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jackcass Cancer



Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:53 am
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GoWoodsmen wrote:
So where we were you "perceptive fellow"? Either not one of you attended or not one of you had the balls to stand up and defame Bucks and the team the way you do on here. Gutless (if you were there!)

Just to clarify one point about the high altitude training that no one seems to have added. Eddie chimed in after the explanation from Davoren (sorry not sure on spelling) to say that the players association stuffed the altitude training up because of the mandatory 6 week break at the end of the season. The way I read. Devoren's comments wasn't that altitude training had been debunked but more that the performance benefit, if any, was negligible compared with the other methods they're now employing. Oh and there was the small matter of the fact that the overseas trips were costing the club close to $500,000. Obviously the cost, benefit analysis didn't work in its favour.

In regards to those bagging out Devoren's explanation on the hamstring injuries it seems that everyone here has failed to acknowledge that a) he didn't avoid the topic, b) that while we had 15 hamstring injuries (comp average is 10-12 per club I think) that resulted in 48 missed games, 2 players (Freeman and ...???) took 34 of those games between them!!! And c) I challenge anyone to find a single specialist who can point to one factor and say 'yep, that's what caused your hamstring to pop'. oh... And d) he acknowledged that fatigue from the 30% increase in training load almost definitely contributed to the late season spate of hammys.

Found that amazing - he upped out training volume by 30% this year - and yet that only places us 6th in the competition for training volume - eg. We don't run anywhere enough!!!!!!

I asked why Special K hadn't been called up towards the end of the year. asked what was he doing wrong or missing. Said his body was still sore and gave the Cats game as an example where he had 16 touches in the first qtr and then only 2 for the rest of the game. He agreed that the defensive side if his game doesn't come naturally but if he's kicking goals like he was, so what!!

Got to admit I wasn't expecting much tonight, went along more out of interest than anything. To have a beer courtesy of the club, can't complain about that!!! Go pies!


As I understand it our training loads will increase again during the off season. Hope is that Davoren now has a better understanding of individual players and programs can be better tailored.


Last edited by jackcass on Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:05 pm; edited 1 time in total
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hazza11 



Joined: 29 Sep 2010


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:25 am
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King Monkey wrote:
Anyone can say what they like about certain decisions and pick petty faults and just generally be a hater - but fk we are so lucky to have someone as President - who is actually one of us.
He talks the talk, plays the game, but above all that he genuinely cares about the Collingwood Football Club. In a way that you can't fake it.


Absolutely spot on! Love Eddie!
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Albert Parker 



Joined: 13 Dec 2012


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:41 am
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jackcass wrote:
King Monkey wrote:
I don't ever want to hear the phrase "in reality" ever again after hearing Bill Davoren speak. It was like he was trying to convince himself as much of the rest if us that everything's hunky dory on the fitness front.

The man didn't impress me personally, I thought he'd give us more in regards to how and why we've pushed the hamstrings to the limit. Buckley gave us a little bit on that.

And how can he present us with a chart stating our running in transition has improved this year, when the on-field evidence suggests otherwise?? And keep a straight face doing it??


Club is undertaking a full review of the fitness and injury issues. Maybe it's just premature to speculate before that process is finished.


Let's see if the press are correct and Davoren is already in the clear.

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BBHS Cancer

bbhs


Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: Bellarine

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:05 am
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Didn't hear anyone question the job of Nathan Buckley but I read it so often on here........................................
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pieboy 



Joined: 16 Oct 2007


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:19 am
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BBHS wrote:
Didn't hear anyone question the job of Nathan Buckley but I read it so often on here........................................


Exactly right. One would have thought that Buckley's performance as coach or lack of it would be a major agenda item.

He has taken us from a premiership side, immediately followed by a close second, to 11th in 3 years!
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Carro 



Joined: 11 Oct 2010


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:51 am
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Yarra Falls End wrote:
One final thought, could you imagine MM at one of these forums

Q. Why don't we play man on man?
A. Who are you and what would you know!

Q. Why don't we keep players in our forward 50 rather than have everyone run back to defend?
A. How many games of AFL have you played?


pure gold.
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HAL 

Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.


Joined: 17 Mar 2003


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:54 am
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How old are you?
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ANNODAM Gemini

Rebel Heart Tour - The Forum, Los Angeles 27/10/2015.


Joined: 02 Jul 2007
Location: Eltham, VIC.

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:52 am
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Defender wrote:
Ask bucks WTF happened to his nose.







LOL, I spat my Milo onto my screen!
I've been wondering that for years!

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King Monkey 



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:28 pm
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jackcass wrote:
King Monkey wrote:
I don't ever want to hear the phrase "in reality" ever again after hearing Bill Davoren speak. It was like he was trying to convince himself as much of the rest if us that everything's hunky dory on the fitness front.

The man didn't impress me personally, I thought he'd give us more in regards to how and why we've pushed the hamstrings to the limit. Buckley gave us a little bit on that.

And how can he present us with a chart stating our running in transition has improved this year, when the on-field evidence suggests otherwise?? And keep a straight face doing it??


Club is undertaking a full review of the fitness and injury issues. Maybe it's just premature to speculate before that process is finished.


My point being that Davoren spoke, but really said very little.
And what he did say kind of flew right in the face of what we've observed on the field.

Nathan Buckley was the one to explain the soft-tissue stuff in layman's terms -
We've pushed the players to the limit to build a profile of how far we can push them in the future. Have gone a touch too far in a couple of cases, not ideal but not totally unexpected either.
(I have paraphrased.)

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King Monkey 



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....

PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:34 pm
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Another area that I thought the club, mainly Ed & Buckley, handled brilliantly - was the respectful manner the sillier questions were handled. Could've belittled some of those people quite easily and got a laugh out of the room, but didn't do so. Well done.
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Yarra Falls End 



Joined: 26 Dec 2004


PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:14 pm
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Although, he almost lost it when someone said 2 days was short notice and it was hard to arrange for someone to babysit the kids.
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35forever 

"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"


Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 4:17 pm
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So, it was, exactly as I predicted, a piss-fest, members leaving with very full pockets. Obviously nothing much is gonna change in 2015, and that means nothing much is gonna change in 2015. Clearly no one was prepared to take the coaching performance on, as Ed correctly guessed. He knows ordinary folk won't ask hard questions of such famous people when granted an audience, allowing him to basically hose down the crowd and blow sunshine up our arses.
I can't tell you what I would've done if I'd been there because I wasn't. I live in Queensland and besides which did not buy my membership for the first time in years in protest at the dumping of Daisy & Heater & the piss-poor treatment of Dids, Jolls, etc.

I'm disappointed there was no one there to ask the hard questions, but the club admitted that they'd gotten it wrong in 2014 with training loads. They're seeking advice from all kinds of international experts to figure out exactly HOW they got it wrong, so those who kept suggesting it was just bad luck now have it from the horse's mouth that our training program was a factor in the injury numbers, and that was from people invested in putting the best possible spin on the problem. And we are going to continue to have problems as the club made it very clear that they don't understand, and are not interested in, the mental side of our game. No better proof of this than Davoren telling us that the benefits of altitude training peak in January. Here he is utterly wrong, the benefits last all year. There's no better bonding exercise than a group that goes to a foreign place to be in each others company. The value of this is so far in excess of half a million it ain't funny. The biggest difference (apart from personnel) between Collingwood 2011 and Collingwood 2014, is above the shoulders, and the club obviously doesn't get it.
All in all the night seems to have been exactly what I thought it would be, a complete bloody farce where the overwhelming message was "Aren't we doing a great job", and "We'll continue doing it in 2015"

And gosh, we even bought you a beer, aren't we great?

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... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"

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Member 7167 Leo

"What Good Fortune For Governments That The People Do Not Think" - Adolf Hitler.


Joined: 18 Dec 2008
Location: The Collibran Hideout

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:06 pm
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35forever wrote:
So, it was, exactly as I predicted, a piss-fest, members leaving with very full pockets. Obviously nothing much is gonna change in 2015, and that means nothing much is gonna change in 2015. Clearly no one was prepared to take the coaching performance on, as Ed correctly guessed. He knows ordinary folk won't ask hard questions of such famous people when granted an audience, allowing him to basically hose down the crowd and blow sunshine up our arses.
I can't tell you what I would've done if I'd been there because I wasn't. I live in Queensland and besides which did not buy my membership for the first time in years in protest at the dumping of Daisy & Heater & the piss-poor treatment of Dids, Jolls, etc.

I'm disappointed there was no one there to ask the hard questions, but the club admitted that they'd gotten it wrong in 2014 with training loads. They're seeking advice from all kinds of international experts to figure out exactly HOW they got it wrong, so those who kept suggesting it was just bad luck now have it from the horse's mouth that our training program was a factor in the injury numbers, and that was from people invested in putting the best possible spin on the problem. And we are going to continue to have problems as the club made it very clear that they don't understand, and are not interested in, the mental side of our game. No better proof of this than Davoren telling us that the benefits of altitude training peak in January. Here he is utterly wrong, the benefits last all year. There's no better bonding exercise than a group that goes to a foreign place to be in each others company. The value of this is so far in excess of half a million it ain't funny. The biggest difference (apart from personnel) between Collingwood 2011 and Collingwood 2014, is above the shoulders, and the club obviously doesn't get it.
All in all the night seems to have been exactly what I thought it would be, a complete bloody farce where the overwhelming message was "Aren't we doing a great job", and "We'll continue doing it in 2015"

And gosh, we even bought you a beer, aren't we great?


Mate, If I was you I would just come back when Eddie, Bucks and co are just a distant memory. It is the only way you will get closure.

And by the way, they admitted that they had increased the training work load in an effort to increase our ability to play transitional football and to be able to maintain the stamina at the end of the game but it is still well below many other clubs. As such there is no evidence to suggest that this increase in the training work load caused the increase in soft tissue injuries. It is also evident that the Freeman injury skewed the figures of weeks lost due to the severity of the injury. There is no black and white (excuse the pun) answer here.

How much the increased work load effected the results and what other factors and how they contributed are speculative at best. I am confident that everyone at the club are doing their very best to improve the situation and to suggest that they are either complacent or so fixed on their processes that they will not change is naïve.

I personally do not know, for instance, if Buckley will ever prove himself to be a good coach. Certainly his efforts to date have been thwarted by injuries. Like many I have a concern that out defensive pressure and lack of structure are a bad sign but I am unable to comprehend to what extent injuries have stymied development in this area.

From my position I am will to sit back, not challenge the efforts the club is making and hope that 2015 is a much better year fro us.

I am also sure that you would have been very supportive of the Collingwood administration if the club had retained Dids, Jols and Daisy and by the end of the 2014 season that had played few games collectively and had had little to no impact. At least in 2014 we have got some games into young players that have good potential.
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Raw Hammer 



Joined: 11 Sep 2008
Location: The Gutter

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 5:35 pm
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I was there, and unfortunately you only get one shot at asking a question (and unfortunately, too many people wanted their piece of the limelight with pointless questions or statements: What diet are our players on? In my field of work we use best practice…we should be watching Geelong and Hawthorn DVDs. The bar at the Ponsford End closes too early. Why were we not given more notice for tonight? Cloke can’t kick. Why don’t we have a left footer like Lloyd coaching him?) Seriously.

Anyway, many questions were asked, but were not articulated very well, and were played with a straight bat by Bucks and co. mostly due to the ‘statement’ nature rather than actually asking for an answer. For example, “Bucks, our skills are rubbish, our efficiency is rubbish…” Bucks was like, “Yep.” If I was given 20 minutes with the microphone I could’ve at least asked what we are all wanting to know, but it was not to be. I wanted to ask about the standard of umpiring (I had years of stats on hand), but time was running out and I was only allowed the one question after so many before me had wasted 5-10 mins with inane suggestions and opinions.

For the record, I questioned our forward line and its personnel and told Nathan that I disagreed with his earlier assessment that we had weapons to come back into the team. I questioned Blair and why he is so often our lead up forward (Bucks said it highlights his workrate), I noted that Broomhead's vs GWS was the only front and centre goal I had seen in 5 years, and bemoaned the fact that we have no genuine forwards outside Elliott and Cloke who can impact the scoreboard. I asked where our Breusts, Grays, etc. were; players with genuine goal nous vs midfielders asked to play forward. I told him that we had a makeshift forward line, even when at full strength, and that the inside 50 pressure of the 2010-11 teams (plus individual brilliance of Didak, Leon, Krakouer) masked the deficiencies that are now being exposed. I can’t remember Buckley’s response, cos I switched off once he started talking about Blair and Goldsack, so I have ZERO confidence that our forward line will get any better anytime soon. I asked what our recruiting strategy was moving forward, but the night ended and I was cut-off (I asked Hine personally afterwards and he says that Karnezis and Broomhead will play forward, and Moore will help replace Cloke). So, in summary, some of us WERE critical and tried to get some genuine answers.

The following were critically questioned:

Why do we recruit so many small players? Hine started to talk up Kennedy. To the supporter’s credit, he cut him off and said, “I don’t want you to defend the players, I want to know why so many short players.” We were given a “We’re the 4th tallest list in the league response…” So you can see how our questions were being defended (quite poorly on many occasions). At least Bucks chimed in with, “Witts was recruited so you could bump up that number.”

Our kick-outs.Why is Keeffe our designated kicker? Buckley says he is a pretty good kick. Again, does not fill me with much confidence.

Note to Eddie: In all Q&A forums I have been to, you are generally given the chance for ONE question. This should have been communicated at the start. Some asked 3 or 4 questions, gave their statements and opinions…it was at times ludicrous and embarrassing.

But...it was a pretty damn good night considering, especially Nathan running through 2013-14-15 for the first half an hour.

I'd attend again.

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swoop42 Virgo

Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?


Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18

PostPosted: Wed Sep 03, 2014 6:03 pm
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jackcass wrote:
Defender wrote:
Beanie man is Lazza.


Must have caught an unscheduled flight back from the US. Top effort!


Haven't the US already suffered through a cyclone Larry?

Crikey don't they know they have a weapon of mass destruction in there midst?

One read of Nick's and he'll blow!

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