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35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
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| September Zeros wrote: |
I do agree with about 1% of what you type ........ Unfortunately it's mostly the punctuation.
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Another excellent 1-liner, nice one.
But still no intelligent rebuttal, just the standard ad-hominem rubbish, and it's getting nasty too, this means we're entering the end game.
| Quote: | | It requires a special kind of hubris to imagine that posting the same stuff, over and over again, with no significant factual content or analysis - and at such incredible length - will attract or keep attention, or persuade anyone who doesn't already agree with you. |
How do you know that? The thread has over two and a half thousand views. Did you ask them all? If I re-iterate my central arguments it's because someone attempts, however feebly, to refute them. I don't expect for a second that my writing will affect the outcome for Collingwood, but it's certainly a pressure valve for me after what has been a spectacularly disappointing season. If the rest of you read it or not bothers me neither jot nor tittle, but at heart I know many people believe what I believe. The 'succession' was a cock-up of epic proportions. Nothing like it has been seen in our game or anyone else's. Taken on it's own it’s a spectacular cluster f**k, but seen in the light of Collingwood's last 40 years, it's so absolutely inexplicable, I almost can't believe it really happened.... We did this EXACT same thing in 1995, we dumped a premiership-winning coach to replace him with our much-beloved team champion who had no experience whatsoever. The result? A wooden spoon within three years. On that occasion I thought it was the wrong move to dump Matthews after 9 years, but I also thought Shaw should've gotten more than three seasons, at least until Eddie grabbed us one of the best coaches in the biz. Talk about déja-frikkin'-vu!!!???
So what was the answer last time? And the time before that? And the time before that? Getting a great outside coach. From a mortal enemy. One who is so utterly not-Collingwood it was a shock each time. In the end it's what we'll do again this time, it's just that most of you are prepared to throw 2015 away. You're determined to have another lousy, injury plagued season. I don't know what you're all so worked up about, you're going to get your wish. Sh|t, we're already 2 men down for 2015, our best young hope & the best tagger we've ever had. The chances of Buckley implementing a game plan are already compromised!
D'ya think being in the I-told-you-so position again will bring me a shred of solace?
_________________
"If at first you dont succeed...
... oh who cares, we did it!!!!!"
-me, 2010
"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
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BBHS 
bbhs
Joined: 30 Jun 2004
Location: Bellarine
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| Paragraphs are awesome |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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A comment from The Age quoted as a reference point for next year. Will the excuses continue?
| Quote: | | a dud coach who is incapable of relating to the players. No matter which way you look at it, Buckley has taken a premiership winning team of back to back grand finalists, and destroyed their chances of further success. With Ball, Goldsack and Beams now set to join the list of lost talent, the Pies are realistically looking at a bottom six finish during season 2015; and still the excuses will go on. |
Commenter
In the outer
Location
Date and time
August 29, 2014, 5:54PM
http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/making-sense-of-collingwoods-season-in-hell-20140828-109jt4.html#ixzz3BqOrRSuP
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Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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^^No, they will surely stop now that such an authority as a commenter on an Age article has laid out the facts  .
What happened to posting your own stuff Jack? Therianthropy seems to have made you lazy and far less interesting.
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Well done boys! |
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collie dog
RIP Shelby 11-10-13
Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Location: Shelby Christmas dog
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | ^^No, they will surely stop now that such an authority as a commenter on an Age article has laid out the facts .
What happened to posting your own stuff Jack? Therianthropy seems to have made you lazy and far less interesting. |
Don't know why you keep calling me Jack. He can look after himself. I just reflect what the average supporter in the outer thinks about the current state of affairs. Listened to any footy talkback lately? No wonder crowds are down. And they won't come back for quite a while either.
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Rain or hail, I wag my tail |
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thompsoc
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Tannin wrote: | We are looking at possibly the biggest clusterfuckup in coaching history, and if it happens it will happen soon. The board is likely, any time now, to announce the most stupid shoot-yourself-in-the-head coaching move you are likely to see for a long, long time ... when they get rid of an excellent, professional coach with a great record and replace him with a failed, dishonest druggie wonderkid. Essendon, get a clue you tools: give Thompson a contract and give your disgraced former coach the arse.
Meanwhile, over at Collingwood, we can just watch and wonder. We have a quality coach contracted already and he's going to take us to several premierships. |
Yes and I am are going to win tattslotto next week.
Keep that crystal ball polished Tannin!
Buckley has the runs on the board!
Oh - it is not the score board!
It is the side board - every intelligent scribe is jumping off.
Oh well Tannin you know about how to win the flag.
it is easy!
Just chant buuuuccccclllleeeeeeey!
_________________
we don't eat our own at collingwood we just allow them to foul our nest. |
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| 35forever wrote: | @ThePieMind: Oh dear, flawed arguments all over the place! Your circumstantial case that Leading Teams brought success to Syd, Haw, & Geel, is demonstrably no stronger than mine about Buckley & injuries. You have three teams using LT and having success, but not a shred that they were the key,
The coaches of these team have made these claims not me - ROOS has c
onstantly made the link. So my position is completely tenable
I have 3 years of incredible injury numbers beginning when Buckley took over and the fact that soft tissue injuries can be caused by training methods.I also have the distinct possibility that Butters resigned in disgust with Buckley's methods. Further, I am thoroughly convinced that it's not JUST the training methods that caused the injuries, players who are lacking in confidence & happiness are more prone to injury than players with confidence who are happy with their leaders. And PS: the commentators have been talking about our injury list since we started losing and have been suggesting a link to the coaching regime for just as long. The "bad luck" theory loses traction with every week of injuries we suffer. At what point will your mind open to the idea? I'm open to the idea that LT can be successful, I just never thought it suited us. In any event, the idea that your theory is "far more probable" than mine simply doesn't stand close scrutiny.
AT no point have I said there is not an injury problem. Which commentator has said its BUCKLEYS fault- actually none . Its the Sport scientists not Buckley and every commentator has agreed that is the smoking gun, you will find no credible support for your contention, and the rambling rhetoric above provided no evidence that the Sport Scientists are not the cause.
Next, I can't believe we're doing this again, but Daisy did NOT choose to leave, he was pushed,
So all the talk of more money is incorrect? Money had nothing to do with it? I reckon you would find very little support here..
as was Heath Shaw, Shaw came out & said so publicly, Both wanted to be 'pies for life', but were not given that opportunity. Why do I link this to Buckley? Are you serious?
He also said he was not prepared to change his behaviour - so why would we keep him under those circumstances - yes we wanted him but not if he was not prepared to curb his behaviour - that is entirely logical
I The incredibly obvious thing to do in any such occasion is to touch NOTHING. Keep everything as it is and enjoy the ride.
You have no serious support for Buckley keeping an ageing list - he did not withhold the elixir of youth from BJ, Jolly, Didak, Leon etc.
Only a sentimentalist would offer the "no change was needed" as a criticism.
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To suggest that no game plan can work without using the same guys every week is just as illogical.
Its a function of experience and stability - Hawks have done it with injuries because they have 50 more games and 2yr more experience. Please dont be selective in what I have said.
It is FACT if you can be bothered, to check that Flag winners use around 32-35 player as we did in 2010. Why do you ignore this issue of stability?
And then you finish with an absolute howler! If the guys want a coaching change they should deliberately lose games!!!
Mate you made the statement they were not playing for the coach - I simply said that clearly was not the case, and if it was the case then winning as we did last week would not have happened, AND yes its true that continued losses (in the absence of extenuating factors) put pressure on coaches. Sadly players know this and you only need to look at PORT with Primas as the example.
All I am getting is pedantic attempts to discredit my points, or abusive attempts to do the same. Neither will work, they're just the standard rhetorical devices employed by people who know they have no basis in empirical evidence for their own views.
I think you will find that I have provided FACTS where ever possible and examples to support my case - you offer speculation and emotion . I can't answer for the others. You should rightly expect to be challenged and not complain if the responses are fair.
There's simply no reasonable basis for suggesting that the 'succession' plan has been anything but a failure.
There is no succession plan - MM dumped us, and ended the succession plan. So blame MM not ED or BUCKS. There would not have been a succession plan if both parties hadn't agreed.
The PLAN gave us a flag, why don't you give credit to the club accordingly rather than persist with using hindsight as a crutch.
Sure, it's possible things might turnaround with Buckley at the helm, but that's hardly the point. We were NOT told to give Bucks a few years to make us competitive, we were NOT told to expect a 'rebuild', we were distinctly told to expect a continuation of the happy years.
Did the club say these things knowing we would have the worst injury run in living memory? This is not one of your more credible points. May be the club should have given us a list of disclaimers to attach to their statements
The only argument left on the table is whether Buckley's methods have been the cause of our injury woes. If they have then keeping him is idiotic and NOT in the best interest of the club. If Eddie announces a complete change in our training & conditioning methods at the 'big farce.. er, I mean meeting', and the injuries suddenly stop then it becomes virtually impossible NOT to blame Buckley for them.
That is just a completely emotional and unsupportable contention.
So any improvement to injury rate next year will have nothing to do with the Sport Scientist or their changed methods? Find a single person with any credibility to support this absurd contention and I will listen.
I admire your passion, and we actually agree on many things - but its unrealistic for you to expect that shouting the loudest makes you correct on every issue.. |
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| 35forever wrote: | | September Zeros wrote: |
I do agree with about 1% of what you type ........ Unfortunately it's mostly the punctuation.
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Another excellent 1-liner, nice one.
But still no intelligent rebuttal, just the standard ad-hominem rubbish, and it's getting nasty too, this means we're entering the end game.
| Quote: | | It requires a special kind of hubris to imagine that posting the same stuff, over and over again, with no significant factual content or analysis - and at such incredible length - will attract or keep attention, or persuade anyone who doesn't already agree with you. |
How do you know that? The thread has over two and a half thousand views. Did you ask them all? If I re-iterate my central arguments it's because someone attempts, however feebly, to refute them. I don't expect for a second that my writing will affect the outcome for Collingwood, but it's certainly a pressure valve for me after what has been a spectacularly disappointing season. If the rest of you read it or not bothers me neither jot nor tittle, but at heart I know many people believe what I believe. The 'succession' was a cock-up of epic proportions. Nothing like it has been seen in our game or anyone else's. Taken on it's own it’s a spectacular cluster f**k, but seen in the light of Collingwood's last 40 years, it's so absolutely inexplicable, I almost can't believe it really happened.... We did this EXACT same thing in 1995, we dumped a premiership-winning coach to replace him with our much-beloved team champion who had no experience whatsoever. The result? A wooden spoon within three years. On that occasion I thought it was the wrong move to dump Matthews after 9 years, but I also thought Shaw should've gotten more than three seasons, at least until Eddie grabbed us one of the best coaches in the biz. Talk about déja-frikkin'-vu!!!???
So what was the answer last time? And the time before that? And the time before that? Getting a great outside coach. From a mortal enemy. One who is so utterly not-Collingwood it was a shock each time. In the end it's what we'll do again this time, it's just that most of you are prepared to throw 2015 away. You're determined to have another lousy, injury plagued season. I don't know what you're all so worked up about, you're going to get your wish. Sh|t, we're already 2 men down for 2015, our best young hope & the best tagger we've ever had. The chances of Buckley implementing a game plan are already compromised!
D'ya think being in the I-told-you-so position again will bring me a shred of solace? |
Attribution is usually appropriate when you're quoting. |
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HAL
Please don't shout at me - I can't help it.
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
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| Perhaps I am that one. |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| Your Buckley poll thread presently has 4,012 views and it's still running 84% against you. QED. |
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swoop42 
Whatcha gonna do when he comes for you?
Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Location: The 18
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Your Buckley poll thread presently has 4,012 views and it's still running 84% against you. QED. |
In fairness I dare say a lot of people like myself who voted no did so with the caveat that we improve greatly next season.
_________________
He's mad. He's bad. He's MaynHARD! |
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Pies4shaw
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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| I'm one of them, Swoop. No fairness required, just a little balance. |
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Deja Vu
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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Wokko 
Come and take it.
Joined: 04 Oct 2005
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Bob Sugar
Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Location: Benalla
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| Pies4shaw wrote: | | Your Buckley poll thread presently has 4,012 views and it's still running 84% against you. QED. |
Who cares?
Finals 2015 or Buckley goes, and IMO of he has a healthy list for the majority of the year I want more than just finals, if he gets his healthy list and we don't improve leaps and bounds I would consider it a major failure.
_________________
Defender...........
On the day before the first, Daicos created God.
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