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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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| sixpoints wrote: | | think positive wrote: | | ****, who's gunna win Wimbledon for us now |
Tim Henman? |
No, he's English. I think TP's right they could be in trouble, there aren't too many South Africans, Zimbabweans or Indians who can play tennis.
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Well done boys!
Last edited by AN_Inkling on Tue Sep 09, 2014 10:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| If I have to choose, I pick Indians who can play tennis. |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| stui magpie wrote: | ^
Good stuff, from my perspective basically DILLIGAF. They'll do what they do.
Personally why anyone would want to stay linked to the Poms has got me buggered, but hey each to their own,   |
My hubby agrees 
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| Morrigu wrote: | As you say mugwump there are pros and cons but don't try telling my hubby's family that - them that are still there and them that are here are dead set 100% for independence!
Mind you this is not surprising - the Scots hold a grudge as well as us Irish
By way of example anything with the Campbell name including the soup is banned from our house!
"Despite them" |
If you want to create a ruckus, you might remind them that the two banking collapses of 2008 were Royal Bank of Scotland, and Halifax
Bank of Scotland - the clue is in the name. If those two banks had not been underwritten by England, Scotland would be a smoking economic rubble by now. Scale matters in the modern world, and I think they are letting romance triumph over reason. But it is their choice, amd there are too many ties of identity between real people across the British Isles to let politics destroy the underlying union of values.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| sixpoints wrote: | This is a referendum for democracy.
Scotland has suffered from a deficit of democracy for decades. The present situation exemplifies it as good as . |
Maybe, but not too many people would see a flight to Europe and the incredibly unrepresentative European Parliament as a flight toward greater democracy. I suspect a YES vote is just a flight to a deeper sense of Scottishness - and there's naught wrong with that, if you are prepared to pay the price for it.
On democracy, at present, Scottish MPs vote on purely English questions in Westminster, whereas purely Scottish questions are reserved to the Scottish Parliament. And England - which voted Conservative by numbers in 2006 - was governed by Labour with a Scottish PM (Brown) until 2010 bcause of the Scottish seats you mention.
It's always good to look at both sides of this type of question.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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sixpoints
Joined: 27 Sep 2010
Location: Lulie Street
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| Mugwump wrote: | | Morrigu wrote: | As you say mugwump there are pros and cons but don't try telling my hubby's family that - them that are still there and them that are here are dead set 100% for independence!
Mind you this is not surprising - the Scots hold a grudge as well as us Irish
By way of example anything with the Campbell name including the soup is banned from our house!
"Despite them" |
If you want to create a ruckus, you might remind them that the two banking collapses of 2008 were Royal Bank of Scotland, and Halifax
Bank of Scotland - the clue is in the name. If those two banks had not been underwritten by England, Scotland would be a smoking economic rubble by now. Scale matters in the modern world, and I think they are letting romance triumph over reason. But it is their choice, amd there are too many ties of identity between real people across the British Isles to let politics destroy the underlying union of values. |
Whoa...that's a bit rich and a tad one-sided!
Sure RBS and HBOS went into meltdown due to terrible and profligate decision making. You are right to cite them as the biggest loss makers in the UK Financial Crisis, but what's with "the clue is in the name" stuff?
Those banks weren't alone - the first two UK Banks to go under were Northern Rock and Bradford/Bingley... any clues from their names?
Anyway under whose watch did this meltdown occur? Westminster's idiotic banking deregulation policies and their subsequent failure as a financial regulator set the tone for these events to happen.
Scotland was not underwritten by England, it was the Central Bank of UK that suplied the rescue funds - The Bank of England is the name for sure, but it's the equivalent of Australia's Reserve Bank, it aint just England's Bank.
Westminster set the lack of regulation, Westminster did no financial monitoring, Banks across many nations foundered (including England), but somehow the attitude is only the Scots need reminding of their part in the crisis.
No wonder the YES vote may win, it's to get rid of Westminster and The City - it is they at the governmental level who clearly showed their measure of culpability in the crisis. |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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| sixpoints wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | Morrigu wrote: | As you say mugwump there are pros and cons but don't try telling my hubby's family that - them that are still there and them that are here are dead set 100% for independence!
Mind you this is not surprising - the Scots hold a grudge as well as us Irish
By way of example anything with the Campbell name including the soup is banned from our house!
"Despite them" |
If you want to create a ruckus, you might remind them that the two banking collapses of 2008 were Royal Bank of Scotland, and Halifax
Bank of Scotland - the clue is in the name. If those two banks had not been underwritten by England, Scotland would be a smoking economic rubble by now. Scale matters in the modern world, and I think they are letting romance triumph over reason. But it is their choice, amd there are too many ties of identity between real people across the British Isles to let politics destroy the underlying union of values. |
Whoa...that's a bit rich and a tad one-sided!
Sure RBS and HBOS went into meltdown due to terrible and profligate decision making. You are right to cite them as the biggest loss makers in the UK Financial Crisis, but what's with "the clue is in the name" stuff?
Those banks weren't alone - the first two UK Banks to go under were Northern Rock and Bradford/Bingley... any clues from their names?
Anyway under whose watch did this meltdown occur? Westminster's idiotic banking deregulation policies and their subsequent failure as a financial regulator set the tone for these events to happen.
Scotland was not underwritten by England, it was the Central Bank of UK that suplied the rescue funds - The Bank of England is the name for sure, but it's the equivalent of Australia's Reserve Bank, it aint just England's Bank.
Westminster set the lack of regulation, Westminster did no financial monitoring, Banks across many nations foundered (including England), but somehow the attitude is only the Scots need reminding of their part in the crisis.
No wonder the YES vote may win, it's to get rid of Westminster and The City - it is they at the governmental level who clearly showed their measure of culpability in the crisis. |
My point was not that the Scots were disproportionately responsible for the crisis - you're right that the English banks were just as rubbish. It's just that that both were domiciled in Scotland (and RBS was notably Scottish-managed), and both would have been the responsibility of a Scottish government and the Scottish people - as In Iceland, as in Ireland, etc.
Fair enough, you may be correct that the Scottish National Party would have been wise and prudent enough to see the impending financial crisis and run a better banking regulatory system than most of the Western world, but it's more likely that they would not have done so. When banking failures happen, bailouts are necessary, and national scale is vital. It's just a great case of the risks that the Scots are runniing, here. And it's why most of the major banks and insurance companies are publicly making plans to move south of the border in case the vote is yes.
As an aside, both the Pm and Chancellor of the Exchequeur at Westminster in 2008 were Scottish. Both performed admirably in the crisis, whatever their failures leading up to it.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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stui magpie 
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| sixpoints wrote: | This is a referendum for democracy.
Scotland has suffered from a deficit of democracy for decades. The present situation exemplifies it as good as any.
Present Westminster Government = Conservative.
Scottish seats held by Conservatives 1 out of 59!
It was even worse in the 1980-90's. Then in a Tory Westminster government, Scotland elected ZERO Conservatives. Scotland is not fairly represented in Westminster. It is tied to an electoral system that ignores its wishes.
The democratic response to the non represenation in Westminster is to hold the most democratic of all referendums. All Scots, Brits, Commonwealth & E.U residents of Scotland over the age if 16 can vote. This is broad based inclusive democracy in action.
This swell of democracy has completely outflanked the political class of the establishment centred on SE England.
The main British media (from London) ignored the referendum as an
inconsequential side show. The Westminster power brokers did the same. So smug were they in the belief in the NO vote.
The NO vote marshalled its forces into the 'Better Together' campaign. Ex-
politicians, captains of industry, celebrities, sport stars all ran the race. The main focus was a fear campaign - economic oblivion, stock market crash,
Scotland will not be linked to the pound, the E.U won't let Scotland in, border
crossings will be set up, Scotland will be flooded with E.U immigrants.....
But the longer the campaign went, the more the YES vote grew. The NO vote propaganda was increasingly seen as patronizing and negative - "trust us down here..we know what's best for you"
But the YES vote kept growing.
The YES focus was upon true democratic representation, the ending of ties with the ludicrously undemocratic House of Lords, an end to deployment of nuclear weapons on Scottish land/seas, full control of taxation.
The British PM David Cameron engaged in the debate, but his Tory
government only has 1 seat in Scotland. His intervention is rightfully
dismissed - his party represents no one in Scotland. Labour leader Ed Milliband joins in - he needs all those Scottish seats in Westminster, but he too is seen as a moribund political manouverer whose real interest is in England. So no one's listening. So now it's panic.
Now it's news item number one across Britain.
Now the national (London based) media that ignored the situation is screaming "10 days left to save the country".
But now it's too late for the politicians due to purdah. Purdah is the 28 day black out of new policies & programs leading up to any vote. So as Scotland
turns, the Westminster boys who had years to mount their case are now silenced. So they bring in a proxy - ex PM & retired politician Gordon Brown.
Brown proclaims if the Scots vote NO, then Westminster will approve further devolution of powers as a measure of consolation. This has gone down like a ton of bricks. It is seen as a cynically late and desperate act. An act so late
that no one actually in power can make it. It is a late bribe by proxy.
It appears that vote will be close, but that it will be YES.
The ham fisted NO campaign is increasingly convincing Scots of the distain and reactionary ignorance that Scotland evokes from Westminster.
What all this means for the rest of the UK, will be their decision. It will
certainly pose issues particularly for Northern Ireland.
But if the Union is no longer relevant and not providing for its constituent
parts, then it's up to each member to determine its own future.
The U.K. itself is due for a national election next year. If Scotland leaves,
then Cameron will be gone, blamed as the Tory PM who could not maintain the 300 year old Union. Labour will be minus its 50 Scottish seats and Milliband has strongly come out as a Unionist. He too looks lost.
The concern would be an English nationalist backlash, the UKIP polled well in the last Euro elections and if they rally support from nationlists, National
Front and other assorted loonies they may grab seats. So a backlash swing to the right in England would be no surprise.
But that's a matter for the English....
For Australia, it may focus again the conversation on an Australian Head of State. |
Hey that's a pretty good write up, thanks for that. one criticism, WTF did you write it on? The formatting is ridiculous and hard to read.
Anyway. the main thing I took out of that was the political leanings. If Scotland goes it would seem that they will have a left leaning government, while their departure would make it even harder for the English Labor party to regain power without the scottish seats. Would that be a fair summary?
If so it would promise to be an interesting first few years with the countries previously governed as one having very different governments.
Any clues what would happen to Scottish assets that had been sold off by England? Would they be able to nationalise them if they got a left enough government ?
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Anyhow. |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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No comment on this or any other local political matter; I'm far more interested in the local ales at the moment!
Not to mention I have little idea about the place at this point.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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"O would, ere I had seen the day
That Treason thus could sell us ...." |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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"..David Cameron is less popular than Windows 8. Hes the physical embodiment of everything a fair percentage of Scottish people hate: a ruddy-faced old Etonian walking around like he just inherited the place, sporting a permanently shiny chin as though hes just enjoyed a buttery crumpet in front of the cricket. Worse still, hes a lizard..."
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/sep/08/scottish-independence-david-cameron-no-campaign-windows-8
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Windows 8 is great!
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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In the words of an Irish relative;
There will always be an England as long as there's a Scotland to fight their battles; and there will always be a Scotland as long as England pays their bills.
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Pi = Infinite = Collingwood = Always
Floreat Pica |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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^
heard someone talking today, radio I think, the comment was that the Scots are likely to have a left leaning government, lots of progressive reforms and stuffed economy in their future.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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