 |
|
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: |  |
|
| Pies4shaw wrote: | You'd think the guy would give up when his "vote to get rid of Buckley now" thread resulted in a landslide the other way. But, apparently not.
The only really persuasive case I can see for sacking Buckley is that it might quiet the toddlers for a bit and let us have Nick's back. |
As we have found out, the "perceptive fellow" are in the minority on Nicks but post more than the silent majority. They are a joke unto themselves and all we can do is to laugh our arses off at these “get rid of Eddie, Bucks, players, physios, doctors, trainers etc” posts and move along as there is not a semblance of intelligence to see in any of the saddie posts except vast extremes in pessimism and negativity.
If you had these people next to you in a war bunker, getting shot by the enemy just to escape this constant whinging and sooking might seem a bloody great idea….  .  |
|
|
|
 |
Lazza
Joined: 04 Feb 2003
Location: Bendigo, Victoria, Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | I guess the main problem for us 'Anti-Buckley' Pies supporters, is that Bucks IS a club legend, and we might have to wait YEARS to get rid of what we believe is a huge lemon of a coach |
Why wait years??? Just have the balls to attend the fan forum, look Bucks in the eye and tell him he is a bloody lemon as a coach! Simple really. Don’t be a whinging sook here who is too chicken to face the problem front on like most normal people do. Shooting arrows here won’t hit Bucks. Do yourself a huge gutsy favour, grow some cohunas and go tell him he is a shit coach and that you don't want to wait years on end to see the back of him........
THEN, only THEN will you earn respect here and the integrity to stand by your beliefs at the proper forum. |
|
|
|
|
bwphantom 
It's Better to Burn Out Than to Fade Away
Joined: 15 Mar 2002
Location: Brisbane QLD
|
| Post subject: | |
|
Let Essendope stumble and fall with their wonderboy. Lloyd is also going to be appointed as diving skills coach, as the Cats are giving him the flick after the Bartel debacle.
As for Bomber, we would have more chance having Harmes confirming it was out, than Bomber ever coming to Collingwood in any type of role.
_________________
All this may be summed up in one word - CHARACTER - and if that is not worth developing, nothing is.
Jock McHale |
|
|
|
|
ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 35forever wrote: |
@ThePieMind: Yes mate, I provided circumstantial evidence, is there another kind available? Should I have set up a double blind? Most murderers are convicted on circumstantial evidence absent a confession. If our injury run continues for five more years and then suddenly stops the minute we get a coach it's still circumstantial! I can't imagine Bucks will sign a confession, can you? Your statement here is wrong, the correct way to put it would be that "Correlation isn't always causation, but is often used to identify it."
So it boils down to the strength of the correlation and by any reasonable definition Injuires and poor performance are a clear and established correlation. While yours is a very tenous correlation with far less established precedent than mine. So on the balance of probabilities yours in very unlikely.
Next point: It doesn't really matter how good your tactical nous is if you don't have the players, Leading Teams was ALWAYS going to be a mistake for us given the circumstances. PS: Your suggestion that LT were behind the success of Geelong and Hawthorn is even more circumstantial than my point about injury! .It would help if no other, losing sides employed them, or if ALL flag-winning teams of the last half dozen years had employed them, but it would STILL be circumstantial, now wouldn't it?
Sorry MATE - LT teams were brought in to change culture, and success followed. The cause and effect here is therefore far stonger. Give me a single example of a credible outsider backing your contention on Bucks causing injuries and I'll concede, conversely there are many backing me re LT and SWANS, GEEL and HAWKS.
Again my position is far more probable
Next: YES, we DO all want an enduring winning culture, and guess what?
WE HAD ONE! The Magpies of 2010-11 had the best internal culture I've ever seen at a footy club, it was absolutely perfect! The players would've killed for each other & for the coach. They were happy with the board & admin, how could a culture be better than that!? Like I keep saying, go look at episodes of "The Black & White Show" from those years (available at CFC), and tell me what you see. Please, just look, and compare it with now. They're still kinda funny, but look at the interaction! The core of that culture were Mick, Daisy & Heater, all gone.
Unfortunately history doesn't provide many examples of dumping a coach on an incredible winning streak, coz no one else has ever done anything that stupid. The closest is Melbourne's sacking of Norm Smith in '65, and they re-hired him the next week, What happened to Melbourne after that? They call it a 'curse' because it seems more palatable than calling it the dumbest thing ever done in Melbourne's history!
What we've effectively done is favour "Long term Pain over Short Term gain" No one's ever done it, and no one ever will again. Notice how all the other clubs applauded us for sticking to the contract? Talk about all your Christmases coming at once!!!
Daisy left for more money, Mick chose not to honour his contract - why do you even bother to link these to failures with Bucks. Saving Heater would have made little difference to our prospects this year. And finally you ignore the impact the departure of all the necessary retirements have had on culture.
Again on the balance of probability your contention does not hold up given the above factors were beyond Buckleys control (except for Heater).
The club didn't fail MM they gave him a flag - MM failed the club by not honoring his contract.
Next: you repeat your 'stable 22' argument, and again I tell you the simple fact that it's not a non-sequitur. It isn't a fact, and it's eminently disputable!
Injuries provide opportunities for young players, look at last week's win. JT, who was best afield wouldn't have got another run without the injury debacle of the Lions game. Where will you be if we beat hawthorn with even more kids?
Sure it's highly unlikely and I wouldn't put the farm on it, but you never know!
OK do you admitt your contention is implausible - great I can live with that.
Next: there were several points I didn't address because of the constant bitching about my long posts, but for Collingwood the "rich merry-go-round" DOES work, in fact it’s the ONLY thing that's worked for us in over 50 years!!!! The big difference with the sides you mentioned is that in each case the coaches overwhelmingly had the support of the players which Buckley does NOT have.
Who were the players playing for last week - it would have been far easier to increase the pressure for a coaching change by losing again don't you think - so again on the balance of probabilities your contention is unsupported
|
|
|
|
|
|
35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| SuperStar Beams wrote: | | yes i am a younger fan but to say i don't understand the game is a big cry, success breeds success you say Hawks fans from 2009 say hello, went from winning a flag to not making the Grand Final when they still probably had one of the best lists around at that time, yes they are back up again now and i still believe we will one day in the next cpl of years, maybe thats where my youthfulness comes in, i always hope and believe no matter what, i will back any decision my club makes even if it is the wrong one because every person makes mistakes, but sometimes mistakes can still become a success, it just needs time and thats what i believe so anyone can say whatever they what but in the end you have your opinion and this is my opinion and i will always stick by it |
Clearly I've upset you, but that wasn't my intention, you're a Magpie so we're on the same side. I simply believe that after 45 years of studying the game I know how it works better than you do, better than most people if I'm being honest. The advantage you have over me is that you're young enough to have the sheer belief that Collingwood will come out on top. Keep that as long as you possibly can! Don't misunderstand, I hope, I hope very dearly every single time we play, whether it's a pre-season practice match or a Grand Final. Even if it would be better for the club to lose (to get earlier picks or an easier finals run) I can't bring myself to do anything other than hope to win. Belief is another matter. Y'see, Collingwood has played 13 Grand Finals in my time for just two wins, I went through the 70's when we were among the best sides each year (except '76) but couldn't win a flag. I endured the '80's when we were as bad as a Magpie side could possibly be, and I lived through the 90's when we started with a flag & finished with a wooden spoon. It's a bloody roller coaster ride being a Collingwood supporter, but I hope your life contains nothing but winning years, enjoy. Your point about Hawthorn's 2009 stinker really just proves mine, success breeds success. Sometimes clubs suffer the phenomenon known as the "Premiership hangover" (It happened to us in 1990). But the success they had in '08 - largely as a result of recruiting Buddy & Roughy, soon re-started and it's still going. What I meant by "success breeds success" is that when you've been winning it's a lot easier to win, it's just the psychology of the game, and sport in general, an area we just don't pay enough attention to, if we did you wouldn’t see scores like 5.16. If you're supremely confident that you'll kick straight you probably will. If you're not kicking well you feel a bit shaky when you're 40 out dead in front, especially if it's an important time in the game.
On the other hand, in the case of our game, failure can breed success as well. We got Pendles & Daisy because we had lousy years in '04 & '05, Hawthorn did even worse than us and got Franklin & Roughead. You also said that you'd back the club every time, but it isn't that simple. What if the coach and the President disagree? What if another group come along at the AGM and topple Eddie & his board? Who do you back? Is the old board "the club" or is it the new one? For me it's the players that matter. I'll back our players each & every time, that’s why if you go through my posts over the last decade you won't find a single one bagging a player. You also won't find one bagging the coach until this last year. For me, if the players would do better under a different coach a different coach should be found, and I believe that's exactly what they want. They won't say it in public, they'd be out on the footpath very quickly if they did. I back the club every time, just like you, the difference is that for me the players ARE the club, not guys in suits.
_________________
"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
Visit My Website! |
|
|
|
|
John Wren
"Look after the game. It means so much to so many."
Joined: 15 Jul 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 35forever wrote: |
I simply believe that after 45 years of studying the game I know how it works better than you do, better than most people if I'm being honest. |
really.
_________________
Purveyor of sanctimonious twaddle. |
|
|
|
|
ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
@35forever
MATE if Bucks has lost the players why is it they have not left in droves.
We have virtually re-signed every one - seriously you have nothing to support this contention. |
|
|
|
|
35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
|
| Post subject: | |
|
As I read more I see there are lots of personal insults and one clown being verbally abusive because I don't go to the meeting and tell Buckley he's "a lemon" To these I can only say that personal abuse on a web forum is about as gutless as it gets. The suggestion that I "grow Cahunas" can only be made by someone lacking those very organs.
It's not feasible for me to go to the meeting simply to call Buckley names, as I live in Queensland now, but if I thought it would actually help Collingwood's chances I'd find a way. However I would need someone to explain to me how calling the coach names (which I've never done or suggested) could possibly help my team.
The 'gutless section' here really are becoming rather shrill & frantic, but I really don't know what you're so worried about, I absolutely promise you that the current board, (which is unlikely to be challenged as far as I know), is NOT going to do anything about the coaching problem until at least 2016, and only then if we continue plummeting in a southerly direction. If we manage to hang on to the bottom of the ladder in 2015 it'll be years before anything is done. This is Nathan Buckley after all and Eddie sees him as a Jock Mchale-like figure who transitions from Captain to coach & stays for as long as he likes. I believe completely that if Buckley hangs on to his job he'll have us back in the top 4 sometime around 2020. Personally I don't want to wait that long.
_________________
"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
Visit My Website! |
|
|
|
|
35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| John Wren wrote: | | 35forever wrote: |
I simply believe that after 45 years of studying the game I know how it works better than you do, better than most people if I'm being honest. |
really. |
Um, yes, mate... really!
_________________
"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
Visit My Website! |
|
|
|
|
Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| 35forever wrote: | Again, my apologies for the length, but I have to address each poster
@breadcrawl: Yes, I did say the ladder don't change much after Rd.10. Glad you remembered that! So you're giving me Richmond & West coast. Both can't make it, can they? So you're saying that Richmond hanging on for 8th,(maybe), and ONLY because we performed far worse than ANYONE could've guessed DISproves my point? Seriously? I'd say I nailed it, yet again!
|
You tried to imply that by giving us a tough early fixture the AFL could entrench us in the bottom eight and cost us a good ladder position. That wherever you are positioned in Round 10 is about where you will finish.
The season has totally disproved your point because being 8-3 did not entrench us in the Top 4 or even the Top 8, now did it?
Port have fallen late in the season, and West Coast and Richmond have completely contradicted your contention by rising from the bottom four to challenge for the eight.
It often happens the way you suggested it would, there are sound and logical reasons for this, but it isn't guaranteed and in the face of a body of evidence which has turned up after the argument that proves it isn't guaranteed you continue to consider that you 'nailed it, yet again!'.
This says it all I feel
_________________
they can smell what we're cookin' |
|
|
|
|
What'sinaname 
Joined: 29 May 2010
Location: Living rent free
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| ThePieMind wrote: | @35forever
MATE if Bucks has lost the players why is it they have not left in droves.
We have virtually re-signed every one - seriously you have nothing to support this contention. |
And go where? How many people hate their job / boss but stay because the pay is good and change is a scary proposition. I would assume 90% of players would prefer certainty (but hate their job) than risk everything for happiness.
_________________
Fighting against the objectification of woman. |
|
|
|
|
ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| What'sinaname wrote: | | ThePieMind wrote: | @35forever
MATE if Bucks has lost the players why is it they have not left in droves.
We have virtually re-signed every one - seriously you have nothing to support this contention. |
And go where? How many people hate their job / boss but stay because the pay is good and change is a scary proposition. I would assume 90% of players would prefer certainty (but hate their job) than risk everything for happiness. |
Pendles, Swan, Cloke Grundy, BK, Broomy, all hate Bucks but signed on because they can't find another club.
You cannot be serious, all of them could have EASILY found another club. |
|
|
|
|
The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Lazza wrote: | | The Boy Who Cried Wolf wrote: | | I guess the main problem for us 'Anti-Buckley' Pies supporters, is that Bucks IS a club legend, and we might have to wait YEARS to get rid of what we believe is a huge lemon of a coach |
Why wait years??? Just have the balls to attend the fan forum, look Bucks in the eye and tell him he is a bloody lemon as a coach! Simple really. Don’t be a whinging sook here who is too chicken to face the problem front on like most normal people do. Shooting arrows here won’t hit Bucks. Do yourself a huge gutsy favour, grow some cohunas and go tell him he is a shit coach and that you don't want to wait years on end to see the back of him........
THEN, only THEN will you earn respect here and the integrity to stand by your beliefs at the proper forum. |
It would be my utter pleasure Lazza - no fear here - I stand by every word I say, or I wouldn't say it. I don't hide my thoughts whatsoever, and not being behind a computer screen and keyboard wouldn't change that.
PS: (this dialog I know you understand).
_________________
All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
|
|
|
|
STOKA35 
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Mount Barker. South Australia
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| Nothing against mick we finished higher than carlton, mick wouldn't have done any better |
|
|
|
|
MatthewBoydFanClub
Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Location: Elwood
|
| Post subject: | |
|
| I've never had any doubt from day one that Buckley is an excellent match day coach. I've just been bewildered with some of the team selections, game plan, zoning and other coaching theories that Buckley has instigated since he became coach. I thought we hit rock bottom against Brisbane which I found embarrassing to watch. However I feel we turned the corner last week against GWS with the fighting spirit we showed in the last quarter. We now have something to work with and can build further tomorrow night against Hawthorn. Not expecting us to win, just to show the same fighting spirit we showed last week. Very impressed with the team selection for tomorrow night with the inclusion of Gault, as it puts to death the idea of a second leading forward who acts as a relief ruckman. Injuries have taken over the plight of the team and now becomes the key issue which has to be addressed before we can move forward as a club next year. Now is not the time to throw knives at the senior coach. We need to get behind Buckley and the coaching staff now while they sort out the issue of injuries. I would think by about the half way mark next year we will have a better idea how Buckley is performing as a coach. If Buckley has gone backwards at that point I would think the club should make a decision on his tenure. AFL is a ruthless competition and it doesn't matter how big you are in the game, you live and die by your performances. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
|
The Rules
FAQ
Usergroups
Calendar
Search
Log in
Register
