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qldmagpie67
Joined: 18 Dec 2008
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This thread started as a "get bomber now" but has turned into anti bucks thread like so many.
Rightly or wrongly Bucks will get 2015. While this will make some happy and others mad it won't change so everyone needs to understand that and get used to it.
Now back to the original topic.
Bomber Thompson is a premiership winning coach and player an undoubted pedigree for someone you would consider hiring into your football department.
All this talk of not replacing assistant coaches because of the new tax is ludicrous from Eddie and he club if that's what's going to happen.
The biggest club in the land is trying to save money by lessening the experience and guidance around the young playing group to save money.
It's a false economy success brings members, tickets sales, increased merchandise sales, additional sponsors and other opportunities.
By not providing every possible assistance to the young player in terms of coaching, development and mentoring this hinders there potential development and realistically under mines the whole excerise of rejuvenating our list.
We should be saying to hell with the tax lets do what's best for the club and it's members/supporters and worry about the new tax when it becomes a financial issue. Let's remember Eddie has agreed on this tax so why now risk any chance of success by penny pinching
Now back to bomber
Last night I listened to Heppell speak on bomber and he said and I quote "his hands on coaching made a huge difference to my mind set on the game"
Now like it or not Heppell has improved dramatically over the past 2 seasons and is it coindence that's the term of bombers return to Essendon ?
He is a very deep thinker on the game and much of his theories have been honed through experience which is IMO the key factor.
Essendon want him to stay nothing surer as they are fully aware a young inexperienced coach has many lessons to learn.
I doubt he will be coaxed away to be an assistant anywhere and currently we don't have a head coach vacancy.
Would love his experience on our coaching panel but it won't happen.
Just for the record I see bomber coaching again and I reckon it will be the suns at the end of next season if bluey doesn't get them into the second week of the finals. They are primed for a big tilt and his experience might just be the difference. |
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The Boy Who Cried Wolf
Joined: 26 Sep 2013
Location: We prefer free speech - you know it's right
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| E wrote: | | 35forever wrote: | First let me say that my "anti-Buckley" poll was never intended to show that everyone wanted to get rid of him, I was fully aware that the majority want to keep him, that's pretty obvious, I just wanted to see what the split was so it can be compared to other data sets, like the one I plan to run in mid-2015 when we'll be on the edge of the 8 and having pretty much the same year we had in 2014.
How do I know next year won't see any great improvement? Simple really, if you change nothing then nothing will change. We'll have the same coaches, the same training staff, though quite a few different players. (That's been Buckley's style from day 1, blame the players.) Having watched the game for several decades you get to know how it works, and history has consistently proven the best tool for forecasting future trends & events. Sides which are having problems have very few tools at their disposal to turn things around. The biggest & most effective of these is turning coaches over. Many times I've seen a side turn it's fortunes around by swapping coaches, in several of these cases the old coach really wasn't the problem. Sometimes there's nothing at all wrong with their coaching, but in this game perception is everything. This is a lesson Collingwood - and many of it's supporters - seem unwilling to learn. We've all seen how the mental aspect of the game can affect results, it happens several times each round, in fact it can happen several times in a game. One of the most famous was Jezza's speccy in the 1970 GF. A mark which hurt every one of us alive at the time. A happier one was Heath Shaw's spoil on Riewoldt in 2010, or Terry Daniher's foolish hit on 'Rowdy' Brown in 1990. On a smaller scale I've seen a judiciously timed free kick turn a game time & time again, seldom in Collingwood's favour. At the high end of the scale we've seen a newly appointed coach cause an upset win in his first match, and we've seen the great coaches turn a side's fortunes in the space of a couple of seasons.
This doesn't mean the new coach is especially gifted, or even better than the old one, but it does mean the players believe he has a magic formula for winning and believe in his leadership completely.
Our players won't attain the heights their ability deserves until they believe that the coach is infallible. When that happens the players don't have to worry about anything except playing their best footy, and they generally do. But again, it's not the brilliance of the coach which makes the difference, it's the perception the players have. For that reason the best coach can fail, and the worst can succeed.
That's why I urged sticking with Buckley and getting behind him until the end of 2013. That was when I realised that he'd lost the players. When that happens a team will fail until something changes. It's possible that the change might come in some other way, maybe Bucks will totally change his approach and become someone the players believe in. It's not impossible! But it is unlikely. I believe he's too invested in the rightness of his methods. If so only his removal will see us back where we belong, but not if it's left too late. I believe that the time was now, and we've let it pass. Eddie has too much invested in his favourite to make the change.
Does anyone here seriously believe we could be flag contenders in 2015? Really? Or are you all just of the view that "we'll give him one more year"
All that view can possibly do is waste another season. For the youngsters here that may be no biggie, but some of us know there's only so many seasons, and tossing one away is seriously criminal.
But don't take my word, go look at history, look at the winning sides, look at the losing sides, look at the sides who've turned their fortunes around. You'll see patterns emerge. |
2 counterpoints to that argument -
Number 1. the Cats in 04/05/06 were having their share of problems. there was a belief it was the coaches faults, players were not playing to their potential and they kept missing the finals. Instead of firing the coach, they stayed the course, identified weaknesses in their list and addressed them (ottens for one), recruited another a-grader in Selwood and helped the coach improve as a coach as he developed his own team. We know what happened next to Bomber and his men.
Number 2. Collingwood in 05/06. Mick had overseen the creation of and then destruciton of a GF worthy team and we were back down the bottom. We stayed the course, addressed our weaknesses through the father/son and two drafts in a row and then saw a jump to the second rung of the ladder in 07/08.
Number 3. Pies looked like they had peaked in 08/09. their best looked just below the best of Geelong and St.Kilda and it looked like we were no shot at a flag. Malthouse was done and everyone wanted him sacked. we know how that story ends.
Things change pretty quickly. I am almost certain we wont feel the same in 12 months time. there is an unknown quantity about our list. Sometimes, one extra pre-season is all it takes from being a team that competes well for 10 weeks (as we did this year from round 2-11) to a team that competes for the entire season. |
Must admit, the list IS looking somewhat interesting (without the injuries), but to be honest... I've been feeling the same way for almost 3 years now. We'll see come 12 more months... or less even.
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All Aboard!! Choo Choo!!! |
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ThePieMind
Joined: 11 Apr 2009
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| 35forever wrote: |
Honestly, the rest is just more of the same, childish semantics and unrelated factoids mean nothing, it's among the poorest attempts at rebuttal I've ever read, sorry, none of it is worth my time. I think anyone reading will agree, however regretfully |
Ah - I really have hit a nerve. You actually expect that your emotional rhetoric will sail through without challenge - you are mistaken.
I too would concede having failed to provide facts to support arguments that:
- Bucks caused injuries
- changing coaches is a proven formula for success
or provide FACTS to rebutt
- supporting the incumbent works
- sport scientists not Bucks are the cause of injuries.
You are verbose, pugnacious and truculent, but sadly incapable of providing a factual basis for your arguments. Emotion is no substitute for logical debate, and therefore, it may be best if you retire to the fire place and ponder the plight of our great club IN SILENCE. |
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Breadcrawl
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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Geez you are all so mean to 35.
It isn't his fault that he can see the situation clearly and no one else can.
We're the afflicted ones, why are we taking it out on him?
It is obvious that we should sack the winning coach of the ANZAC day game this year, and appoint the losing coach from that game.
Der.
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they can smell what we're cookin' |
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SuperSwede
Joined: 05 Aug 2014
Location: Stockholm
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| 35forever wrote: | Superswede:
As for re-builds, I'm not sure there is such a thing. |
I can see now why you maintain that re-builds never work (at Collingwood), after all if there is no such thing, I guess you can’t expect it to work.
I suppose we can argue until we’re blue in the face about the 2011 team – this I have no intention of doing. Suffice it to say that in 2010 we delivered big time when it mattered ( i.e. in the finals ) which we didn’t do in 2011. We opened up a lead in the GF in the 2:d quarter, but just couldn’t hang on.
It seems to me that we are looking at the same facts but drawing rather different conclusions. That’s OK it happens every day. One of your conclusions seems to be that we most likely would have won in 2011 if not for the succession plan. And maybe this is so, but it is something which we will never know, so it can only be conjecture. After all the sporting world is full if such instances – if so and so had not happened then the result would have been totally different. But at the end of the day only the facts remain. And they are what they are. For mine a perhaps more unpalatable reason for our loss in 2011 but a simpler and more logical one was that we simply were beaten by a better team on the day.
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Hating Carlton makes my Life worthwhile |
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