GBN! Get Bomber Now!!!

[HAL]

Where did [quotePies4shaw]Your Buckley poll thread presently get 4012 views and it's running 84% against you?

[collie dog]

[Pies4shaw]

Nothing like a complete non~sequitur to throw in, jack. Well done.

[SuperSwede]

No, I said in OUR case, and i'm right. It's really rather dishonest to misquote me and then attempt to build a case on the misquote. There was no 'rebuild' after 2005, we had some great picks because we had a lousy 2 years and we used them. Some players retired which was just natural attrition. How is that a rebuild? Our top tier of players, who had us on top of the ladder just 6 games after that awful year remained largely the same: Buckley, O'Bree, Rocca, Licca, Taz, Lockyer, Dids, Neon, Fraser, Maxy, Holland, Johnno, Clement, Presti, Swanny, Lonie & Richards. We were back to No.1 with just 3 new players. Rebuild?
............................................................
The word 'rebuild' was never used. A two year failure is NOT a reason to get rid of a proven coach who had brought us so much success in such a short time. A 3 year failure from a coach who inherited the best Collingwood side in modern history is rather different, don't you think?
...................................................................................

Well, I don’t recall having been called dishonest before, but there you are, there’s always a first time. It seems I’ve missed that your ”theory” that rebuilds never bring success, new coaches do only applies to Collingwood. But have I understood you correctly this time i.e. re-builds may well work at other clubs and it is not necessary to sack the coach ?
Whilst we were more competitive in 2006 we were in fact not No 1, we may have been after 6 rounds, but we ended up at no 5 and we were bundled out of the finals in the first round. It actually took us another 4 years to get to the no 1 position. In the meantime we had retired players of the caliber of Nathan Buckley, Scotty Burns, James Clement, Anthony Rocca, Shane O’Bree, Tarkyn Lockyer and quite a few others. By the time we were No1 the majority of our players weren’t there when we almost hit rock bottom in 2005. Maybe that still doesn’t qualify as a re-build, I’ll let you be the judge of that.
It does seem to me however that we engaged in something that might perhaps be called a re-build – or maybe it was just a gradual phasing out of some players and bringing in some new ones - and we didn’t replace the coach and we were ultimately successful. To me it seems therefore that saying that re-builds never work and that replacing coaches does is a pretty meaningless statement. The real question is whether you think you have the right guy in the coaching position or not. If you reckon you do, then you would do well to stick with him, if you reckon he is not the right person, then you ought to replace him asap.
The best Collingwood team in modern times, well that’s your opinion, nothing more than that. We had indeed enjoyed back to back premierships, but this is not the English Premier League, where the premiership goes to the team that is on top after the home and away season. Hell, with 18 teams nowadays and 22 rounds that competition is skewed anyway. In the AFL it’s what you do in the finals that counts and I think that’s part of making this sport so great.
In 2010 we absolutely pulverized the opposition, and I still am shaking my head in wonder about how on earth St Kilda managed a draw against us. In 2011 we struggled to put the West Coast away, we stumbled into the Grand Final courtesy of a three point win against Hawthorn, which could easily have been the other way round. In the big one we lost comprehensively to Geelong. In fact in this season we played the Cats three times for three losses. Does this make us the best Collingwood team of the modern era? Debatable in my view.
I know your opinion, mine is that we were by the end of 2011 a top 4 team, but no longer the standout that were a year earlier. And you know, that’s where we ended up in 2012 as well. By which time the cracks in the veneer had become much more apparent. Our leading goalkicker in 2010, Alan Didak, was injured in the Queen’s birthday game of 2012 and was never the same afterward. He and our leading ruckman in 2010 - Darren Jolly – were de-listed by the end of 2013, neither received an offer from another club. Daisy Thomas you only know too well, by the time he transferred over to Carlton he seemed way past his best and doesn’t seem to have covered himself in glory over there. Leigh Brown retired etc. If I feel sad about anything it is that we were not able to extend our period of dominance from 2010, and maybe the blame for that can be laid at Nathan Buckley’s door. But how much better another coach would have done is only speculation.

For mine there are question marks around Nathan Buckley for sure. I don’t buy that he has been a disaster, nor has he demonstrated yet that he is a really good coach. Maybe he will in due time, maybe not. The thing that troubles me the most is not the slide downhill, but rather the question whether our young players of 2010 are better today than four years ago. Some of them definitely are, but in others you would have liked to see more development. Future success will probably be determined by how well we can develop our promising young players.

[35forever]

Superswede:
I didn't call you dishonest, I applied that label to your rhetorical device of misquoting me and building an argument on the misquote.
As for re-builds, I'm not sure there is such a thing. Mostly it seems to be used as an excuse for teams who are losing. Every side rolls players over annually, older guys retire (including ALL the guys you mentioned) and new guys come through the draft. The worse you're playing the more important your draft picks. The nightmare of 2005 got us Pendles & Daisy, guys who were good enough to form the nucleus of the future Magpies. The main thing was that we had the coaching & fitness staff to turn these guys into champions, I'm far less confident that we have that now, if we did we'd get better results from the guys we've drafted recently. An example: Brodie Grundy. In just a few games he showed he was able to match it with the leagues best, but this year hasn't seen the same effort from him. Why?

You question the 2011 side. That they were the best Collingwood side in modern times is merely my opinion you say. No, it isn't just opinion, they were defeated just twice in the H&A season, better than the 1990 or 2010 premiership sides, and with a far higher percentage than those sides. Lets also not forget that both defeats were under peculiar circumstances. The first defeat was our first game after the bye. Most teams were beaten after the bye that year, and we got Geelong after our bye, they got the very weak Kangas. Still we came within 3 points of victory and would've won if the umpire had a clue about the rules. Pendlebury's disallowed goal cost us that match, but if you watch it you'll see the dirtiest Cats team in years beating the snot out of our guys after the ball had moved on. We were screwed by the umpiring & the draw, and still should have won.
The other defeat was the Rd.24 dead rubber. We've lost nearly all our last rounds in the past decade, including 2010, and we had the Minor Premiership sewn up. We put up a good first quarter but it was clear that no one wanted to get injured or reported and be the next "Presti" We just didn't show up for that one as we knew how dirty Geelong were. The boys wanted to play finals. Now look at the draw in the 2nd half of the season. We played top 8 sides or sides fighting to make the 8 each week and beat them, or thrashed them. Meanwhile between Rounds 13 & 22 Geelong played nothing but stragglers, and when they did play 2 sides hanging on to the 8 they lost!
Given the circumstances that year, to be two games clear with 80 of a possible 84 points with a 180 percentage coming into the final round was incredible, that's hardly just my opinion! In 2010 we were a tad shaky at the start of the year and got better as the season wore on, but we lost to StKilda, Brisbane, Geelong and Hawthorn, and drew with Melbourne. We ended up with 70 points & 140%. Any way you carve it we were far better in 2011, and would have certainly been premiers if there was no "succession".
We were so good in fact that we managed to still be in the top 4 a year later after all the external stuff that was happening. After that Buckley's inability to deal with the more outward personalities in the team, added to the way we treated former greats, allowed the rot to set in.
Whether you buy it or not, Buckley has been a disaster, he has presided over an unprecedented injury toll, the loss of champion players, and a plummet from first in 2010 & 2011 to 11th just 3 seasons on.

In the end our differences are not that great, the main one being that you want to give Bucks another year, and I don't. I believe that arises from having seen all this before and knowing how it's gonna turn out.

The effort last week against Hawthorn was the absolute cherry on this shit sundae! We'd gotten so weak in just 3 years that we couldn't even compete after quarter time. Next year will be more of the same. Another difference between us is that you will get what you want, another season of Buckley, while I won't. That pisses me off no end!

There's no Collingwood supporters here or anywhere else saying that they're excited about what Nathan has done in his 3 years, no one saying that he's clearly a masterful coach and the future of the game, no. What we have is a lot of people saying "Well, he hasn't been great but we probably should give him another year just in case the injuries weren't his fault" Geezuz! That’s gotta be a winning attitude, right?

The chances of us winning the 2015 flag are zero, absolutely zero. I predict that Melbourne will finish above us. What do the rest of you predict? A flag? A top 4 finish? I'm not hearing it!

[Pies4shaw]

You are quite correct that the 2011 Collingwood team was the best we've put on the park in most of our lifetimes. I blame the then coach and fitness staff for having that side peter out at the end of the season, when it actually mattered. It was the previous coaching regime that stuffed that up, not the present one. Putting it into proper perspective, the previous coaching regime had 4 attempts and got up once - and even then, only by the skin of its teeth (despite fielding a team that was about 6 to 10 goals better than its opposition on any given day).

Now, feel free to get back to blaming that on the "handover". Not that anyone much cares any more.

[Geek]

[Piesnchess]

Well that's it for bomber at essendoper land, now he makes way for the pretty boy. My gut says he will want out, he wont play second fiddle to that little shithead druggie. I reckon we should get him as an assistant to bucks, for next season, and if bucks fails in his last contracted season, well, you know what I mean, just saying.

[Bob Sugar]

[Piesnchess]

[mudlark]

[Albert Parker]

I must say, I'd be tempted to grab Thompson from the perspective of his proven results.

I do however wonder about 2 things

1/ his style is quite the contrast to Buckley. He's very laconic. Could they work together? Would he be the contrasting personality that some players could gravitate to though?

2/ I also wonder about elements of his personal life. There are strong suggestions abounding about Thompson being 'Matthew Stokes aligned' for want of a better term

[MatthewBoydFanClub]

I've changed my mind about Thompson. He carries too much baggage at Essendon. I'll maintain the faith that Buckley will come good as a coach either next year or the year after. In the event that it doesn't work out I think we should poach Brad Scott back from North Melbourne. I'm actually sorry that Brad left us when he did because I think he would have been doing a much better job with the midfield group than the last two or three in the job.

[Cam]

[collie dog]