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| Should this player have been allowed on the court? |
| Yes |
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68% |
[ 11 ] |
| No, the physicality is an unfair advantage |
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31% |
[ 5 ] |
| Any ideas for a third option welcome! |
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[ 0 ] |
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| Total Votes : 16 |
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Mugwump
Joined: 28 Jul 2007
Location: Between London and Melbourne
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^ lookout TP, it's the empathy ghoul ! People who self-righteously want to claim greater empathy than others are usually suspect in that very department. You've made a lot of sense of common and understandable emotions in this thread, TP, while, as usual, trying to understand other opinions to your own. Respect.
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Two more flags before I die! |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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TP: as with most others, despite disagreeing with your view, I'm glad that you posted it and respect that you've been able to argue the point civilly and authentically. It's not easy posting against the current and your posts here have been a perfect example of how to do it. I hope a certain poster in this thread will be able to learn from that.
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Well done boys! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Thanks guys, really means a lot. Xxx
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| 1061 wrote: | | I have a friend who had the change and I have seen the things she has had to endure. I have read some discussions with views like TP's that made me red with anger as I read why she no longer goes to the Footy or has any interactions with her beloved Club. |
Out of curiosity - are you talking about Tess 1061?
I only ask because I knew Tess.
Transgender is a difficult concept for many to understand - hell we still have people saying things like " can't understand why Williams killed himself - surely with his money a weekend in Paris would have made him feel better" 
Long way to go with our understanding of depression which is arguably a relativity simplistic health issue in comparison to the complexities of being transgender.
I know Jo personally - she is a black and white person ( and no I am not talking about the team here) and wears her heart on her sleeve!
But she is certainly not without empathy and she is open to learning more and understanding - even if at the end if that she still disagrees which is her and indeed all of our right.
You can't shove empathy and understanding down people's throats and expect them to just digest it and feel satisfied - that just doesn't work! Trust me - I have what seem to many extreme views re animals ( including nuking the Chinese) and sometimes I get rather shall we say annoyed when people don't get it but in the end ..............
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| Morrigu wrote: | | You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. |
I think that's pretty much my life's motto. Well said, Morrigu. 
This thread provides a good example of that too. If all the posters who disagreed with Jo had taken 1061's approach, nothing would have been learned or achievedjust a battle of who could shout loudest and longest. Respect is a crucial component of any constructive debate.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| OK so Jo's a good sort that gives her the right right to degenerate transgendered people on Nicks. Fair enough then now we all know where we stand I'll run off while you people get ya guns and start shooting for me daring to challenge the Good Sort. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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| 1061 wrote: | | OK so Jo's a good sort that gives her the right right to degenerate transgendered people on Nicks. Fair enough then now we all know where we stand I'll run off while you people get ya guns and start shooting for me daring to challenge the Good Sort. |
Oh poor you. The tide turns and suddenly you're the little hard done by victim of all those forum warriors standing up for the evil lady.
Get over yourself. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| Wokko wrote: | | 1061 wrote: | | OK so Jo's a good sort that gives her the right right to degenerate transgendered people on Nicks. Fair enough then now we all know where we stand I'll run off while you people get ya guns and start shooting for me daring to challenge the Good Sort. |
Oh poor you. The tide turns and suddenly you're the little hard done by victim of all those forum warriors standing up for the evil lady.
Get over yourself. |
She has the runs on the board so she can get away with these hateful comments and then duck(ignore) when the questions get too hard!
I get it. |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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Cheers 1061. Had a close friend who experienced a similar journey as a teenager and early-20-something. Not an easy process by any means. Our friendship ended years ago for unrelated reasons, but I hope he's going well and that he's managed the transition ok.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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1061
Joined: 06 Sep 2013
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| think positive wrote: |
But no, I don't think it's fair, and that doesn't make me a bigot. It's ladies comp. he could play mixed. He's a man, I don't care what you chop off, he's still a man. Even if mentally a woman, it's a mans body. If you let him play, why not any man? What can't men put on a dress and run in a woman's event? What is the difference? |
| think positive from the H thread in GD wrote: |
Not really. In any case I'm not really fussed, as I wasn't at the time, just surprised and not sure what to think. But I can still see cause for concern.
That doesn't mean I'd abuse her or in any way trample on her feelings. It doesn't mean I think less of her as a person. |
What is it you just wouldn't abuse to HER face or you have changed your view? |
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think positive
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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Ok that's it, enough is enough. Your nothing but a nasty troll. Yes i have noticed all the snide little digs aimed at me on the various forums, I'm just choosing to ignore them. And then I replied to your question, honestly and calmly. But I will not be bullied into a stupid shit fight to please some silly little voice in your head. I've said my piece, as far as I'm concerned there is nothing to add.
You seriously need to grow up.
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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Followed this thread without posting 'til now.
Not fair one little bit to call TP a bigot and say she lacks empathy.
If anything, I think some of you guys have convinced her to soften her stance on it a touch - but you want to represent that as changing with the wind 1061???? Even to the point of spilling it over to multiple threads?? Seriously......
Instead of putting someone down, how about congratulating them for having an open mind, enough of an open mind to take on board points they may not have previously considered.
A lot around here could learn from her example.
Clearly she empathises with the situation of a young girl involved in a sporting contest.
What's new here is competing against someone with the physical attributes of a man in a female competition.
It's natural to see things from a point of view you have lived through - in this case as a female netballer playing at a fairly decent local level questioning the fairness of someone who was born male competing as a female.
(There has been no denigration of this person from what I've seen, just a question about the fairness of the contest.)
And going out on a limb here - not a very large percentage of people have issues of confusion as to which gender they belong to I suspect. Hardly an issue most will have given much thought to until confronted with a scenario such as TP has found.
Obviously those going through it, or have people close to them going through it, will have spent far far more time forming a view.
This is a really really difficult topic. I don't think I've come up with a position on it myself.
Whilst clearly it will help the young person in question's confidence and self-esteem to be welcomed to compete in this competition - does that get prioritised over maintaining the (physical, not mental) integrity of a female sporting contest??
What a tough one !!!!!!
I'm probably leaning to the side of saying she can't play in the female comp (without wanting to be mean about it at all).
I think in this specific case, the fact there are mixed competitions available on the same night might mean all parties could probably compromise and she could play as a female in the make-up of a mixed team????
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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^ No, I don't think that would be a fair compromise. Still essentially discriminatory.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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King Monkey
Joined: 15 Apr 2009
Location: On a journey to seek the scriptures of enlightenment....
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"Discriminatory" is the wrong word here. And it's unhelpful to all to put labels on the situation.
There are legitimate concerns on both sides of the fence.
_________________
"I am a great sage, equal of heaven.
Grow stick, grow.
Fly cloud, fly.
Oh you are a dee-mon, I love to fiiight." |
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