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die4pies 
Homeward bound
Joined: 07 Nov 2005
Location: Trenerry Cres.
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| Tannin wrote: | We are looking at possibly the biggest clusterfuckup in coaching history, and if it happens it will happen soon. The board is likely, any time now, to announce the most stupid shoot-yourself-in-the-head coaching move you are likely to see for a long, long time ... when they get rid of an excellent, professional coach with a great record and replace him with a failed, dishonest druggie wonderkid. Essendon, get a clue you tools: give Thompson a contract and give your disgraced former coach the arse.
Meanwhile, over at Collingwood, we can just watch and wonder. We have a quality coach contracted already and he's going to take us to several premierships. |
^^ When you are going to be negative people, do it at other clubs I say.
A post so nice Tannin, I had to quote it twice...
| Tannin wrote: | We are looking at possibly the biggest clusterfuckup in coaching history, and if it happens it will happen soon. The board is likely, any time now, to announce the most stupid shoot-yourself-in-the-head coaching move you are likely to see for a long, long time ... when they get rid of an excellent, professional coach with a great record and replace him with a failed, dishonest druggie wonderkid. Essendon, get a clue you tools: give Thompson a contract and give your disgraced former coach the arse.
Meanwhile, over at Collingwood, we can just watch and wonder. We have a quality coach contracted already and he's going to take us to several premierships. |
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jackcass 
Joined: 01 Mar 2005
Location: Bendigo
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35forever
"I feel sick - dada dada dada da"
Joined: 23 Feb 2005
Location: Physical=Sunshine Coast -- Mental=Vic Park
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Wow! Caught lots of little fishies with that one!!
My sincere thanks to ThePieMind for taking the time to offer an intelligent argument. You raise some great points & I hope you won't mind my rebuttal, or my doing it point by point.
| ThePieMind wrote: | @35 forever.
Your most recent posts criticizing Bucks are full of assumptions.
Your contention that Bucks is to blame for injuries therefore is completely contrary to the facts. |
It's really not, Lets look at 'the facts'. If we're being entirely factual I don't know exactly how Buckley & Co's training & Fitness regimen is causing or promoting injury, however it is a known fact that training in certain ways can predispose an athlete to soft-tissue injury. It is also a fact that we have suffered untenably high injury rates for three seasons. Finally we have the, again, indisputable fact that the current spate of injuries commenced at the same time Buckley took over as Senior coach and implemented his own regimen. A jury would take 5 minutes to convict him.
| Quote: | the media lauded the tactical effort in completely closing down Ports game plan, the Anzac day, and Swans victories are also notable.
I don't recall your concerns with Buckleys tactical ability when we where 8-3.
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That's not a specific example of good coaching, we just played well on those occasions, in particular we brought our famous manic pressure & run. When we do that for 4 quarters (sometimes 3 will do) we will be there at the end. Up until last year that would be enough coz we knew how to win if we were still in it at the end, unfortunately our win rate in the close ones has declined dramatically since 2011. But that's a mental thing & can be fixed - by the right coach. If we still had that ability, that mental toughness to take out the close ones we'd be well inside the 8 right now. But I digress, where are the examples of game-day strategy or clever tactical moves? Besides the examples I offered I'm just hearing crickets. that said I don't believe game day tactics are that big a part of a coaches job, more important by far is his ability to talk to men, listen to them, manage them, and take responsibility for getting them onto the field ready to destroy the oppo. Many people are of the opinion that he doesn't 'have' the players. We just aren't seeing the spirit and fire we were used to under MM. Can Buckley acquire these traits? The majority here think (or hope) he can, and until the end of the 2013 season I had hope that he could. Then he went off at the players after the season ending final, blaming them explicitly and taking no responsibility himself. He lost me right there, and I honestly believe he lost a lot of our players. That became absolutely confirmed on Copeland night when Eddie read the riot act and told everybody that it was Buckley's way or the highway. We were now Buckingwood & anyone who didn’t like it could f*** off. That's just not how you earn the respect and, yes, love of the players. That missing element is what we've seen since. And yes, after 12 rounds I was allowing myself to hope that I'd been mistaken, I promise you I would've given a helluva lot for that to be the case, earlier I thought we were winning on sheer talent alone, but after the West Coast & Saints games I started to hope, I said so here. I also said our season was over after the Footscray game, that really shocked me to my core.
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Its a very simple fact that a stable 22, is the first step in developing a game plan and enabling tactical flexibility. |
Um, no, it's not! It's actually the other way around. Fielding a stable 22 IS a game plan. You could also opt for the "horses for courses' approach, switching players in & out of the side to suit the oppo, weather, or ground. Of course I know what you mean, you're saying that without fit players a coach can't be expected to implement a game plan, and that's true, if you only have one game plan. This is where a good coach adapts to circumstances, a great coach can make a virtue of having to play kids. The only thing Buckley has added to the Malthouse game plan is to bring the ball to the corridor around 50 metres out, other than that it's the same 'zone' game MM pretty much invented. When we are playing our 'manic' game this works great, get the ball inside 50 and lock the door behind it. When we're not playing great this strategy will see you scored against with ridiculous ease. This strategy assigns a 'role' to each player rather than an opponent, that way, provided your side is running like mad, pressuring the ball carrier, spreading fast when we get a turnover, and being switched on when we don't have the pill, it doesn't matter as much which players you have on a given day, you just assign someone to each role. What it does require is a side who are confident, full of beans, and giving their all. A good coach would ensure every man fits that bill by having 22 guys who would run into the mouth of hell to please him. The signs that you don't have that are blindingly obvious: Lack of run, anxiety in front of goal, patchy, spasmodic play, poor disposal, etc etc. Any coach can tell you that, & it's precisely how we've played all season, especially since Round 12.
| Quote: | So therefore experience, is a further requirement for a implementing a game plan, and providing tactical flexibility. Kids can’t be asked to play a new role when they are yet to completely understand their first.
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Well, they can actually. It's not like we're playing kids totally out of position, backs are playing back and forwards are playing forward. Apart from a few truly specialist roles (such as Caff & Goldy play), a forward should know all forward roles and backs likewise. Mids should simply get the damn pill, just like JT did so brilliantly on Saturday. That's if you're playing a zone of course, otherwise it's just a matter of staying with your man and stopping him getting it when they have the ball and getting the hell away from him when you have it. It's true that experience is important, and a lack of experienced players can certainly affect a side's ability to follow a game plan, but it just doesn't explain the wild fluctuation in our performances. If you were to plot out our scores on a graph along with our opposition's scores it looks like the mood chart of a psychopath (yes, I did it, hey, I was bored). Further, the loss of experienced players should correlate at least somewhat with our performance. It doesn't. We had crappy games with most of our list fit and great performances (like last Saturday), with half the side in Prince Henry's. If we had a consistently poor performance like StKilda I'd suggest the problem was physiological, obviously it follows that an up & down season indicates a psychological problem, unless the ups and downs correspond to injuries.
| Quote: | We slipped backwards when we lost Clement, Licuria, Brodie Holland, Obree, Wakelin, Prestigious, Burns etc. over a short period.
Why do you not acknowledge that this now a significant issue that could be contributing factor to our recent losing streak, and not Bucks? |
Sorry to be contradicting you so often, but we didn't slip backwards when we lost those guys, they all retired during our best period in 40 years. That's because the whole club was functioning beautifully. Hine & co were recruiting the best kids, Butters & co were developing them into stars, and Mick & co were managing their onfield & psychological needs.
This - and this is hugely important - is why simply swapping Bucks for Bomber is unlikely to get us back on top quickly unless there's a concurrent review of all the areas of the football department, I'm thinking of the fitness & conditional staff & the assistant coaches. Of course this is where the wags will make puns about Bomber bringing in his favourite drug dealer etc. yes, it's very funny but I don't think anyone seriously thinks Bomber had much to do with that business. he was fined because it happened on his watch, but if there's anyone who is not going to even think about bringing anyone even slightly suspect in it's Bomber Thompson.
Collingwood was firing on all cylinders a few years ago, it shouldn't take too much to get us back on top, just a shift in attitudes to get us off our current trajectory.
I am not, and have never been an anti-Buckley person, and in my 9 years here I've never bitched about a player or coach, mostly I've defended them from often vicious attacks. What I AM is Pro-Collingwood. It seems pretty obvious to me that certain things need to be done to get us back on top, and I want those things done sooner rather than later. The story of our last forty odd years has been one of outside people coming in and propelling us to the top. Every time it's happened it's brought success and every time we've hired club champions as coach it's brought failure. Doesn't that make it pretty obvious what our next move should be?
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"The pies are going to the big dance!"-P.Daicos 2010
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September Zeros
Joined: 04 Oct 2012
Location: Behind you
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Is there an abstract 35?
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No Pressure, No Diamonds
They used to be a happy team at hawthorn.
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AN_Inkling
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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The time to get another coach is when you no longer have one. We made the mistake of shopping for a coach when our cupboard was already stocked before, let's not do it again.
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Well done boys! |
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uncanny
Joined: 04 Mar 2014
Location: Castlemaine
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don't worry about bomber Thompson
or anyone else for now
stick with bucks
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Pies4shaw 
pies4shaw
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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You'd think the guy would give up when his "vote to get rid of Buckley now" thread resulted in a landslide the other way. But, apparently not.
The only really persuasive case I can see for sacking Buckley is that it might quiet the toddlers for a bit and let us have Nick's back. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| Tannin wrote: | We are looking at possibly the biggest clusterfuckup in coaching history, and if it happens it will happen soon. The board is likely, any time now, to announce the most stupid shoot-yourself-in-the-head coaching move you are likely to see for a long, long time ... when they get rid of an excellent, professional coach with a great record and replace him with a failed, dishonest druggie wonderkid. Essendon, get a clue you tools: give Thompson a contract and give your disgraced former coach the arse.
Meanwhile, over at Collingwood, we can just watch and wonder. We have a quality coach contracted already and he's going to take us to several premierships. |
I disagree, it may be equal biggest clusterfuckup in coaching history. We'll know soon enough I guess.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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Flashman
Joined: 11 Aug 2007
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All this talk of coaching clusterfucks and which one is bigger.
Nothing will ever, ever beat the Norm Smith sacking in 1965 (when Melbourne were reigning premiers) as the biggest coaching clustercluck in VFL/AFL history.
Melbourne didn't make the finals for 22 years afterwards and still haven't won a premiership since and will lucky to still be a club in the form we know it if things don't turn around in the next decade.
The soul was ripped out of that place right then and has seldom been seen there since. |
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Piesnchess
piesnchess
Joined: 09 Jun 2008
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Seeing pretty boy hird back at essendoper land gives me great glee, no way will bomber stay around, and hes done a damn fine job too. Essendoper has just made a monstrous clustercluck coachng decision, it will have far reaching ramifications for the Bummers. LOL.
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Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich.
Chess and Vodka are born brothers. - Russian proverb. |
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Damien 
Me Noah & Flynn @ the G
Joined: 21 Jan 1999
Location: Croydon Vic
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| Tannin wrote: | We are looking at possibly the biggest clusterfuckup in coaching history, and if it happens it will happen soon. The board is likely, any time now, to announce the most stupid shoot-yourself-in-the-head coaching move you are likely to see for a long, long time ... when they get rid of an excellent, professional coach with a great record and replace him with a failed, dishonest druggie wonderkid. Essendon, get a clue you tools: give Thompson a contract and give your disgraced former coach the arse.
Meanwhile, over at Collingwood, we can just watch and wonder. We have a quality coach contracted already and he's going to take us to several premierships. |
I would also like to highly endorse your comments Tannin. Excellently put; Except for the bit about getting rid of Hird. They deserve each other. I feel for Bomber but take comfort in the fact that golden boy will set them back whilst Bomber would have had them in position A for a serious title shot next year.
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'Collingwood are the Bradmans of Football'
The Herald - 1930 |
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RudeBoy
Joined: 28 Nov 2005
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| AN_Inkling wrote: | | The time to get another coach is when you no longer have one. We made the mistake of shopping for a coach when our cupboard was already stocked before, let's not do it again. |
Incorrect Inky. We made the decision after our coach had had 10 years to win us a flag and when his health was failing. That decision alone focused MM to move to finally (after 10 $£$%^%%$ years) recruit a strong bodied ruckman in Jolly. That delivered us a flag and allowed us to bring in Buckley to coach us for the next 10-15 years. Apart from MM's childish tantrums, it has been a perfect transition and I believe we are now headed for sustained long term success. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | The time to get another coach is when you no longer have one. We made the mistake of shopping for a coach when our cupboard was already stocked before, let's not do it again. |
Incorrect Inky. We made the decision after our coach had had 10 years to win us a flag and when his health was failing. That decision alone focused MM to move to finally (after 10 $£$%^%%$ years) recruit a strong bodied ruckman in Jolly. That delivered us a flag and allowed us to bring in Buckley to coach us for the next 10-15 years. Apart from MM's childish tantrums, it has been a perfect transition and I believe we are now headed for sustained long term success. |
10-15 years... heaven help us!!!
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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think positive 
Side By Side
Joined: 30 Jun 2005
Location: somewhere
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| RudeBoy wrote: | | AN_Inkling wrote: | | The time to get another coach is when you no longer have one. We made the mistake of shopping for a coach when our cupboard was already stocked before, let's not do it again. |
Incorrect Inky. We made the decision after our coach had had 10 years to win us a flag and when his health was failing. That decision alone focused MM to move to finally (after 10 $£$%^%%$ years) recruit a strong bodied ruckman in Jolly. That delivered us a flag and allowed us to bring in Buckley to coach us for the next 10-15 years. Apart from MM's childish tantrums, it has been a perfect transition and I believe we are now headed for sustained long term success. |
Beautifully said, and said in such a short space!
I love the way people rewrite history re the MM thing. How quickly those 10 years of waiting were forgiven and forgotten with the holy grail!
(We need a new rule, if your gunna write an essay post, you have to put a short summary in brackets, so we don't have to read all the bullshit. Seriously though, where do people find the time?)
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You cant fix stupid, turns out you cant quarantine it either! |
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Albert Parker
Joined: 13 Dec 2012
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I wouldn't mind seeing Bomber brought in as a senior assistant. Suspect the personal style might be a lot different to Bucks but it just might work.
Still think Davoren is the coaching staff member we should move on. Apparently he's safe though before we complete a season which has recently moved even more rapidly downhill with soft tissue injuries. Amazing.
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One team, one dream - the Pies and this year's premiership |
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