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Neil Appleby 
Joined: 11 Feb 1998
Location: Melbourne
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| Post subject: Patrick Smith on Buckley/McGuire/Malthouse & Hird/Thomps |  |
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/when-puch-came-to-shove-mcguire-made-right-call-for-magpies/story-e6frg7uo-1227039306349
A very good article from Patrick Smith comparing Collingwood 2009 to Essendon 2014.
"There is a surety and composure about Buckley that oddly is missing with the veteran Malthouse. Buckley has 19 players on his injury list, catastrophic when he is rebuilding his side with youth.
Malthouse appears almost lost as he tries to pick exactly where his team is placed for future success. He has crossed the Rubicon so many times he might just be seasick. There is no doubt McGuire made the right call. We wish Little good luck when it comes to his turn."
_________________
After the epic draw comes the decisive knockout!
Collingwood rules the world again and Mick Malthouse fulfils his destiny with the twenty ten premiership and can you hear the people sing! |
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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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| Post subject: Re: Patrick Smith on Buckley/McGuire/Malthouse & Hird/Th | |
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| Neil Appleby wrote: | http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/when-puch-came-to-shove-mcguire-made-right-call-for-magpies/story-e6frg7uo-1227039306349
A very good article from Patrick Smith comparing Collingwood 2009 to Essendon 2014.
"There is a surety and composure about Buckley that oddly is missing with the veteran Malthouse. Buckley has 19 players on his injury list, catastrophic when he is rebuilding his side with youth.
Malthouse appears almost lost as he tries to pick exactly where his team is placed for future success. He has crossed the Rubicon so many times he might just be seasick. There is no doubt McGuire made the right call. We wish Little good luck when it comes to his turn." |
Patrick never seems to miss hitting the nail on the head.
I've said earlier Eddie saw something in 2008/09 that convinced him Malthouse wasn't going to be the long term future of the club.
IMO MM traded for 2010/11/12 so he could have the best chance to win a flag and hopefully force Eddie to change his mind.
Hence the need to revitalize our list now. Buckley believes in what he is doing be it right or wrong time will tell.
As I've said before I'm more inclined to cut inexperienced kids some slack when they play poorly than an experienced player.
All I want to see is a fit list for the coach to be able to show us his plan and style and then we can sit in judgement of his ability.
As for Essendon I think they are facing a very testing time in a few weeks. For all the talk of Hird coming back and bomber graciously moving aside and relinquishing all input is a recipe for disaster IMO.
Bomber seems to have got the best out of this bunch considering the pressure the players have been under especially the past 2 months since the show cause notices issued.
He clearly has he players playing for him and I believe there will be a few of them second guessing there loyalty to Hird after all it was him who put them in this situation. |
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MagpieMad 
One in, All in!!
Joined: 15 Jan 2001
Location: -37.798563,144.996641
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paywall
_________________
Pain heals, Chicks dig scars, Glory..... lasts forever! |
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MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
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| Wish I had the same confidence in Buckley that Patrick Smith seems to have. Buckley is a deep analyser of the game, seems to sum the situation up on the ground on match day and move players around accordingly. He communicates well with the media and supporters and is more approachable than Mick Malthouse. However at this point of time he doesn't have the intuition of a coach of say Malthouse, Clarkson or Hinkley. An intuitive coach would have moved heaven and earth to get Luke Ball to play one more season. An intuitive coach would not have persisted with playing White in the ruck or with playing Adams for long periods out of position. And an intuitive coach having admitted that the game has changed into aerobic power running to both ends of the ground, wouldn't have instructed players to hang off the contests to cover space. Having said that, intuition comes with maturity so there's still time to adjust to Buckley's game plan with fitter more responsive players with one more year coaching to Buckley's instructions. |
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Stinger
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
Location: Canberra
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Google the title and follow the link from there. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Post subject: Re: Patrick Smith on Buckley/McGuire/Malthouse & Hird/Th | |
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| qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Neil Appleby wrote: | http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/when-puch-came-to-shove-mcguire-made-right-call-for-magpies/story-e6frg7uo-1227039306349
A very good article from Patrick Smith comparing Collingwood 2009 to Essendon 2014.
"There is a surety and composure about Buckley that oddly is missing with the veteran Malthouse. Buckley has 19 players on his injury list, catastrophic when he is rebuilding his side with youth.
Malthouse appears almost lost as he tries to pick exactly where his team is placed for future success. He has crossed the Rubicon so many times he might just be seasick. There is no doubt McGuire made the right call. We wish Little good luck when it comes to his turn." |
Patrick never seems to miss hitting the nail on the head.
I've said earlier Eddie saw something in 2008/09 that convinced him Malthouse wasn't going to be the long term future of the club.
IMO MM traded for 2010/11/12 so he could have the best chance to win a flag and hopefully force Eddie to change his mind.
Hence the need to revitalize our list now. Buckley believes in what he is doing be it right or wrong time will tell.
As I've said before I'm more inclined to cut inexperienced kids some slack when they play poorly than an experienced player.
All I want to see is a fit list for the coach to be able to show us his plan and style and then we can sit in judgement of his ability.
As for Essendon I think they are facing a very testing time in a few weeks. For all the talk of Hird coming back and bomber graciously moving aside and relinquishing all input is a recipe for disaster IMO.
Bomber seems to have got the best out of this bunch considering the pressure the players have been under especially the past 2 months since the show cause notices issued.
He clearly has he players playing for him and I believe there will be a few of them second guessing there loyalty to Hird after all it was him who put them in this situation. |
You see I've never understood this line of thinking and God knows I was no longer a Mick supporter by 2009 so heaven forbid I defend him.
It's a similar line to one trotted out by Pert but surely it does Malthouse a disservice.
Surely any coach, succession plan or not could see at the end of 2009 that we needed a better ruckman and a quality extractor.
We here at Nick's certainly could so while I do feel the succession plan got the very best out of Mick I've never thought it forced him to draft for the best chance of immediate success.
Even if it did why shouldn't he?
For me he would have derelict in his duty as senior coach if he had done anything else and a reason right there why he should have been dismissed.
You make the best of what you have today because there is no guarantees that what comes tomorrow will be any better.
You strike while the iron is hot (we made the prelim in 2009, semi in 2008, prelim in 2007), you take your best shot when it comes and hope for the best when it does.
For me we seem to have again fallen into that old Collingwood mindest of a premiership is just another year away.
No Collingwood it might take another 20 years.
I for one say **** that for a joke.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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swoop42
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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Since when is push spelt with a c?
Man, sack the editor.
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He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Post subject: Re: Patrick Smith on Buckley/McGuire/Malthouse & Hird/Th | |
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| swoop42 wrote: | | qldmagpie67 wrote: | | Neil Appleby wrote: | http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/opinion/when-puch-came-to-shove-mcguire-made-right-call-for-magpies/story-e6frg7uo-1227039306349
A very good article from Patrick Smith comparing Collingwood 2009 to Essendon 2014.
"There is a surety and composure about Buckley that oddly is missing with the veteran Malthouse. Buckley has 19 players on his injury list, catastrophic when he is rebuilding his side with youth.
Malthouse appears almost lost as he tries to pick exactly where his team is placed for future success. He has crossed the Rubicon so many times he might just be seasick. There is no doubt McGuire made the right call. We wish Little good luck when it comes to his turn." |
Patrick never seems to miss hitting the nail on the head.
I've said earlier Eddie saw something in 2008/09 that convinced him Malthouse wasn't going to be the long term future of the club.
IMO MM traded for 2010/11/12 so he could have the best chance to win a flag and hopefully force Eddie to change his mind.
Hence the need to revitalize our list now. Buckley believes in what he is doing be it right or wrong time will tell.
As I've said before I'm more inclined to cut inexperienced kids some slack when they play poorly than an experienced player.
All I want to see is a fit list for the coach to be able to show us his plan and style and then we can sit in judgement of his ability.
As for Essendon I think they are facing a very testing time in a few weeks. For all the talk of Hird coming back and bomber graciously moving aside and relinquishing all input is a recipe for disaster IMO.
Bomber seems to have got the best out of this bunch considering the pressure the players have been under especially the past 2 months since the show cause notices issued.
He clearly has he players playing for him and I believe there will be a few of them second guessing there loyalty to Hird after all it was him who put them in this situation. |
You see I've never understood this line of thinking and God knows I was no longer a Mick supporter by 2009 so heaven forbid I defend him.
It's a similar line to one trotted out by Pert but surely it does Malthouse a disservice.
Surely any coach, succession plan or not could see at the end of 2009 that we needed a better ruckman and a quality extractor.
We here at Nick's certainly could so while I do feel the succession plan got the very best out of Mick I've never thought it forced him to draft for the best chance of immediate success.
Even if it did why shouldn't he?
For me he would have derelict in his duty as senior coach if he had done anything else and a reason right there why he should have been dismissed.
You make the best of what you have today because there is no guarantees that what comes tomorrow will be any better.
You strike while the iron is hot (we made the prelim in 2009, semi in 2008, prelim in 2007), you take your best shot when it comes and hope for the best when it does.
For me we seem to have again fallen into that old Collingwood mindest of a premiership is just another year away.
No Collingwood it might take another 20 years.
I for one say **** that for a joke. |
Look, I have no idea whether Buckley can or can't coach Collingwood to a flag. I am, however, quite certain that his strategy of getting lots of elite young talent into the list is the right way to go.
How many old-VFL/AFL lists have ever had multiple premierships in them? It was unprecedented to get a flag with so many modest picks and former-rookies. Great result - whoever achieved it and however it was achieved - but many of the out and out class players from the 2010/2011 team fell away with the passing of time. We've been left with the rump of the team. The players Buckley has kept from that team are either high-quality players (Pendlebury, Beams, Sidebottom, Cloke, Reid and so on) with several top-notch seasons likely still left in them or players we weren't likely to get a great trade for (Blair, Toovey, Goldsack, H etc). He moved on Dawes, Wellingham and Heater for younger players. That looks to me to have been the right call (even though Heater was - and remains - my favourite modern-era Collingwood player). The thing that killed the Club after 1990 was the failure to regenerate. This time, that didn't happen. The side loaded up and won in 2010. It should have gone back-to-back in 2011. It didn't. Buckley has since set about trying to bridge the gap in class.
I'm not troubled by that. Unlike a lot of Collingwood supporters who look back fondly upon Hafey's time in charge, I actually hated that era. It was awful watching the side not quite make it because it wasn't quite good enough. The clubs that win multiple flags have, over my life-time, at least, boasted a number of genuine superstars. The ones that kept going longest have generally been lucky enough to be able to replace those superstars. Collingwood's 2010 team didn't have that many. It had a few great players and whole lot of role players. What 2011 teaches is that you can get lucky with that once (probably, in fact, because the team we played in 2010 was also full of role players and its great players were fewer in number than ours) but, generally speaking, class wins out. If we emerge with a better football side over the next couple of seasons, that's fine with me. If we don't, it won't this time (for a change) be for want of trying. |
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David 
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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In case anyone's ever bothered to read one of his articles (I wouldn't blame you if you haven't), Patrick Smith has a ridiculous vendetta against Malthouse. I'm glad he's optimistic, but, honestly, I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt.
_________________
All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| David wrote: | | In case anyone's ever bothered to read one of his articles (I wouldn't blame you if you haven't), Patrick Smith has a ridiculous vendetta against Malthouse. I'm glad he's optimistic, but, honestly, I'd take anything he says with a grain of salt. |
I didn't think much of it... take it, leave it, blah.
As for 2011, I still believe to this very day that we only lost that GF because of all the angst that was going on for weeks and weeks before it, you can maybe also contribute to a very minor part in heater being underdone due to that heavy suspension he had received and how that also upset the apple cart in our backline. Shit we played like crap and still only had it taken away from us in the last quarter.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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Most football journalists have nothing of any merit to offer on any subject. They're just barrackers like the rest of us. Why should this fellow be any different?
But hey, let's focus on the journalist, rather than the merit or otherwise of the Club's strategic direction. |
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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Smith is a known Malthouse hater.
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Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
You like this. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Defender wrote: | | Smith is a known Malthouse hater. |
Who does he follow?
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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Patrick Smith is the only sports journalist who calls a spade a spade.
Great article and on the money. |
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35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
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| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: |
As for 2011, I still believe to this very day that we only lost that GF because of all the angst that was going on for weeks and weeks before it, you can maybe also contribute to a very minor part in heater being underdone due to that heavy suspension he had received and how that also upset the apple cart in our backline. Shit we played like crap and still only had it taken away from us in the last quarter. |
This is one of my most firmly held beliefs. During the last part of 2011 I was convinced Buckley would front the media and announce his willingness to put the 'succession" aside for a couple of seasons as it would be simply foolish to drop the most successful & innovative coach in the game. Right up to GF day I prayed this would be the case. When it didn't happen I made plans to be away for the game as I knew without a single doubt that we'd lose. What I didn't know at the time was the depth of the rancour between Mick & Bucks. Footage I saw later made it clear they already disliked each other. If I live to be 150 I'll still wonder what would've happened if We'd won back to back flags. Would any sporting club toss away a coach with back to back flags? It's surely never happened in any sport. The other thing I'll wonder about until my dying day is what transpired between Mick & Eddie. I know many here despise the guy, but he was the form coach. He obviously wanted to stay, but his reaction to what followed convinced me that he felt he had been betrayed, lied to. It wasn't the reaction of a guy who knew what was coming, despite MM's fame as a 'grumpy old man', he never "went off" like that before, and has been a mere shadow of the great coach of 2011 since.
My guess is that Eddie promised him something then pulled the rug out. Did he promise him 2 more years if he got the boys over the line, or close to it? I don't know, but I know something like that happened. I also know the AFL pulled out every stop to prevent a Collingwood back to back. The umpiring grew worse, we lost the free kick count when we were winning by an average of 70 points, we played nothing but top 8 teams while Geelong played none but 'lower down's, and how the hell did the AfL find out about Heater's $10 bet?
Let's remember that every pundit, including this dickhead, congratulated Collingwood on sticking to the contract. What does that tell you? They were happier than pigs in poop watching ourselves blow a few toes off.
It was the dumbest decision ever made by any sporting club in the history of the game, actually, any game! I will never be convinced (absent new evidence) that we wouldn't have won 2011 & 2012 at least. You may say that the game changed, but Mick would've changed too, he had the best recruiters and fitness staff in the game. He was at the forefront of new tactics, new game plans, and new technologies, and what's MUCH more, he had the guys 100% behind him. He understood that players are individuals in different places in their lives, he understood that what worked for 30 year olds doesn't necessarily work for 20 year olds, and he knew how to get the best from each. His performance at Carlton has been that of a bitter, angry man who was stabbed in the back. It doesn't reflect on what he would've done if he'd been allowed to stay with "his boys". He never had seasons curtailed due to injuries, though he faced them every year, and kept bringing in kids who looked like future guns. How good would the likes of Fasolo, Keefe, Thomas, and Heater become?
Never, since 1930, has a team had a better shot at 4 in a row. Eddie bet that shot on Buckley and lost. Case closed!
Now the future holds the likelihood of years in the wilderness. Buckley has many fine attributes, but the most important ones for coaching an AFL side are absent. Without the players behind him, believing in him 100%, he cannot succeed. I tipped us to finish 8th this year, it turned out even worse than I thought, at this stage I see us about 10th-12th next year. (we still have some truly great players). If I'm wrong I will very happily get on here and post about my stupidity and cop every bit of abuse you guys can muster.
I won't be.
_________________
"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
Visit My Website! |
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