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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| nomadjack wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | Mugwump wrote: | | One more perspective on this. For me, the real problem is that H is trying to impose his personal / political views on the club. Let's say that another player has strong political views opposed to immigration, or views Anzac Day as a militarist event. Would that player be justified in taking offence at fairly mild remarks made by those with different views, and threatening to resign? . |
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You're wrong
He was trying to insist professional Australian workplace practises be enforced! |
Agree completely. But there is also a professional and productive way to go about raising concerns. By most accounts, including his manager's H overstepped the mark and not for the first time. While H has every right to insist on a professional workplace and club culture the club has every right to insist its players meet expected standards of behaviour as well and to move players on that can't meet those standards. |
Well said, and can be applied to many other threads where player behaviour is discussed.
Respect is always a two way street.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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Guys getting experimental injections into the stomach, and Collingwood is the unsafe workplace.
Coz there was this poster see...
Why aren't there any openly gay footballers?
I reckon our resident representatives would say it's the unsafe environment caused by a homophobic culture.
We've had a few guys come out and reveal their depression, though, haven't we? And they did it in an environment of stigmatisation, disrespect and casually inappropriate humour. Blazed a bit of a trail, a few blokes have. Hats off to them.
What's the difference?
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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| RudeBoy wrote: |
However, I am disappointed at the way he has chosen to do so by attacking good people at our club, on numerous occasions, when not everyone sees things the way he does. I'm beginning to think he is somewhat of an egotist. Somehow it's got to be about him all the time. |
Forgive me for the edit 'Rudeboy' but this is the section I wish to comment upon.
The stand H is taking here and the stand he took before are not all about him. He is taking a stand on an important social issue. Many great men have done so in the past on issues such as racial equality, women's rights and gender equality. Their stands are not always popular in the mainstream media or the general population.
If we ever needed a reminder of the stresses young gay people face in society, we had a perfect opportunity to reflect recently with Ian Thorpe. Here was one of the greatest athletes the world had ever seen, fretting and worrying about letting his fans down because he was gay. If somebody as famous and admired as Thorpe was filled with terror, imagine how lesser beings must be feeling.
H may not always articulate his feelings in a way that many of us can understand and he may upset the applecart, but he will be admired in years to come as a man of courage; after all, the easiest thing to do would be to turn a blind eye and say nothing.
I think he may be gone from Collingwood and this is the view of insiders, but I hope that a great club like ours can see a way accommodate H and lead the way in the AFL. H is a Premiership Hero and I think he's earned the right to ask the hard questions.
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After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | Guys getting experimental injections into the stomach, and Collingwood is the unsafe workplace.
Coz there was this poster see...
Why aren't there any openly gay footballers?
I reckon our resident representatives would say it's the unsafe environment caused by a homophobic culture.
We've had a few guys come out and reveal their depression, though, haven't we? And they did it in an environment of stigmatisation, disrespect and casually inappropriate humour. Blazed a bit of a trail, a few blokes have. Hats off to them.
What's the difference? |
Rather than asking a confrontational question like that directed at those in the middle of it all maybe we should be asking everyone involved,
Why is there a difference? |
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The Prototype 
Paint my face with a good-for-nothin smile.
Joined: 23 Apr 2003
Location: Hobart, Tasmania
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| Breadcrawl wrote: | Guys getting experimental injections into the stomach, and Collingwood is the unsafe workplace.
Coz there was this poster see...
Why aren't there any openly gay footballers?
I reckon our resident representatives would say it's the unsafe environment caused by a homophobic culture.
We've had a few guys come out and reveal their depression, though, haven't we? And they did it in an environment of stigmatisation, disrespect and casually inappropriate humour. Blazed a bit of a trail, a few blokes have. Hats off to them.
What's the difference? |
You don't generally see people bashed, killed, and treated pretty badly for revealing you battle depression.
I get what you are saying, I don't see why someone being gay or straight has to be such a major issue it doesn't affect the performance on the field or impact anyone else's lives but this is the world we live in. I am pretty sure any footballer who reveals they are gay will have the players support, and the AFL support because there is a bond, but I think it's more to do with the public reaction, and such.
Considering there are still racial taunts at players in this day and age I just cannot imagine how badly an openly gay player in the AFL is going to go.
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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My question wasn't directed specifically at those 'in the middle of it all'.
It was directed at anyone who might have an answer.
You changed the question to 'why is there a difference?', which implies that you accept that there is a difference.
Before I answer your question, do you want to answer mine, hopefully without just turning it into another question? That's quite evasive IMO.
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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MJ23
Joined: 28 Feb 2011
Location: Sydney
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Its not an unsafe workplace unless the club condoned it or took no action.
Action taken with the individual responsible could take many forms NOT including dismissal and is private and confidential with that individual.
All the club need to is show that there are regs / rules in place and action is taken.
H has NO say in what punishment should or shouldn't be handed out.
What he should do is decide if he wants to stay under those conditions or go.
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"Even when Im old and gray, I wont be able to play but Ill still love the game"
Michael Jordan |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | | RudeBoy wrote: |
However, I am disappointed at the way he has chosen to do so by attacking good people at our club, on numerous occasions, when not everyone sees things the way he does. I'm beginning to think he is somewhat of an egotist. Somehow it's got to be about him all the time. |
Forgive me for the edit 'Rudeboy' but this is the section I wish to comment upon.
The stand H is taking here and the stand he took before are not all about him. He is taking a stand on an important social issue. Many great men have done so in the past on issues such as racial equality, women's rights and gender equality. Their stands are not always popular in the mainstream media or the general population.
If we ever needed a reminder of the stresses young gay people face in society, we had a perfect opportunity to reflect recently with Ian Thorpe. Here was one of the greatest athletes the world had ever seen, fretting and worrying about letting his fans down because he was gay. If somebody as famous and admired as Thorpe was filled with terror, imagine how lesser beings must be feeling.
H may not always articulate his feelings in a way that many of us can understand and he may upset the applecart, but he will be admired in years to come as a man of courage; after all, the easiest thing to do would be to turn a blind eye and say nothing.
I think he may be gone from Collingwood and this is the view of insiders, but I hope that a great club like ours can see a way accommodate H and lead the way in the AFL. H is a Premiership Hero and I think he's earned the right to ask the hard questions. |
I understand where you're coming from Neil and as I said, I too share my admiration for H for taking a stand on these issues. That should not be contested. I am proud of him asking the hard questions. We all should be proud of him for that. My issue with him is the way he has done it, by apparently abusing people at the club, whom do not respond to his speeches in the way he wants them too. He will end up a very lonely individual if he continues down this path. I find it all very sad. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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^ Yeah, I feel sad for H and sad for the club, to think it had to come to this, damned if I know. sigh.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Sorry. . . |
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watt price tully 
Joined: 15 May 2007
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"Nicks Welcoming Committee" for H. The rules:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJkO-EKRVd0
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| That's not going to end well, is it, WPT? |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | That's not going to end well, is it, WPT? |
On the contrary P4S
It ends like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_WRFJwGsbY
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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skaman
One step beyond.......
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Townsville via Melbourne
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Kind of ironic. Graham Chapman was himself a "(I'm a dinosaur)"(sic). Seems like he could take a laugh at himself. 
how come it said dinosaur when I typed P.O.O.F.T.A ?
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Enjoy yourself. Its later than you think! |
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watt price tully
Joined: 15 May 2007
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| skaman wrote: |
Kind of ironic. Graham Chapman was himself a "(I'm a dinosaur)"(sic). Seems like he could take a laugh at himself.
....... |
That's the nub: take a laugh at ourselves to see how silly the reactive histrionics have been.
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“I even went as far as becoming a Southern Baptist until I realised they didn’t keep ‘em under long enough” Kinky Friedman |
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