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roar
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
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| stui magpie wrote: | | Wokko wrote: | At this point I'd be happy to nationalize all Chinese owned property and business in Australia.
****. China. |
I'm very happy to reserve that as a viable option, particularly where it comes to primary producers. I could give a fat rats if they overpaid for a Toorak property, but farms and associated entities they can %$^�$%^&%% right off. |
Agree wholeheartedly with both of you.
When talking to a broad cross-section of people, it really does appear that most Australians are against foreign entities buying big swathes of farming land and water rights so how the phuck is it allowed to happen? Both sides of the political spectrum need to be bashed around the head for these decisions that are never debated.
Oh yeah, phuck china! And a big punch in the nose to the politicians who allow this!
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kill for collingwood! |
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Pi 
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
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| Dark Beanie wrote: | The threats that the Chinese student tap will be blocked and they will go somewhere else is amusing.
They are studying in Australia to get Permanent Residency and/or for their parents to buy property. Once the borders are open, they will be back as long as the PR carrot is dangled in front of them.
As for the threats against beef, milk, wine exports - it is the Chinese that want our goods as Australia is seen as a clean country probably even more so that we have (so far) been able to limit the spread of COVID-19.
And the CCP mouthpieces have said they will get iron ore from Brazil instead of Australia. They have always been able to get iron ore from Brazil, so it must be of more benefit to China to source it from Australia. |
China doesn't need our milk. They have enough melamine for everyone to consume.
Drink up China!!! |
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Pi
Joined: 13 Feb 2006
Location: SA
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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PTiddy,
I'm not quoting or responding bit by bit to that massive post, I'm leaving it there for others if they want to.
The exception I'll make is about nationalism and how people have been treated.
Facts are the CCP have treated their own people worse than other countries ever did and still allow them to slave in factories for foreign profit when they could have easily enforced a minimum wage,
I've been hearing for years people banging on about how Australia's future is China. People also assumed that as they modernised they would become more liberal and less authoritarian.
We'll they've proved that ain't happening. Them throwing the toys out of the cot is mainly for the benefit of their own people who they can feed their controlled media that they are standing up strongly for themselves, cos every chinese person, even the lowest Coolie as the saying goes, truly believes they are superior in every sense to all other peoples.
I have no massive interest in the overall trade discussion, my point is that China is clearly demonstrating they aren't anyone's ally. They don't want allies they want vassals. If we allow our economy to be dependent on them, we're up that fecal creek in a leaking canoe and no paddles.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Geezus 
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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David
I dare you to try
Joined: 27 Jul 2003
Location: Andromeda
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| stui magpie wrote: | | cos every chinese person, even the lowest Coolie as the saying goes, truly believes they are superior in every sense to all other peoples. |
Is it really so different here, though? Ethnic and national superiority complexes are a kind of universal phenomenon.
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All watched over by machines of loving grace |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | PTiddy,
I'm not quoting or responding bit by bit to that massive post, I'm leaving it there for others if they want to.
The exception I'll make is about nationalism and how people have been treated.
Facts are the CCP have treated their own people worse than other countries ever did and still allow them to slave in factories for foreign profit when they could have easily enforced a minimum wage,
I've been hearing for years people banging on about how Australia's future is China. People also assumed that as they modernised they would become more liberal and less authoritarian.
We'll they've proved that ain't happening. Them throwing the toys out of the cot is mainly for the benefit of their own people who they can feed their controlled media that they are standing up strongly for themselves, cos every chinese person, even the lowest Coolie as the saying goes, truly believes they are superior in every sense to all other peoples.
I have no massive interest in the overall trade discussion, my point is that China is clearly demonstrating they aren't anyone's ally. They don't want allies they want vassals. If we allow our economy to be dependent on them, we're up that fecal creek in a leaking canoe and no paddles. |
The saying was Australia's future is in Asia, not just China; I'm not sure which tabloid changed the equation, but you're wrong if you think the rest of Asia doesn't have plans of its own. Ask Indians, Koreans, Japanese and Russians what they think and you might get some different perspectives on the region from neighbouring countries no less. (Let's not forget the rather recent 'the Muslims are taking over' panic, spread by the usual suspects, which failed to calculate that most of the world is not in fact Muslim, just as it is not in fact Chinese).
And when Anglo-America was developing, it treated its own people just as badly. Go do some reading on Anglo-American industrial slums. And we won't even start with indigenous peoples. You're selectively picking out things that prop up the panic thesis because you're reading too much media nonsense. Development is ugly and always has been. You know that as well as I do. I'm not saying I like it, but you don't get to use that argument without a heavy rider, including reference to, say, India, Indonesia, Mexico, Nigeria or Brazil's extremely ugly industrial development. Again, South Korea was no picture in this regard and was probably far worse than you imagine.
We also still don't have anywhere near enough information on China. You'd have said South Korea in the 1980s and 1990s was a democratic basket case, and it was a very easy country to read relative to China. And I could list as many egregious actions from South Korean dictators relative to scale and level of development. It's miles too complex to think media tanties by one regime at one point gives you all the information you need to know as to whether things are fundamentally shifting.
Think about it: hundreds of millions of people moving out of poverty; millions of competing businesses; enormous people movement; massive national exchange; massive numbers of global transactions daily; massive information exchange. The party control will already be imaginary, and its current PR won't hold. These things can change pretty quickly.
Also, the world is a very hostile place at the moment led by a flailing United States which is provoking all kinds of destabilisation. China needs world leaders who can see beyond cheap votes and have a firm yet inclusive view of the international order. The rest of the world is chaotic because of Anglo-America's disgraceful past two decades; that there are no competent Anglo-American parties to engage China is hardly their fault.
That doesn't mean I don't believe in sensible economic policy and defence, BTW; I'm no fan of any country. How many posts have I made on the menace of mining and fossil fuels arguing instead for the broadening of Australia's industrial portfolio? It was all pissing in the wind when the cheap money was coming in and fat heads and thugs with no great a skill than wrangling land titles in sleazy deals were wandering around the country pontificating on the economy and interfering in legislation and elections while people drank it up like lap dogs.
My favourite saying is 'nations are idiots'. That includes China, but at the moment it very much also includes Anglo-America. And don't forget, China is the developing country here with the infinitely harder task. What's Anglo-America's excuse? Judge carefully, is what I'd say, and work hard to encourage things in a productive direction rather than resigning to a bad hunch about history, which really is buying into the worst racist Chinese 'fate' and 'destiny' propaganda ('Manifest Destiny', anyone?).
The risks are there, to be sure, but one thing's pretty obvious: hundreds of millions of Chinese folks don't deserve to stay in dire poverty to make us sleep easier at night because the Anglosphere has grown accustomed to undeserved control of everything, even as it makes undisciplined, idiotic decisions like Brexit and Trump, or has handed over its political system and industrial policy to corrupt mining companies.
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In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Millions of Chinese people are the CCP's problem, not mine and the CCP has pretty much total control of the joint with state controlled media both social and traditional and the great firewall of China to keep them all in check.
Say what you like, I'd trust the CCP as far as I could throw Xi
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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| David wrote: | | stui magpie wrote: | | cos every chinese person, even the lowest Coolie as the saying goes, truly believes they are superior in every sense to all other peoples. |
Is it really so different here, though? Ethnic and national superiority complexes are a kind of universal phenomenon. |
Yeah, it is. Most Aussies of whatever background would tell anyone that this is the best place on earth to live, that's not the same thing
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Dave The Man 
Joined: 01 Apr 2005
Location: Someville, Victoria, Australia
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They been trying to take over the world for quite some time
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I am Da Man |
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pietillidie
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| stui magpie wrote: | Millions of Chinese people are the CCP's problem, not mine and the CCP has pretty much total control of the joint with state controlled media both social and traditional and the great firewall of China to keep them all in check.
Say what you like, I'd trust the CCP as far as I could throw Xi |
That's well beside the point in all kinds of ways.
First, where except in your imagination has anyone asked you to trust the CCP? Saying you don't trust the CCP is a tautology given you're sane, not a world insight. Who with half a brain trusts any large powerful entity with no incentive to act in their interest, let alone one they know nothing about? But again, reality knocks and says it doesn't give a shite whether you trust the CCP or not because you have to deal with them regardless.
And let's be up front here, you know ten effs of bugger all about the CCP or how China actually works. Compare two scenarios: (1) we ask you, sans Wikipedia, to give us an overview of the ALP; and (2) we ask you, sans Wikipedia, to give us an overview of the CCP. Need we go on? Sure, most people know very little about China, but not forgetting this makes all the difference. Remember the geniuses from the Coalition of the Willing who led invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq based on vague notions of places they knew nothing about? Remember the fist-waving cheer squads who knew even less?
Second, millions of people flexing their collective political muscle in your region are your problem, just as the superpower collapsing is your problem. We wouldn't be having this conversation and you wouldn't be so incensed if it were otherwise.
Third, the censorship is bad enough, but it didn't last in South Korea because it stifles far too much of the economy. Wait until the finances start tightening and there will be a choice: strengthen the grip and reverse economic growth, or loosen the grip. Unlike Russia, China has no oil and gas to fall back on, so the choice will be more stark. Not to mention trying to control that many people is itself a fantasy. I don't buy it at all, unless it happens through an AI dystopia that takes us all down.
Fourth, as Trump has vividly shown, a refusal to understand, engage and manage a problem doesn't make it go away. Just as lashing out after refusing to broaden your industrial base over the last two decades when the easy mining money was rolling in will not magically broaden your industrial base today.
_________________
In the end the rain comes down, washes clean the streets of a blue sky town.
Help Nick's: http://www.magpies.net/nick/bb/fundraising.htm |
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stui magpie
Prepare for the worst, hope for the best.
Joined: 03 May 2005
Location: In flagrante delicto
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Ptiddy, just have a Bex and a lie down. I don't want to fight with you, we've been there, lets not do it again.
We each have opinions informed by different stuff and the likelihood is we're both wrong.
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Every dead body on Mt Everest was once a highly motivated person, so maybe just calm the **** down. |
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Morrigu 
Joined: 11 Aug 2001
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| think positive wrote: | | Getting over the constant racist calls, I don’t hate Chinese people, I do hate China and the misery they have subjected the world to. I hate the callous way they allow animals to be treated. I also hate the US laws on many things, such as their wild animal policies, (and it may be that Tiger King has will now force changes) and those god awful people who damage horses legs to make them step up. And Australia for allowing jump racing despite the carnage. It’s not racism, it’s evil shit done by a country that happens to be a race that’s not the same as mine. I don’t hate muslins, I do hate isis. And I do hate Umpires ever $�$%^%%$ colour they are . |
Yep!! I do hate the Chinese people mainly the middle class and wealthy who are rapidly ensuring the extinction of so many species with their greed and “status” shite and the authorities who turn a blind eye to it! I understand that poverty may cause people to eat what we would consider repulsive and not acceptable- that doesn’t excuse the cruelty in any way!! I love the increasing number of Chinese people who are working their backsides off against the odds to improve animal welfare in their country. And you can extend that love and hate to every country including the USA and our own.
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.” |
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