and the penalties
Thoughts and wishes of the victim
Provocation as a defence for assault
Employers terminating employment for matters unrelated to their employment (that one's for David )

Probably a few others I've missed.

Scott Adams asks some interesting questions about it http://www.dilbert.com/blog/entry/the_nfl_punches_ray_rices_wife/#SB_Comments

An article that suggests that his employer only took serious action once the video was public, despite them having in months ago http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/10/ray-rice-elevator-video-sent-nfl


Thoughts? Where does your head go when you read this?

[think positive]

I'll never forget her head snapping back, her body arching as she was thrown backwards by the force of it, out cold well before she hit the floor. And then the callously thrown bucket of ice cold water to wake her up.

That's where my head goes

Run woman, run. Surely with this video out there, she can see it, people will comment, she doesn't have to take it, it's not a big dirty secret, get out girl and run. Don't look back. Things are different now, he can't get revenge, because everyone knows.
Is she staying because he's a footballer? Famous and rich? Stupid stupid stupid. You can't change him,he won't change for you,you can only change yourself.
Should he lose his job? He should be charged with assault, he should go to jail. And then he'd lose his job because he's not there to do it. Hopefully, someone will run through him on the footy field. A taste of his own medicine would be good. And yes I feel the same about all 1 punch heroes, male or female, lock them up.

Some of the comments on the second link are interesting. I didn't read them all, just pisses me off.

Spousal abuse effects all classes, but the poor, they can't escape. I got nothin, no solution, no punishment, no opinion I can give that's not tainted. All I can say is I hope the next home movie isn't her funeral.

[think positive]

On provocation, that's an interesting one. It's like some crazy little voice that makes you push your luck, when you know how it's going to go, like just to have the power for a moment. Like you have nothing to lose, no feeling left , so it doesn't matter.
But there is no provocation that leads to that video.

[David]

My thoughts:

1) Provocation: Perhaps there's a difference between a punch thrown in the midst of a fight (even one between a man and a woman) and one thrown at a random stranger, but we're really just talking about degrees of guilt. Assault like this should always be considered unlawful, and the assailant should always face legal consequences. One hopes that the court considered this case objectively and didn't just give him a light sentence for being a footballer.

2) Victim response: That's a tough one. I'm not quite sure where I stand on this—on one level, I kind of think it shouldn't matter what the victim thinks (a crime has been committed whether they think it was justified or not); but on another, I can see how it's good to have a mechanism that requires a victim to press charges. It'd be interesting if someone well-versed in legal matters (i.e. Pies4Shaw) could explain this a little better.

3) NFL response: So they initially gave a suspension without seeing the video, but now it's on TMZ (good lord, TMZ!) he deserves a harsher sanction? I think this is a perfect example of why it shouldn't be the place of sporting bodies to respond to real-world offences. In what world do they have the experience or qualifications to adjudicate on these matters? It just makes them look like PR-obsessed hypocrites, which is fitting, because that's what they are.

4) Should we watch the video?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/08/ray-rice-domestic-violence-video-janay-palmer-victim-blaming

We're being told a lot recently what we should and shouldn't watch! I think it's an interesting topic (hence the thread I posted the other week), but this is getting a little ridiculous, isn't it? My only cautionary advice is don't watch it on TMZ, 'cause there's an evil profiting-from-misery organisation that could do with a few less hits.

[swoop42]

He punched her.

She married him anyway.

Case closed your honor.

I have no sympathy for women like this with a world of options at there disposal to leave an abusive partner.

Just look at the case of Rihanna and Chris Brown for evidence of this level of stupidity.

[think positive]

[David]

[Pies4shaw]

Great running back. Probably should confine this to the field.

[regan is true fullback]

i was hoping there would be a discussion on this.

Some signs to look for in teen abusers.
How does he treat his mother?
Is he a safe driver?
Does he try to keep you away from friends and eventually your family?
Does he use really coarse language? (This was more of a sign back in the 60's but not so much today because almost everyone swears.)
Does he force sex on you?
Does he tell you that you are nothing without him or that no one else will want you?
Does he say he will kill you if you leave or kill himself if you do?
Does he twist you arm when you quarrel?
Does he ever put his hands around your neck? from Madame Noire Posted by Anonymous /September 9, 2014

[Pies4shaw]

Here's a domestic violence issue, this time alleged against a child, that is affecting one of the NFL's greatest players, the 2012 MVP Adrian Peterson. He's 9 to 12 months away from trial, it seems, but has been suspended indefinitely. It seems plain that the Vikings have bowed to public perceptions about this - until very recently, they were insisting he would be back playing this weekend. Peterson has been a one-man show in Minnesota for most of his career and suspending him might end the career of one of the finest players ever in circumstances where he might only receive a limited sanction from the Court, IF he's found guilty.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11543234/minnesota-vikings-admit-mistake-bar-adrian-peterson-all-activities

[think positive]

Bruises and wounds on a four year old, what a $£$%^%%$ hero.

I can't for the life of me figure out what a four year old could possibly do to earn that

[1061]

Their except list is a great idea to sort of park a player away from the team while still letting him be paid and be under control of the Club without that word suspension over his head.

[stui magpie]

Let me throw in a random one, not a fully formed thought yet but lets see what people think.

In the current age, should we have gender based issues? Why is it more wrong to hit a woman than a man?

Yep, in general men have a physical advantage but it doesn't hold true in all cases.

Should it just be that to hit someone is wrong and then insert the exceptions such as reasonable force is allowed for self defence.

In this Ray Rice case, if his partner was a gay man of similar height and physique, he'd be just as knocked out. Is that any less wrong?

Where I'm (clumsily) going here is, should the deciding factor be the balance of power, whether that be physical, mental, economic etc that is the deciding factor rather than gender?

(I think I'm channeling David or something, I may need to apply alcohol. Stat.)

[think positive]

[stui magpie]